A Concern for Applying the Bible to the Natural Sciences

[RV_Wizard]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:29 PM, Scott Free said:

 As our empirical understanding grows, it becomes evident the strict literal interpretation is preposterous ...

Do you know what's even more preposterous?  The notion that the dead can be brought back to life.  That happens not once or twice, but ten times in the Bible.  If one didn't know Jesus Christ personally, that book could not be believed.

[RV_Wizard]

8 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

By definition, it requires a sun. 

How many suns do you have in your home to light up the rooms?  In your world, light only comes from the sun, so you must have your own personal suns.  Does your car have two suns in the front to light up the night or four?  Do you have a flash-sun if the lights go out?  How is it that you have no understanding of something so simple?

8 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

But you and your fellow objectors aren't very credible, compared to people like Augustine. 

Augustine was a heretic who taught things not found in the Bible.  I gave you a list.  Do you need a refresher?  Of course you would find camaraderie with Augustine.  He "did not hesitate to ridicule the doctrines of the Church and especially the Old Testament Scriptures."  Neither do you.  Your entire reason to be here is to attack the validity of the Scriptures and to distort what is written to suit your own twisted beliefs.

9 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The Black Sea is not Turkey.

The Black Sea is not in any country.  Countries border the Black Sea.  The mountains of Ararat are in Turkey, which is where Noah ended up.  Regardless, considering that water from the Black Sea can find its way to the coast of Georgia, your claim of a local flood makes less sense than a screen door on a submarine.

If you had read the Bible with the comprehension of a nine year old, you would probably  be aware that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 do not have different accounts of creation.  Genesis 2 is entirely about the creation of man and begins on day 6. 

There is no mention of how long it took Adam to name all the animals, nor of how long it took before Eve was created.  Subsequently, there is no mention of how long they were in the Garden of Eden.  It does mention that Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born.  After the fall from grace, Adam and Even had Cain, then Able, and an unknown number of children not mentioned.  It does say Adam lived a total of 930 years.

 

[Scott Free]

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Do you know what's even more preposterous?  The notion that the dead can be brought back to life.

The individual(s) that established the creation stories witnessed Babel and its mythos that united humanity. It is my opinion that we are reading a God inspired reimagining of those myths, a sanctified version for the Israelites to consume. Equating this with our Gospel of Faith is repulsive to me.

Edited February 21, 2024 by Scott Free

[The Barbarian]

By definition, mornings require a sun.

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

How many suns do you have in your home to light up the rooms?

Just the one that shows up in the east every morning.   In your world, any light must comes from a sun, so you must have your own personal suns.  Does your car have two suns in the front to light up the night or four?  Do you have a flash-sun if the lights go out?  How is it that you have no understanding of something so simple?

But you and your fellow objectors aren't very credible, compared to people like Augustine. 

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Augustine was a heretic

His writings influenced the development of Western philosophy and Western Christianity, and he is viewed as one of the most important Church Fathers of the Latin Church in the Patristic Period. His many important works include The City of God, On Christian Doctrine, and Confessions.

Augustine is recognized as a saint in the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Lutheran churches, and the Anglican Communion. He is also a preeminent Catholic Doctor of the Church and the patron of the Augustinians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo

Perhaps one of you is, but it isn't Augustine.    You seem to have no other reason to be here, but to attack the validity of the scriptures.

(RV Wizard objects to the evidence for the flood of Noah)

The Black Sea is not Turkey.   But if  one proceeds south from the Black Sea, he ends up in...... wait for it.... Mesopotamia.

No coincidence, I think.   Why not just give up and let it be God's way?

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

The Black Sea is not in any country.  Countries border the Black Sea.  The mountains of Ararat are in Turkey

No.   Mt. Ararat (which was only named so in medieval times) is in Turkey.   The Mountains of Ararat are in Armenia.   You've been fooled by modern revisions to scripture.

If you had read the Bible without your ideological blinders, you would probably  be aware that Genesis 2 says that the Heavens and the Earth were created in one day.

Let go of your own desires, and just let it be God's way.

 

[FJK]

1 hour ago, Scott Free said:

The individual(s) that established the creation stories witnessed Babel and its mythos that united humanity. It is my opinion that we are reading a God inspired reimagining of those myths, a sanctified version for the Israelites to consume. Equating this with our Gospel of Faith is repulsive to me.

Jesus was a Jew, a Rabbi as such, what did he say about these reimagined myths?

[Scott Free]

49 minutes ago, FJK said:

Jesus was a Jew, a Rabbi as such, what did he say about these reimagined myths?

I say they are a thorough revision of ancient myths, because, we now have the cuneiform of the era showing the Israelites and Babylonians shared a similar creation story framework. This causes a problem witnessing when associating them with the Good News of the Gospels. The creation stories were the ancient Jewish faith before the written word of the Bible and the Prophets.

Edited February 21, 2024 by Scott Free

[Scott Free]

33 minutes ago, Scott Free said:

Jesus was a Jew, a Rabbi as such, what did he say about these reimagined myths?

Jesus had high regard for the creation stories. Just because we are beyond the Old Testament in glory does not mean we disregard it, we simply know God's agency better and see the information they lacked. Just as the Bible Prophets out shine the era of Babel and those after the Resurrection will out shine us in our understanding. All of it is necessary for our edification. Even when God is catering to our ignorance, the lessons He teaches are timeless .

[FJK]

1 hour ago, Scott Free said:

Jesus had high regard for the creation stories. Just because we are beyond the Old Testament in glory does not mean we disregard it, we simply know God's agency better and see the information they lacked. Just as the Bible Prophets out shine the era of Babel and those after the Resurrection will out shine us in our understanding. All of it is necessary for our edification. Even when God is catering to our ignorance, the lessons He teaches are timeless .

That sounds a bit like a religion about Jesus than about the teachings he brought us.  It also seems a bit secularized in nature, assuming that Jesus had only limited knowledge of the world based on the knowledge of his times and we know more now since we have progressed beyond the limited knowledge he had.

I'll believe that, fully believe it, if someone can do what he said we can do, which are all the things he did and more.

But that's only what he said, not something we actually believe, so we don't have to look at the fault being within ourselves and can place it on something else outside of us instead.

[RV_Wizard]

8 hours ago, Scott Free said:

It is my opinion that we are reading a God inspired reimagining of those myths, a sanctified version for the Israelites to consume. 

It is my opinion that that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.  Rejecting the Scriptures in deference to an ungodly alternative theory of origin is repulsive to me.

[RV_Wizard]

On 2/21/2024 at 2:41 PM, FJK said:

It also seems a bit secularized in nature, assuming that Jesus had only limited knowledge of the world based on the knowledge of his times and we know more now since we have progressed beyond the limited knowledge he had.

Why would anyone assume that Jesus, who walked in the Garden of Eden and spoke with Adam and Eve, would have more limited knowledge about the creation of the world than we have?  Can anyone cite questions that Jesus couldn't answer?  The only thing He didn't know is the moment of His return, because that is known only to the Father.  Beyond that, that which is known to the Father is known to the Son.  

Rejecting the word of God is foolishness, not wisdom.

Edited February 23, 2024 by RV_Wizard