Is Your Church Serving Money

[farouk]

On 9/16/2023 at 1:36 PM, bdavidc said:

I agree we should not blindly give to the poor. But that is not what I was getting at. It seems a lot of Churches spend the majority of the money they collect on themselves (huge Church buildings and feeding themselves)  and don't even help the people in their own Church who are less fortunate and need help. If they do say they help someone they do not give them much. They make giving a big deal very often and then spend it on themselves and not on what the Lord asks us to spend it on. Just the way I see it most of the time. 

I don't think I am the only one seeing this as many are leaving the Church buildings and gathering with other Christians on their own that want to do as the Bible teaches and give to others, not just to comfort themselves.

We all will answer to God for what WE did not for what others did and do. 

@bdavidc The emphasis should really be simply on a gathering place in the Lord's name:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

³ Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Corinthians 1.2-3)

[RdJ]

On 9/16/2023 at 7:52 PM, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I definitely think most churches serve money. Sometimes it will be the rich people in a church that serve in leadership positions like an elders board. Sometimes a pastor will censor his sermons based on what the BIG donors want. But I think we should look at the buildings themselves. Churches that have state of the art sound systems and big ornate buildings, brand new carpet with giant heaters or air conditioners. Lavish sculptures and paintings. Joel Osteen spent almost 100 Million on his church in Houston. I don't know how much he actually serves his community ( I do know that his church brings in millions each week ) but I wonder how many of the poor ( which Houston has a large population of poverty ) could have been helped by those millions. Also, there is no possible way that a pastor who makes a 6 figure salary ( and some even make a 7 figure salary ) is serving God with his whole heart. MY OPINION is that a pastor should not receive a salary at all. The church can provide him with housing and transportation and food and clothing. What else does he need? You can't claim to be a servant if you are much better off than the people you are supposed to be serving. Maybe I'm being overly harsh or critical, but it seems to me that pastors and churches are simply not held accountable for how they operate, especially when it comes to money. 

No salary? They do that in Holland. My ex was a pastor. He did get money btw. Other pastors were jealous. He got about 700 euro a month and they got nothing. It's no problem if you have no kids, but once we got kids it got very irritating that he served those rich people for almost nothing. If it's for Africa or the homeless it's worth the effort, but otherwise neh.

[RdJ]

It's also serving mammon if they're stingy and don't want the pastor to get a cent, while they live in luxury. A couple bought a new kitchen and had nice holidays and let the pastor go to the food bank on a borrowed bike. It's the opposite of the filthy rich pastor with the poor members and both bad. I went to one church. A woman complained that they started 5 mins too late. That guy got annoyed and said: Hold your horses. We all work for free here. If they're over 67 and have a pension they can do it for free.

 

[farouk]

On 9/16/2023 at 1:36 PM, bdavidc said:

I agree we should not blindly give to the poor. But that is not what I was getting at. It seems a lot of Churches spend the majority of the money they collect on themselves (huge Church buildings and feeding themselves)  and don't even help the people in their own Church who are less fortunate and need help. If they do say they help someone they do not give them much. They make giving a big deal very often and then spend it on themselves and not on what the Lord asks us to spend it on. Just the way I see it most of the time. 

I don't think I am the only one seeing this as many are leaving the Church buildings and gathering with other Christians on their own that want to do as the Bible teaches and give to others, not just to comfort themselves.

We all will answer to God for what WE did not for what others did and do. 

@bdavidc Good if Christians really concentrate on the simplicity of Acts 2.42 activities and if their stewardship reflected this accordingly.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

On 9/15/2023 at 3:36 PM, bdavidc said:

Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.    ~ Galatians 2:4-5

Both then and now, we have to be discerning about who teaches us. You’re not saved if you don’t take your salvation seriously. Those who understand God’s word and read the Bible for themselves should be very discerning about the leaders in the church they’re attending. Supporting complacent and compromising leaders will lead you, your family, and the people you invite on the path to hell. They use clever and indirect methods to deceive (and may not even realize they are doing so) which is a trick of Satan. It’s only by knowing God and His word in the Bible that you’ll know if you’re being deceived.

Is Your Church Serving Money

Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. ~ Galatians 2:10

There is no doubt that this is not an isolated verse. There are numerous references to this in the Bible, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament. It is God’s people’s duty to remember the poor and to be eager to remember them.

Seems to me when trying to find a Church whose main goal is to serve Jesus Christ and teach the Bible it has been tough to find one that does not often talk about needing your money so they can build a nicer building. Plus they ask that it is beyond your regular giving. Also if someone in the Church needs help they take up a special offering beyond your regular giving for them. My Bible study seems to point out that people are more important than the building and seeking the lost is more important than the building. Often when they actually give something to help out missions or people they don’t give much (a couple hundred) which doesn’t buy much. Then they parade them in front of the Church to show how great helping them was. Very sad and not what I read in the Bible that we should do.

A church that loses its outward focus, as evidenced by where it spends its money, is showing signs of spiritual weakness. Church consultant and author Thom S. Rainer, in his book Autopsy of a Dead Church, states that one of the symptoms of a dying church is that the percentage of the budget for members’ needs keeps increasing, while the money earmarked for outreach decreases.

Read more

I think I agree with your statements.   I also feel most church's are misusing money.  Most church's have a big budget for their staff pay, big budget for their facility, and big budget for future facility plans, but then have a tiny or no budget for evangelism, and the same for taking care of the poor.  I think churches should have a full disclosure of where the money goes posted out front so everyone in their church can see where the tithes and offerings goes.  

Edited March 21 by Jedi4Yahweh

[RdJ]

On 3/21/2024 at 4:19 AM, Jedi4Yahweh said:

I think I agree with your statements.   I also feel most church's are misusing money.  Most church's have a big budget for their staff pay, big budget for their facility, and big budget for future facility plans, but then have a tiny or no budget for evangelism, and the same for taking care of the poor.  I think churches should have a full disclosure of where the money goes posted out front so everyone in their church can see where the tithes and offerings goes.  

Big expensive church building, not rented cheap: it's a no from me.

We now get that craziness in Holland too. 

https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/tom-de-wal-wil-in-brabants-dorpje-voor-12-miljoen-euro-religieus-centrum-bouwen-van-121-meter-lang~aa21812d/

Evangelist and faith healer Tom de Wal wants to build a religious center in the Brabant village of Dussen, no less than 121 meters long, with a golden facade. Villagers absolutely do not like the megalomaniac plan.

[Who me]

It's  your chose the church you want to attend.

If they are secretive about the churches  income and expenditure, don't  contribute.

As a church member one has the right to ask questions about expenditure,  about policies, large purchases and goldenhandshakes.

 

You have control over how you spend your money. Giving to homeless charities also involves paid staff, premises, tax and insurance.

If you join a church that rents a premises will you be joining the team that sweeps the hall, puts the chairs out, erects  the outside banner, prepares the Sunday school rooms, bringing in the song books, sound system, musical  instrumentsments etc etc.

In short what ever church one attends are you a pew critic or a Barnabas.

[RdJ]

44 minutes ago, Who me said:

Giving to homeless charities also involves paid staff

Doesn't have to. There are non profit charities. When my ex just started a tiny church and got no cent LOL one guy would put 10 bucks in an envelope with: for the poor people in Africa. Go find some people with a normal paid job and a non profit organization to give those 10 bucks to the poor.

 I only give money to non profit. If they earn more than me they can give their own money to the poor. There was a guy on christian forums who said he got a new job. Leader of an organization for the poor Africans. He got 250.000 for it plus an extra house in Belgium and his wife could just play housewife. He thought it was weird that people got mad. Are you not happy for me? Why on earth would you spare money from your mouth to give some to the poor Africans and then these people stuff themselves full and live in luxury from it? Then you're also to blame that they think this is normal.

[Who me]

 MAF, Witclife, TearFund and Barnabas fund are four I ternational Christian missions emp.oying professional  people to do a professional job.

The same can be said of mission organisations, even small missions like Morning Star in South Africa or Cari g for Life in Leeds England cannot operate  full time on volunteers alone.

Itsyour money, be diligent a d give as you are lead.