I don't know nearly as much as I think I do . . .

[Marathoner]

2 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Amen!  I do struggle with patience (and especially if I've had too much caffeine).  And I've been seeing recently that often what I'm impatient about is regarding something I have a strength in, but the other person doesn't.  I can get irritated when someone doesn't get the directions I'm giving or see what I'm telling them.  To me it's so very obvious (because of a strength of mine), but they don't get it as quickly as I think they should.

The root of this I think is pride. (in fact I suspect the Lord has put me with those who don't have these particular strengths as I do, so I can learn/experience that I just need to simply die to myself, in order that His life can live through me in these situations!)

Have you ever considered the possibility that what you're dealing with isn't a weakness someone else is suffering from --- and a subsequent impatience with this perceived weakness in another --- but rather, that you might be opinionated instead? 

Impatience with others who don't agree with our opinion on a matter is symptomatic of holding our own opinion in high regard. Think about that. 

[Vine Abider]

15 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Have you ever considered the possibility that what you're dealing with isn't a weakness someone else is suffering from --- and a subsequent impatience with this perceived weakness in another --- but rather, that you might be opinionated instead? 

Impatience with others who don't agree with our opinion on a matter is symptomatic of holding our own opinion in high regard. Think about that. 

No, I get that.  I am speaking about something I know I have an edge in - an inherent talent, not an opinion.  For instance things like visualizing 3D things quickly; seeing the big picture; engineering/mechanical workings & details; navigation.  These are things I didn't learn so much as I just have an innate aptitude in them.

(but of course, also opinionated . . . and very humble too)

[Marathoner]

1 minute ago, Vine Abider said:

No, I get that.  I am speaking about something I know I have an edge in, and inherent talent, not an opinion.  For instance things like visualizing 3D things quickly; seeing the big picture; engineering/mechanical workings & details; navigation.  These are things I didn't learn so much as I just have an innate aptitude in them.

Gotcha. That's a different matter. 

[AnOrangeCat]

6 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

But we shelfed that and fellowshipped about how the important thing was to major on the majors; that is things like one Lord, one Spirit, one faith . . . and to have love for each other; and another thing that kept coming up was displaying His patience for one other. 

This is pretty important. By all means correct when there's an error on the major and stand against false doctrines when needed. There are so many different takes on various Biblical matters that I think it's basically a given that none of us have it 100% right. No need to tear into each other over things like what Paul called debatable matters.

[Vine Abider]

13 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

This is pretty important. By all means correct when there's an error on the major and stand against false doctrines when needed. There are so many different takes on various Biblical matters that I think it's basically a given that none of us have it 100% right. No need to tear into each other over things like what Paul called debatable matters.

Yes, and you bring up a good point.  There's the "majors," what one might call the core items of our faith.  Things like salvation by faith in Christ alone.  The deity of Christ.  The resurrection . . . and just a few other things.

The next level then is the "false doctrines" and I think that's where things get blurred a little - how much to contend for these things?  I've been thinking about that some.

For instance, the OSAS argument may fall into that category, as eternal salvation is pretty doggone important, but I don't know that it's a core item (and on Worthy, it's not in the foundational statements).  But the question is, how much to do in that area?  I think you used a good word:  "stand." Take a stand in love, but don't attack.  And then let it go and let the Spirit operate as He sees fit (the Spirit may actually work in our heart too, to correct something unknown)

 

[Dennis1209]

My secular definition of learning and being patient, my training ground, being married for 43 years. Do not think I am disparaging my wife, but she sometimes tries my patience to the limit.

One of hundreds of examples: Her car will not start, oh woe is me, DENNIS!!!!

Keep in mind my wife has zero electrical or mechanical knowledge and experience. I began troubleshooting the electrical system and components with a volt meter. Dennis, did you check the radiator? Dennis, could it be this or that? Dennis, did you check the horn? Why don’t you do this or that, when will you be done, blah, blah, blah… (my micromanager)

I do not know how many nerves I have, but it feels like she sometimes reaches the very last one. Patience is not saying out loud what you are thinking. The Bible has much to say about that little member of Fire the Tongue, blessing and cursing.

As with no second chances for a first impression, words from the tongue cannot be taken back once spoken, contrary to popular opinion.

So, to maintain peace, harmony, and tranquility, it is yeas Dear, no Dear, yes Mam, and no Mam. 😊

Having different exegetical views than some on this forum, I endeavor to exercise brotherly love, sometimes biting my tongue. I constantly remind myself, would I be saying and acting like this in church face to face, or would Jesus approve?

Good discussion Vine. 

[AnOrangeCat]

14 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

The next level then is the "false doctrines" and I think that's where things get blurred a little - how much to contend for these things?  I've been thinking about that some.

For instance, the OSAS argument may fall into that category, as eternal salvation is pretty doggone important, but I don't know that it's a core item (and on Worthy, it's not in the foundational statements).  But the question is, how much to do in that area?  I think you used a good word:  "stand." Take a stand in love, but don't attack.  And then let it go and let the Spirit operate as He sees fit (the Spirit may actually work in our heart too, to correct something unknown)

Good questions. My own typical rule of thumb is to not go any further than 3-4 exchanges with someone on a topic when I disagree. That seems to be enough to share perspectives, show relevant scriptural references, and try to refute anything that seems in error. More than that it feels like it's going around in circles and taxes my patience. Others have different tolerance limits though.

I agree with you about OSAS. It's certainly important but our stance on it doesn't really change much. Both camps acknowledge important things like the divinity of Jesus, His sacrifice on the cross, God's love for us, the authenticity of scripture, and so on. Even in the OSAS camp you don't really see people saying we should continue to deliberately live in sin. While I don't personally believe in OSAS I can at least see where they're coming from scripturally. I think that's a really important factor when it comes to these matters.

[Vine Abider]

6 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

Good questions. My own typical rule of thumb is to not go any further than 3-4 exchanges with someone on a topic when I disagree. That seems to be enough to share perspectives, show relevant scriptural references, and try to refute anything that seems in error. More than that it feels like it's going around in circles and taxes my patience. Others have different tolerance limits though.

I agree with you about OSAS. It's certainly important but our stance on it doesn't really change much. Both camps acknowledge important things like the divinity of Jesus, His sacrifice on the cross, God's love for us, the authenticity of scripture, and so on. Even in the OSAS camp you don't really see people saying we should continue to deliberately live in sin. While I don't personally believe in OSAS I can at least see where they're coming from scripturally. I think that's a really important factor when it comes to these matters.

I liked what you said in both paragraphs!

[Starise]

But, But.........what if I'm right?

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

But, But.........what if I'm right?

Even if I'm right, it doesn't mean I know very much . . .