Seventieth Week?Seven Year Tribulation

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Suzanne,

Lots of good verses.

To each season there is a fulness - when the grapes are ripe, the apple and orange blossoms have turned into fruit. When planting begins and harvest is completed. There is a time for every season and a "fulness" therein. The fulness of Christ took place at the cross when He said "It is finished", the time was "full" up, all that He was purposed to do, He did. We are now in the age of the gentiles, but more than that we are in the age when the Kingdom of God has become universal, it is not confined to a small piece of parched land at the crossroads of the world. It has not reached its "fulness" yet. All the gentiles who are going to be saved are not yet all saved. For certain, all the Jews who are ever going to be saved have not yet received their "fulness". Ultimately the "fulness" will be reached through Christ Jesus by both Jew and Gentile. There is no other way. Either we belong to the true Olive Tree, or we remain wild olives or broken off branches as in the case of the Jews.

I have a Bing Cherry tree in my front yard. When it first bore cherries, I was surprised that on one side of the tree was Bing Cherries, but on the other side of the tree are Queen Anne Cherries. I didn't find this out till later, but they need each other to produce fruit. Ever year they produce both wonderful kinds of cherries and from the looks of the tree, it is ONLY ONE tree, but branches were grafted in when it was young so that they would always be able to cross polinate. Wonderful concept, and I see that concept in the Kingdom of God. Until we see the "fulness" of both Jew and Gentile, neither of us will reach the fruitfulness that God has intended for us. OH WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY THAT WILL BE!

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[tsth]

What a beautiful picture Dad Ernie, and again we are in agreement, but I believe what Dr. Luke speaks of and what I am speaking of is a different kind of fullness.

There are different types of fullness within the Scriptures. One pertains to the whole world and all of time, and one pertains to each of us as Christians, and the power of the Lord and His fullness dwelling within us, which is why John 1:6 was the first of the passages I posted.

John 1:16

And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.

:il:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest shadow2b]

HEyyyyyyyy thaR--WeLL my comment MAY just send shockwaves thru the churchworld--at least on this topic & my {opinion??} of the great BIBLE commentators---ahhhhhhh well--so-be-it-First let me state {MY opinion??}on the BIBLE

[BlindSeeker]

Dear Gary,

I was never in the least bit offended by anything you had written . . . nor was it my intent to offend you.

I did not think that you were addressing me in particular when you addressed

[Guest shadow2b]

Dear Gary,

I was never in the least bit offended by anything you had written . . . nor was it my intent to offend you.

I did not think that you were addressing me in particular when you addressed

[BlindSeeker]

WeLL William I "SEE" i did {IT} again-----MISunderstood---OOOOOppppppSSssssssss----- ------------

any ideas on HOW I do that so regularly?? STU-PID-It-ITY perhaps?? IS there any chance this stupidittity coud be genetic????? i hope-i hope-i-hope---?? :suspect: ---- AHHhhhhhhhh--weLL this too shall pass shant-------- Itttt????------GOD-BLESS- BRO.----{Gary}

Peace my friend

[wordsower]

This is what makes sense to me, from my notes, all of it is not mine, I study and search and consider and make up notes of everything and this is the compilation of all of that:

Daniel was praying over Israel and got the message from Gabriel about the 70 weeks. He understood that Israel was about to come out of their 70 year captivity (Dan. 9:2, Jer. 25:11,12)

Weeks - H7620 sha^bu^a sha^bu^a shebu^a^h shaw-boo'-ah, shaw-boo'-ah, sheb-oo-aw' Properly passive participle of H7650 as a denominative of H7651; literally sevened, that is, a week (specifically of years): - seven, week.

Therefore they are weeks of years, and "seventy weeks" in turn then makes up four hundred and ninety years; within which time, beginning from a date after mentioned, all the things prophesied were accomplished. Other passages where weeks represents 7 years - Gen 29:27, 28; Lev 25:8. The Bible lays a year out as a period of 360 days. ( Gen 7:11,24: Gen 8:3-4; Rev 12:6,14; and Rev 13:5. )

Dan 9:25 sets the start point of beginning of the 70 weeks at the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem. There were three commands to rebuild the Temple and or Jerusalem given in that time period. The first command was given circa 536BC to Ezra by Cyrus (Ezra 1:1) to rebuild the temple, the second command was also to Ezra by Artaxerxes (Ezra 7:1) giving Ezra authority in the temple and the finances to furnish it. The third command was given to Nehemiah by Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem and the wall (Neh 2:1-8).

When compared to Dan 9:25 it becomes apparent which decree is being referred to, it is the decree by Artaxerxes to Nehemiah to rebuild the walls and Jerusalem. For Dan 9:25 does not call for the rebuilding of the Temple (which was to Ezra), but again it was to Nehemiah to rebuild Jerusalem.

This gives us the start point of the 70 weeks "in the 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes". So the next question is when did Artaxerxes start his reign. Looking it up it varies a little but it gives a range of dates around 465BC. When is 20 years into his reign? Around 445 BC. Now, let's look at the time periods Daniel lays out in Dan 9:25.

First the 7 week period which we know is 49 years. Multiply that by 360 (since we're converting from Jewish Prophetic to Western) and divide by 365 (to get to Western years) and you get 48.3 years.

Now do the same for the 62 week period and you get 428.05 years (434 x 360 then divide by 365).

Add those together and you get the total WESTERN time for the 69 weeks which is 476.4 years. Now take 30 ( the approximate time of Christ's crucifixion) and subtract 476.4 and you get 446.4 BC. Now keep that in mind and lets compare it as follows:

Let's start with the crucifixion of Christ at AD 33 (the end of the 62 weeks portion) Dan 9:26 -"And after 62 weeks the Messiah shall be cut off but not for Himself" and we start backing up 428.05 years (the 62 weeks) and this brings us to 397 BC. Go back now the additional 48.3 years (the 7 weeks) Dan 9:25 that brings us back to 445.3 BC. Who was King in 445 BC? Artaxerxes was. Now look at Neh 2:1-8 and what does it say? In the twentieth year of Artaxerxes reign (Neh 2:1) comes the decree.

Granted this isn't accounting for leap years and such in the western calendar but it does give us a pretty accurate timeline.

So if Artaxerxes decreed the rebuilding of Jersalem to Nehemiah and he went forth to build it. That is the start of the 70 weeks of Daniel.

This puts the end of the 69th week at the crucifixion of Christ.

In Dan 9:25 the time period is broken into two parts, the first 7 weeks (49 years) which relates to the time from the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem and it's walls to it's completion and then the second part is 62 weeks (434 years) which describes the length of time from the completion of Jerusalem until Christ is crucified in Dan 9:26 (a further description is provided in that verse)

Of note in Dan 9:26 is that there are three dinstinct passages of time periods within the verse, further signified by the use of the semi-colons in the verse. All three periods of time are separated by a period of time not described.

Starting with that first period of time laid out in Dan 9:26, after "threescore and two weeks" shall Messiah be cut off. Now, how should we understand the words "cut off"?

Cut - H3772 ka^rath There are 286 occurrances of this word in the Bible. 175 of them are translated in the same manner as in Daniel 9:26 (i.e. same context, structure and construction). All of them take on "A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume;" when in context of the surrounding verse.

Now keeping that in mind the verse then ties together. At the end of the 69th week the Messiah will be cut off, but not for himself. Keeping "cut off" in context and considering that He is cut off not for himself, but rather to cover our sins it becomes abundantly clear that the crucifixion is described by this verse.

The second time period laid out in Dan 9:26 continues with the events of 70AD and the destruction of Jerusalem when the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. There is no doubt this event occurred under Titus at that time. Josephus confirms this....however...is Titus the prince that shall come? No. Are the people of the prince referring to the Jews? No. The temple was destroyed by the Romans, who left no stone upon another partly out of the fury of battle and partly to garner the inlaid gold in the walls throughout the temple. Apparently Titus made an attempt to stop them as they were "out of control".

So when combining these facts with Dan 9:27 we now start to see a picture of "things to come". In v27 it says "he shall confirm the covenant". Who is the "he"? He is the same as described in v26, the prince to come, he is also the rider of the white horse in Rev 6:2, John names him as the "antichrist".

Of note is the terminology used here, he shall confirm the covenant...this implies a covenant that at some point could have been already in place but he reinforces/reinstitutes it. Have we seen a 1 week (7 year) covenant with Israel and it's neighbors? Sure, the Oslo accords is an example...one that was started but never reached completion. This is speculation, but it makes sense.

As we continue, the covenant is confirmed with many for 1 week (7 years) of which in the midst (3 1/2 year mark) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and the "abomination of desolation". The implications here are huge. First, the Jews, who didn't accept Christ as the Messiah do not oblige the New Covenant that He provided for us. Therefore they still fall under the Old Covenant. By the Old Covenant they were required to conduct sacrifices (the Day of Atonement) to cover the sins of Israel. However, ever since the temple was rebuilt that is the ONLY place that they are allowed to perform those rituals. With the temple destroyed they are unable to do that. Do orthodox Jews desire the Temple to be rebuilt? Yes. Do they wish to continue the sacrifice rituals? Yes. Can they without a temple? No.

By implication of the verse, the Temple will be rebuilt, thus causing the sacrifice and oblation to start again. Now, Daniel, Christ and John refers to the abomination of desolation in the Temple and the fact that Israel will abandon Jerusalem and head for the hills so to speak. When does this occur? At the midpoint of the Tribulation (Dan 9:27, Matt 24:15, Mark 13:14, Rev 13:5). Rev 13:5 places the event at the midpoint of the 7 year period as it says that the antichrist will blaspheme (the abomination of desolation) and be given the power to continue 42 months (3 1/2 years). Also, simulataneously in Rev 12:6 the Bible shows Israel fleeing and being protected by God for 1260 days (3 1/2 years) which is a result of the abomination of desolation. So now we see the time period for the second half of the Tribulation.

How long is the first "half" of the Tribulation? Rev 11:3 is the picture of the 2 witnesses that begin their "ministry" at the beginning of the Tribulation and they work for 1260 days until they are killed at the midpoint of the Tribulation. ( how do they fit into your interpretation?)So we now see the first half of the Tribulation being 3 1/2 years.

The more I study the Word the less I believe in "coincidence", in fact, I don't believe in it at all...it is not a coincidence that Daniel calls for a 7 year period with events that coincide with the Tribulation laid out by John. I fully expect these events to occur.

By following through with this study, it is clear to me that Daniel's 70 weeks started with Artaxerxes' commandment to Nehemiah to rebuild Jerusalem circa 445BC. It took Nehemiah about 49 years to complete the rebuilding of the city. Then at the completion of the 69th week, around 33AD the Messiah, Jesus Christ, was cut off, crucified for us, to cover our sins.

What about the 70th week? My firm belief is that it has yet to occur. The natural flow of the verses show that the destruction of the Temple occurs and later, after that, at some other time the "end would come".

Also, a 7 year covenant (the 70th week) is a part of the "the end". This 7 year period is in harmony with the time period John lays out in Revelation. Sticking with the literal interpretation of Scripture, and the historical fact that the obvious literal events to occur during the Tribulation have not occurred nor been recorded, and due to the fact that iniquity is still present in the world, the end has not yet occurred, but will come in the Father's time and will be preceeded by the signs of the times laid out by Christ in Matt 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13.

[BlindSeeker]

Greetings WordSower,

I understand your placing the end of the 62 weeks at Jesus death . . . but what did Jesus mean in this verse?

Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Why was Simeon waiting for the consolation of Israel? Was it because He the "time?"

What "time" was fulfilled at the beginning of Jesus' ministry?

Peace

William

[Guest shadow2b]

This is what makes sense to me, from my notes, all of it is not mine, I study and search and consider and make up notes of everything and this is the compilation of all of that:

Daniel was praying over Israel and got the message from Gabriel about the 70 weeks. He understood that Israel was about to come out of their 70 year captivity (Dan. 9:2, Jer. 25:11,12)

Weeks - H7620 sha^bu^a sha^bu^a shebu^a^h shaw-boo'-ah, shaw-boo'-ah, sheb-oo-aw' Properly passive participle of H7650 as a denominative of H7651; literally sevened, that is, a week (specifically of years): - seven, week.

Therefore they are weeks of years, and "seventy weeks" in turn then makes up four hundred and ninety years; within which time, beginning from a date after mentioned, all the things prophesied were accomplished. Other passages where weeks represents 7 years - Gen 29:27, 28; Lev 25:8. The Bible lays a year out as a period of 360 days. ( Gen 7:11,24: Gen 8:3-4; Rev 12:6,14; and Rev 13:5. )

Dan 9:25 sets the start point of beginning of the 70 weeks at the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem. There were three commands to rebuild the Temple and or Jerusalem given in that time period. The first command was given circa 536BC to Ezra by Cyrus (Ezra 1:1) to rebuild the temple, the second command was also to Ezra by Artaxerxes (Ezra 7:1) giving Ezra authority in the temple and the finances to furnish it. The third command was given to Nehemiah by Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem and the wall (Neh 2:1-8).

When compared to Dan 9:25 it becomes apparent which decree is being referred to, it is the decree by Artaxerxes to Nehemiah to rebuild the walls and Jerusalem. For Dan 9:25 does not call for the rebuilding of the Temple (which was to Ezra), but again it was to Nehemiah to rebuild Jerusalem.

This gives us the start point of the 70 weeks "in the 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes". So the next question is when did Artaxerxes start his reign. Looking it up it varies a little but it gives a range of dates around 465BC. When is 20 years into his reign? Around 445 BC. Now, let's look at the time periods Daniel lays out in Dan 9:25.

First the 7 week period which we know is 49 years. Multiply that by 360 (since we're converting from Jewish Prophetic to Western) and divide by 365 (to get to Western years) and you get 48.3 years.

Now do the same for the 62 week period and you get 428.05 years (434 x 360 then divide by 365).

Add those together and you get the total WESTERN time for the 69 weeks which is 476.4 years. Now take 30 ( the approximate time of Christ's crucifixion) and subtract 476.4 and you get 446.4 BC. Now keep that in mind and lets compare it as follows:

Let's start with the crucifixion of Christ at AD 33 (the end of the 62 weeks portion) Dan 9:26 -"And after 62 weeks the Messiah shall be cut off but not for Himself" and we start backing up 428.05 years (the 62 weeks) and this brings us to 397 BC. Go back now the additional 48.3 years (the 7 weeks) Dan 9:25 that brings us back to 445.3 BC. Who was King in 445 BC? Artaxerxes was. Now look at Neh 2:1-8 and what does it say? In the twentieth year of Artaxerxes reign (Neh 2:1) comes the decree.

Granted this isn't accounting for leap years and such in the western calendar but it does give us a pretty accurate timeline.

So if Artaxerxes decreed the rebuilding of Jersalem to Nehemiah and he went forth to build it. That is the start of the 70 weeks of Daniel.

This puts the end of the 69th week at the crucifixion of Christ.

In Dan 9:25 the time period is broken into two parts, the first 7 weeks (49 years) which relates to the time from the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem and it's walls to it's completion and then the second part is 62 weeks (434 years) which describes the length of time from the completion of Jerusalem until Christ is crucified in Dan 9:26 (a further description is provided in that verse)

Of note in Dan 9:26 is that there are three dinstinct passages of time periods within the verse, further signified by the use of the semi-colons in the verse. All three periods of time are separated by a period of time not described.

Starting with that first period of time laid out in Dan 9:26, after "threescore and two weeks" shall Messiah be cut off. Now, how should we understand the words "cut off"?

Cut - H3772 ka^rath There are 286 occurrances of this word in the Bible. 175 of them are translated in the same manner as in Daniel 9:26 (i.e. same context, structure and construction). All of them take on "A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume;" when in context of the surrounding verse.

Now keeping that in mind the verse then ties together. At the end of the 69th week the Messiah will be cut off, but not for himself. Keeping "cut off" in context and considering that He is cut off not for himself, but rather to cover our sins it becomes abundantly clear that the crucifixion is described by this verse.

The second time period laid out in Dan 9:26 continues with the events of 70AD and the destruction of Jerusalem when the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. There is no doubt this event occurred under Titus at that time. Josephus confirms this....however...is Titus the prince that shall come? No. Are the people of the prince referring to the Jews? No. The temple was destroyed by the Romans, who left no stone upon another partly out of the fury of battle and partly to garner the inlaid gold in the walls throughout the temple. Apparently Titus made an attempt to stop them as they were "out of control".

So when combining these facts with Dan 9:27 we now start to see a picture of "things to come". In v27 it says "he shall confirm the covenant". Who is the "he"? He is the same as described in v26, the prince to come, he is also the rider of the white horse in Rev 6:2, John names him as the "antichrist".

Of note is the terminology used here, he shall confirm the covenant...this implies a covenant that at some point could have been already in place but he reinforces/reinstitutes it. Have we seen a 1 week (7 year) covenant with Israel and it's neighbors? Sure, the Oslo accords is an example...one that was started but never reached completion. This is speculation, but it makes sense.

As we continue, the covenant is confirmed with many for 1 week (7 years) of which in the midst (3 1/2 year mark) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and the "abomination of desolation". The implications here are huge. First, the Jews, who didn't accept Christ as the Messiah do not oblige the New Covenant that He provided for us. Therefore they still fall under the Old Covenant. By the Old Covenant they were required to conduct sacrifices (the Day of Atonement) to cover the sins of Israel. However, ever since the temple was rebuilt that is the ONLY place that they are allowed to perform those rituals. With the temple destroyed they are unable to do that. Do orthodox Jews desire the Temple to be rebuilt? Yes. Do they wish to continue the sacrifice rituals? Yes. Can they without a temple? No.

By implication of the verse, the Temple will be rebuilt, thus causing the sacrifice and oblation to start again. Now, Daniel, Christ and John refers to the abomination of desolation in the Temple and the fact that Israel will abandon Jerusalem and head for the hills so to speak. When does this occur? At the midpoint of the Tribulation (Dan 9:27, Matt 24:15, Mark 13:14, Rev 13:5). Rev 13:5 places the event at the midpoint of the 7 year period as it says that the antichrist will blaspheme (the abomination of desolation) and be given the power to continue 42 months (3 1/2 years). Also, simulataneously in Rev 12:6 the Bible shows Israel fleeing and being protected by God for 1260 days (3 1/2 years) which is a result of the abomination of desolation. So now we see the time period for the second half of the Tribulation.

How long is the first "half" of the Tribulation? Rev 11:3 is the picture of the 2 witnesses that begin their "ministry" at the beginning of the Tribulation and they work for 1260 days until they are killed at the midpoint of the Tribulation. ( how do they fit into your interpretation?)So we now see the first half of the Tribulation being 3 1/2 years.

The more I study the Word the less I believe in "coincidence", in fact, I don't believe in it at all...it is not a coincidence that Daniel calls for a 7 year period with events that coincide with the Tribulation laid out by John. I fully expect these events to occur.

By following through with this study, it is clear to me that Daniel's 70 weeks started with Artaxerxes' commandment to Nehemiah to rebuild Jerusalem circa 445BC. It took Nehemiah about 49 years to complete the rebuilding of the city. Then at the completion of the 69th week, around 33AD the Messiah, Jesus Christ, was cut off, crucified for us, to cover our sins.

What about the 70th week? My firm belief is that it has yet to occur. The natural flow of the verses show that the destruction of the Temple occurs and later, after that, at some other time the "end would come".

Also, a 7 year covenant (the 70th week) is a part of the "the end". This 7 year period is in harmony with the time period John lays out in Revelation. Sticking with the literal interpretation of Scripture, and the historical fact that the obvious literal events to occur during the Tribulation have not occurred nor been recorded, and due to the fact that iniquity is still present in the world, the end has not yet occurred, but will come in the Father's time and will be preceeded by the signs of the times laid out by Christ in Matt 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13.

Very well laid out WS--I agree wholeheartedly----- I appreciate your study & the time spent on this---

thank you-----GOD-BLESS------------------------{Gary}

[wordsower]

Greetings WordSower,

I understand your placing the end of the 62 weeks at Jesus death . . . but what did jesus mean in this verse?

Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Why was Simeon waiting for the consolation of Israel? Was it because He the "time?"

What "time" was fulfilled at the beginning of Jesus' ministry?

Peace

William

Blindseeker,

I think "When the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to reedem those who were under the law that we might receive the adoption of sons, and because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into you hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" Gal. 4:4-6 Answers that question.

The time for Jesus to reedem the earth had come. What do you think it means? I do think that Simeon knew the scriptures and interpreted them correctly and was probably in the minority.