12 Reasons I Know that I am Eternally Secure (I am a Child of God)!

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

You know, I hadn't even heard the OSAS moniker until pretty recently.  To me it was just obvious that we were eternally secure, and that scripture also shows accountability for the believer's works after their initial (born-again) salvation, which will be judged at the Bema Seat of Christ.  I am actually surprised that many don't have that same understanding, so I guess I was a little naïve.

My intention with this thread was to lay our what I've been shown and see in scripture on the matter.  I purposely tried to keep it all in the first person - that is, regarding what I believe.  There are no accusations that others are off the mark, etc. --> just presenting what I think are liberating truths . . . at least for me.

And let's face it, we can disagree over about any noncore item (aka "the majors") of our faith, and that's fine.  And while I think this a key topic, it's probably not a core or imperative item of the faith (a next level "important" one perhaps?).  The bottom-line of any such matter is that we are called to love one another first and foremost.

Maybe and hopefully through our discourse and carefully/prayerfully examining the word, we maintain the oneness of the faith and fellowship, and may the Lord shine light on all of us (because I doubt any of us has the whole market cornered on salvation reality & truths)!

I never encountered it either until I came to Worthy, brother. Our security in the hand of Christ is spelled out in scripture, and it never occurred to me that it was a matter for debate. There are a host of things being argued about, and I do my best to understand so I won't be clueless. 

Most of it strikes me as absurd. 

Like you, I prefer to focus upon Christ. We ought to encourage one another, yes? 

[steve morrow]

DISSEMBLERS / PRETENDERS 

ROMANS 8:28  and we know that  --all  things--  work together for good to them ---THAT  LOVE  GOD--- to them who are the called --- according to  HIS  purpose ---

 

---not even me---  ???

 

JOHN 15:9  as  THE  FATHER  hath loved me so have I loved you ---continue in  MY  love---

--15:10--   --IF--  you keep  MY  commandments you shall --- abide in  MY  love --- even as I have kept  MY  FATHERS  commandments  ---  and  abide  in  HIS  love ---

JOHN 14:15   IF  YOU  LOVE  ME  KEEP  MY  COMMANDMENTS 

 

WHY  ARE  THERE  SO  MANY  CONTRIBUTORS  THAT  DO  NOT  LOVE  THE  LORD  AND  YET  CLAIM  TO  BE  CHILDREN  OF  GOD 

 

MATTHEW 5:6  blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness for --they shall be filled--

MATTHEW 6:33  but seek you first the kingdom of  GOD  ---and  HIS  righteousness---  and all these things shall be added unto you 

ROMANS 10:3  for they being ignorant of  GODS  righteousness and going about to establish their --own  righteousness-- have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of  GOD

PROVERBS 8:7  for  MY  mouth shall speak truth and wickedness is an abomination to  MY  lips 

--8:8--  all the words of  --MY  MOUTH--  are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them 

 

1 JOHN 1:9  IF  WE  CONFESS  OUR  SINS  --HE--  IS  FAITHFUL  AND  JUST  TO  FORGIVE  US  OUR  SINS  AND  TO  CLEANSE  US  FROM  ALL  UNRIGHTEOUSNESS 

1 JOHN 2:3 and hereby we do know that we know him ---if we keep  HIS  commandments---

--2:4--  HE  THAT  SAITH  I  KNOW  HIM  AND  KEEPETH  NOT  --HIS--  COMMANDMENTS  --IS  A  LIAR--  AND  THE  TRUTH  IS  NOT  IN  HIM 

--2:5--  but whoso keepeth  HIS  WORD  ---in him verily is  --THE  LOVE  OF  GOD  PERFECTED--  HEREBY  KNOW  WE  THAT  WE  ARE  IN  HIM --

 

JOHN 14:24  he that loveth  ME  not keepeth not  MY  sayings and the word which you hear is not mine but  --THE  FATHERS--  which  sent me  --

 

*******PROVERBS 14:7  go from the presence of a foolish man when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge******* 

 

*******PSALM 25:10  all the paths of  THE  LORD  are mercy and truth unto such as --- keep  HIS  covenant and  HIS  testimonies ---*******

 

ISAIAH 8:20  to the law and to the --testimony-- if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them 

PSALM 119:36  incline my heart unto thy testimonies and not to covetousness

EZEKIEL 33:31  and they come unto thee as the people cometh and they sit before thee as  MY  people -- and they hear thy words --- but they will not do them -- for with their mouth they show much love  ---  but their heart goeth after their covetousness --

PSALM 119:138  thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful 

PSALM 119:24  thy testimonies also are my delight -- AND  MY  COUNSELLORS --

 

EPHESIANS 5:5  for this you know that no whoremonger nor unclean person  -- nor covetous man -- WHO  IS  AN  IDOLATER -- hath any inheritance in the kingdom of --  CHRIST  AND  OF  GOD  --

 

JOHN 5:34  but I receive not testimony from man ---BUT  THESE  THINGS  THAT  I  SAY  THAT  YOU  MIGHT  BE  SAVED ---

 

EPHESIANS 5:3  but fornication and all uncleanness ****OR  COVETEOUSNESS**** let it not be once named among you as becometh saints 

 

JEREMIAH 7:8  behold you trust in lying words that cannot profit

 

REVELATION 19:10  and I fell at his feet to worship him and he said unto me see thou do it not I am thy fellowservant and of thy brethren that have --THE  TESTIMONY  OF  JESUS  WORSHIP  GOD  ---  FOR  THE  TESTIMONY  OF  JESUS  IS  THE  SPIRIT  OF  PROPHECY  ---

 

ACTS 3:22  for moses truly said unto the fathers a prophet shall  THE  LORD  YOUR  GOD  raise up unto of your brethren like unto me  --HIM--  shall you hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you 

--3:23-- AND  IT  SHALL  COME  TO  PASS  THAT EVERY  SOUL  WHICH  WILL  NOT  HEAR  THAT  PROPHET  SHALL  BE  DESTROYED  FROM  AMONG  THE  PEOPLE 

--3:24-- yea and all the prophets from samuel and those that follow after as many as have spoken have likewise foretold of these days 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

 

 

 

 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 9/16/2023 at 12:19 PM, Vine Abider said:

On a flight home yesterday I was considering the OSAS arguments, both the pros and cons.  I decided to jot down reason why I know I’m eternally saved and secure in this wonderful salvation.  Below are 12 reasons that came to me, and I thought to share them with my brothers and sisters here on Worthy.  I hope and sincerely pray these may be a help to some and that God would shine liberating light on all of us.

(I you don’t see an applicable verse for any of these – please ask)

1.      Nothing can separate me from the love of God – not even me!  (Romans 8:38-39)

2.      Christ’s ultimate sacrifice on the cross paid for ALL my sins – “removed as far as the east is from the west” (Psalm 103:12)

3.      By being born-again, God’s very life has been sent into me – “Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts crying, ‘Abba!  Father!’”  (John 3:6, Galatians 4:6)

4.      Old things have passed away and I am a new creature in Christ! (2 Corinthians 5:17, Col. 3:1-3)

5.      I have been placed into Christ – joined to Him - and placed in His body by the Supreme Power in the universe, which no one can undo – “It is of God that you are in Christ Jesus” “He that is joined to the Lord is one Spirit with Him”  (1 Cor 1:30, 12:18, 6:17, 2 Cor 1:21, Eph 2:6)

6.      I am now a child/son of God, born of my Father, and a partaker of His divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4)

7.      Christ’s attributes and inheritance are mine forever, given to us by our older Brother. “in Him . . . the righteousness of God in Christ” “Joint heirs with Christ”   (2 Cor 5:21, Romans 8:17)

8.      God now looks at me as He does His Son and we are sealed for Him by the Spirit.  (Eph 1:13, 1 John 4:17, Gal 2:20, Col 3:3-4)

9.      There is now no condemnation for me whatsoever, since I have been put into Christ!  (Romans 8:1)

10.   I know that as His child there is accountability and discipline to help me grow and mature, but it is all for the good and therefore, my loving Father will not send me to eternal death. (1 Cor 3:12, Rev 3:19, Heb 12:11, Psalm 16:10)

11.   My identification is now as a son of God with His life in me, but sin is still present in my flesh and can be manifested in my actions.  However, God no longer views me as a sinner (because of the all efficacious work of Christ for me), but rather as a child of God, a saint who sometimes sins.

12.   I have been set free for freedom’s sake and can come boldly ANYTIME to the throne of grace, to obtain mercy and grace to help in time of need à  And this is especially true after I fail!

It has been bothering and a little grieving to me to see all my brothers and sisters on here who don’t realize what a complete work Christ has done for us in giving us eternal life, which may never be taken from us!  Christ’s awesome work, in His substitutionary death and resurrection, results in His very life being made available to “whosoever wills.”  And through being born-again we are made God’s children, who can’t be unborn.  Being God’s children is not just a legal matter of adoption, but also a matter of life – Father’s very life comes into us making us children of the Most High and Christ’s brothers!

And hopefully the aspect of a believer’s accountability has been effectively presented in this post and on various recent threads (by others & myself).  To reiterate, even though we are forgiven of sin because of Christ’s magnificent work on the cross, sin in a believer’s life can still cause many problems.  The new life that is in us does not want to sin, however we still have the choice to live according to the sinful flesh.  If we do, Romans 8:13 tells us we “are about to die.”  (then goes on to say, “But if by the spirit you put to death the practices of the body you will live.”)  This is not referring to eternal death here, but rather the living spirit in us will be deadened by setting our mind on the flesh, that is, until we turn back to Him.  Ultimately, all believers will be judged at the Judgement Seat of Christ, discussed in Romans 14:10 and 2 Cor 5:10.  Here, the Righteous Judge will determine whether children of God have built (our works) with good materials (gold, silver, precious stone) or poor materials (wood, hay, straw).  If we did well and built with the materials God desires, we will receive accommodation and praise from Him.  If it’s found we lived in sin and built with a bunch of poor materials, these poor building materials will be judged accordingly and will be burnt up.  Therefore, we will suffer loss and He will be ashamed of us, but since we are still sealed children of our Father, we ourselves will be saved.

So that’s why I know that I know that I know that I have eternal life, which I cannot undo . . . no more that I can climb back into my mother’s womb and somehow be unborn.  Yes, it is truly amazing grace! 

 

“When I see the blood, I will pass over you.”

“It is of God that you are in Christ Jesus.”

Exodus 12:13 & 1 Corinthians 1:30

 

AMEN!!!!

 

It truly breaks my heart that so many believers have doubts about their salvation. Having doubts robs us of the joy and peace we are supposed to have about our security. How could we have joy in the Lord if we never really knew where we stood with him? I wonder if those who don't believe in OSAS live in a state of paranoia, never knowing how many or which sins would make them lose salvation again and again. It seems odd that people could believe they are so mighty and powerful that they could Undo what Christ did on the cross for them. They also seem to always jump to the worst case scenario that those who believe in OSAS will automatically run out and sin as much as possible. I can't speak for others, but that's definitely not how I feel. Being eternally secure gives me tremendous peace and comfort. I know that when I slip, I don't need to fear talking to God about it. I can come to him in confidence that he forgives me and I need not feel guilty or bring it up again. You worded your post very well, and I thank Jesus there are people like yourself who can articulate things I wish I could say, but have difficulty doing. Thank You.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

On 9/16/2023 at 8:10 PM, Vine Abider said:

Most modern translations don't include that last part of Romans 8:1 which is in the KJV, because it's not in the oldest/original texts.

It is in the majority text which is the accurate text that was used most often until the great falling away started gaining steam and all these new translations started coming out... that use the minority text that contains all the errors. (Gnosticism)

It says the same thing if you keep reading in Romans 8...

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

*This is referring to the Law of Christ that believers live under today which is the Lord's moral law that's always been in effect that followers of antinomianism try to explain away (see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25)

Romans 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:6,7
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Then there is...

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9,10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1:28-32
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth

Galatians 6:8  
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption

All these verses indicate condemnation and corruption for anyone walking after the flesh which is living in sin.

Do you claim all these are not in the original text?

That would be another example of the OSAS crowd trying to explain away portions of scripture that does not fit their eiegesis and gnosticism

 

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, Marathoner said:

"Once saved always saved" is a trap, my friends. It's a trap wherein brothers and sisters endlessly argue about hypothetical situations, ignoring the truth that we are saved right now. Eternal assurance is similar to that snare, the "I know because I know because I know" feat of circular reasoning. I point toward the obvious:

What's the fruit of these discussions? Nothing worthwhile nor edifying. No one changes their minds, and no one moves on from the doctrine of salvation. That's the irony of it all. We understand that our Lord saves us and rightly so; but there's so much more to discipleship than spinning in fruitless circles like children on a merry-go-round ride. 

Look after widows and orphans. Encourage one another daily. Obey the voice of the Lord who has given us more than we can possibly imagine or conceive, confident that He will indeed finish that work He started in us. Listen to what others have to say, test the spirits, and be kind to one and all. Those are the exhortations of the apostles to us. Walk in the works we were created for.  

Shalom, Marathoner.

This is because "salvation" is the WRONG WORD for the exchange that God makes between His Son's righteousness and our sin. It isn't "salvation"; "salvation" is the RESCUE that God will make for His people, particularly the children of Israel, when He sends His Son back!

No, what we're talking about is God's JUSTIFICATION of us! When God JUSTIFIES us, it has NOTHING to do with what WE do. It has EVERYTHING to do with what was already done BY THE MESSIAH! 

2 Corinthians 5:21 is probably the best verse in the Bible for showing us just what was done when God justifies an individual:

21 τὸν γὰρ μὴ γνόντα ἁμαρτίαν ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἁμαρτίαν ἐποίησεν, ἵνα ἡμεῖς γινώμεθα δικαιοσύνη Θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ.

Transliterated,

21 ton gar mee gnonta hamartian huper heemoon hamartian epoieesen, hina heemeis ginoometha dikaiosunee Theou en autoo.

Translated word-for-word:

21 The-One for not having-known sin on-behalf-of us sin became, so-that we might-be-made righteousness of-God in Him.

Reorganized in English word order:

21 For the One not having known sin became sin on our behalf, so that we might be made God's righteousness in Him.

 

That's it. The Messiah Yeeshuwa` became our sin, so we can become God's righteousness-found-in-Him. So, regardless what we did or do now or will do in the future, Yeeshuwa` BECAME our sin - ALL OF OUR SIN, PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE - and was crucified AS our sin. That's why He is called "HaKeves 'Elohiym" or "The Lamb of God." He became our sin and died as our sin by His substitutionary death. We, in spite of our sins, become the "righteousness of God" found within Yeeshuwa`. It's not OSAS, it's OJBGAJBG, Once Justified By God, ALWAYS Justified By God! We were "created in the Messiah Yeeshuwa` UNTO good works!" NOT, "because of good works!" (Ephesians 2:10). When one comes to the END of himself or herself, THEN he or she is ready to rely upon God's power to justify him or her.

[AdHoc]

14 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

This would be better said in the past tense: we once sat on their shoulders, and here is why. Catholicism is the largest religion in the world, with 1.4 billion adherents rapidly growing. It is on fire now in these last days, under the leadership of Pope Francis and his successful and popular ecumenical movement. Protestant denominations and some sects of Islam are signing letters of agreement or coming back under the umbrella of the one true universal church. (Red flag)

Pope Francis, the first Jesuit Pope (omitting the history of the Jesuit arm), is a hardcore socialist, globalist, and mother earth worshipper, and will baptize ETs if they need it. His messages never concern Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

There is no need to discuss Bible ownership, the Dark Ages, the Inquisitions, the Crusades, the Reformation, etc.; you know them better than I do. History repeats itself; today's mantra is the Bible is hating speech, divisive, and non-inclusive, Christians are divisive and intolerant, a basket of deplorables, and Christians are the problem with unity, solidarity, and alternative lifestyles. The Bible and its teachings are restricted, monitored, censored, dropped, and increasingly banned by Amazon, publishers, social media, YouTube, and others.

We are being bombarded with frequent TOS agreements, everything from our banks to purchasing anything over the World Wide Web. The latest one was from Regions Bank, estimated reading time, of twenty-five minutes. If I read all the TOS I receive, I would not have any time for anything else. However, I have spent some time reading some of them, and it is easy to see it has gone from them serving us to vice versa (oligarchy).

Hostility and intolerance are again forming against Jews and Christians as we approach the final climax of history. The cursing and flippant use of the most precious Name ever, Jesus Christ. Why is the 2^nd most populous religion never under public and government attack, with about 1.2 billion adherents, Islam, or any other religion? They are constantly pacified, tolerated, and catered to protected classes. Public schools can and do teach about Islam and other faiths, save Christianity and our nation's history, relationships, and laws that shaped our nation.

Has anyone ever heard in other cultures, Buddha Damn, Allah Damn, Mohammod Damn? It is always Jesus and our God; why is that? That is a rhetorical question because I know the answer.  

Everyone has an innate sense of the One true living Creator God. I have heard many stories about devout atheists and unbelievers faced with immediate death, shouting out, “Save me, Jesus.”

The Catholic Church operates tens of thousands of Catholic schools, universities and colleges, hospitals, and orphanages worldwide. It is the world's largest non-government provider of education and health care. Among its other social services are numerous charitable and humanitarian organizations. They are work-based, earning their way toward Salvation. They do not believe Salvation is a free gift from God for the asking.

The Catholic Church, in the Council of Trent session VI, condemns the Protestant notion of sola fide ("saved by faith alone"), making them an heir. They have not nor will not change that heresy.

As we know, the word "Ecumenism" comes from the Greek (oikoumene) which means "the whole inhabited world" (One World Religion?), and was historically used with specific reference to the Roman Empire. And it is the Roman PAPAL Empire that is leading the way with ecumenism today, spearheaded by Francis.

We see what Satan is trying to do through the Roman Catholic Church and this interfaith movement. Since when did Christ Jesus "desire" the whole world to unite, no matter what they believed? (Reminds me of one people, one language, one religion, Tower of Bable and dispersion) God clearly told His people to "come out from among them and be separate" (2 Corinthians 6:17).

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

God also confirmed that "two people cannot walk together unless they be agreed (Amos 3:3). And yet the Pope and the leaders of this ecumenical movement are uniting the people of the world, no matter what faith or beliefs they have. This is the whore of Babylon; the Vatican, its beliefs and practices, and the World Council of Churches is in affiliation and agreement.

As Ecclesiastes 1:9 states above, it looks to me like the reformers and protestors are willingly going back under the umbrella of the Universal Church of ROME. I further surmise, that this, or something close to it, will be the global religion of inclusion and peace for mankind and "Mother Earth."

Your thoughts are my thoughts.

I was born and bred a Roman Catholic. All boys Christian Brothers' College for me all my school-years. In boarding school it was Mass 3 to 4 times a week @ 06:30 and retreats scattered through the years. I know this thing from the inside. It is pure counterfeit. Have you ever noticed that Mystery Babylon is "bedecked" with the same materials as the Church is built with (1st Cor.3:12, Rev.18:16). But the silver is missing. The price on Jesus was 30 pieces of silver - the price of a Woman. It stands for the atoning work of Christ.

The Roman Church has no atoning work. It is one's OWN WORKS that decide. And if you are borderline the fire of Purgatory will purge your sins. Our Lord Jesus is denied to the uttermost. The greatest act in human history - Golgotha - exists only in Roman Catholic doctrine to camouflage. The Lord saved me out of this all at age 27½. What a salvation!

[AdHoc]

19 hours ago, Marathoner said:

"Once saved always saved" is a trap, my friends. It's a trap wherein brothers and sisters endlessly argue about hypothetical situations, ignoring the truth that we are saved right now. Eternal assurance is similar to that snare, the "I know because I know because I know" feat of circular reasoning. I point toward the obvious:

What's the fruit of these discussions? Nothing worthwhile nor edifying. No one changes their minds, and no one moves on from the doctrine of salvation. That's the irony of it all. We understand that our Lord saves us and rightly so; but there's so much more to discipleship than spinning in fruitless circles like children on a merry-go-round ride. 

Look after widows and orphans. Encourage one another daily. Obey the voice of the Lord who has given us more than we can possibly imagine or conceive, confident that He will indeed finish that work He started in us. Listen to what others have to say, test the spirits, and be kind to one and all. Those are the exhortations of the apostles to us. Walk in the works we were created for.  

Certainly one of the better postings on this thread. We Christians go round and round (its slowly reaching 4 centuries now) and the same arguments are produced. And when it is pointed out that they took the text out of context, or read it wrong, the shutters come down. Let's examine just one - Romans 8:29-30;

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Let's cut to the chase. Where is the word "SALVATION" here? So why is it used? Because intelligent men INSIST on changing God's Word to fit their concept. What then is the verses about?
1. The overall CONTEXT is Chapter 7 - the law of sin and death that dwells in us (7:23). "Who will save me from this body of DEATH?" is Paul's cry. The premise among many Christians is, "Who Cares! Death is WELCOME. I then go to heaven!" But this is not true. This part of scripture concerns the REDEMPTION of the BODY. Why? Because man was made in the IMAGE and LIKENESS of God and according to Chapter 7 IS FALLING SHORT!

Chapter 8 proposes a PROGRESSION of salvation - NOT FROM GEHENNA - but from the awfulness of not being in the image and likeness of Christ. being saved from Gehenna surely bring glory to God. But so does going to Gehenna! It is proof of His JUSTICE. What is missing is men walking this earth who express God. That is the glory of Christ. How is it achieved. First we must be "children of God". That implies that you have God's nature - His divine life. If you have the nature of a dog, you will easily act like one. So also the divine nature. It establishes a LAW OF CHRIST'S LIFE in you.

Then two things must happen. The saint who has the divine life must be obedient to it. He must be LED BY THE Holy Spirit Who dwells IN your spirit. This entails LOSS. If you are obedient to God, if you are led by God, YOUR SOUL MUST BE DENIED. Added to this you need REFINING. So what does God allow. "ALL THINGS" - the good and the bad. Is it GOOD to go to jail for something you didn't do? NO! Is the immediate answer. But God says to Joseph of Egypt - YES! I was TRAINING you to rule Egypt - the greatest power on earth. And so verse 28 says that "ALL THINGS" (good and bad) SERVE you. Why?

Verse 29 answers! because you have been PREDESTINED ..... No, fellow Christian .... NOT SALVATION! You are adding to God's Word. You were PREDESTINED, (once saved), TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF CHRIST. Remember the conference of the Triune God in Genesis 1:26-28??? God's plan, one that he never changed, is to have men in the image and likeness. AND THEN ....

When the character of these predestined ones is CONFORMED to that of Christ, THEN God has one more duty. TO REDEEM THE BODY. Why? Because the rest of the creature IS GROANING. It's been under corrupt governance since before Adam. When Lucifer was Governor he laid waste his cities and would not free his prisoners (Isa.14:17). The earth was not only cursed by his activities but God had to cover it with water to stop the stench (Gen.1:2). Who has God prepared as new and righteous governors? CHRISTIANS! But only those who went through what they were PREDESTINED to be .... No, fellow Christian ... NOT SALVATION!!!

We are PREDESTINED to be refined by circumstances (v.28) to assist our CONFORMING to the Image and likeness of Christ! (v.29). That is the context and thus the true meaning of Romans 8:29.

[Vine Abider]

13 hours ago, Sower said:

  (13) another one VA..(for me the neatest)

                   "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"

When God saved me, I had thirty yrs of RCC dogma to unload, review and revise, works maintaining salvation was the biggie.
To the (RCC), to even believe I was saved was a sin, the sin of presumption, to presume upon God I did enough works to be saved. Took months of study (as new believer) to fully grasps God's amazing grace. Never means, never leave me nor for sake me.
A no brainer when the scriptures flooded in the light and set me free of the RCC dogma, and that awareness of my Abba's love.

Yet I post not to debate the issue, for to someone secure in the unfailing love of God, I need not try to convince anyone of what the spirit revealed to me. It does not matter to me the actual final total truth revealed when the time comes to find out the calvinism/arminianism debate nor the OSAS/works debate etc etc etc ad nauseam. It just doesn't matter, when it comes to standing for Christ, to make a stand, to share the gospel (GOOD news) to the lost and dying, and simply enjoying God.
What is the cause/enemy for us not sharing the good news? Rehashing so many unverifiable (so far) doctrines using man's methods for centuries with no consensus yet?  God says; "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known" Study yes, for sure, but to what end?
 

“But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd. Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few; 

Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.”

                                            "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations"
                                                            "He that winneth souls is wise"
                                                                 Give us boldness, Lord

Thanks much for sharing!

[Vine Abider]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marathoner.

This is because "salvation" is the WRONG WORD for the exchange that God makes between His Son's righteousness and our sin. It isn't "salvation"; "salvation" is the RESCUE that God will make for His people, particularly the children of Israel, when He sends His Son back!

No, what we're talking about is God's JUSTIFICATION of us! When God JUSTIFIES us, it has NOTHING to do with what WE do. It has EVERYTHING to do with what was already done BY THE MESSIAH! 

2 Corinthians 5:21 is probably the best verse in the Bible for showing us just what was done when God justifies an individual:

21 τὸν γὰρ μὴ γνόντα ἁμαρτίαν ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἁμαρτίαν ἐποίησεν, ἵνα ἡμεῖς γινώμεθα δικαιοσύνη Θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ.

Transliterated,

21 ton gar mee gnonta hamartian huper heemoon hamartian epoieesen, hina heemeis ginoometha dikaiosunee Theou en autoo.

Translated word-for-word:

21 The-One for not having-known sin on-behalf-of us sin became, so-that we might-be-made righteousness of-God in Him.

Reorganized in English word order:

21 For the One not having known sin became sin on our behalf, so that we might be made God's righteousness in Him.

 

That's it. The Messiah Yeeshuwa` became our sin, so we can become God's righteousness-found-in-Him. So, regardless what we did or do now or will do in the future, Yeeshuwa` BECAME our sin - ALL OF OUR SIN, PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE - and was crucified AS our sin. That's why He is called "HaKeves 'Elohiym" or "The Lamb of God." He became our sin and died as our sin by His substitutionary death. We, in spite of our sins, become the "righteousness of God" found within Yeeshuwa`. It's not OSAS, it's OJBGAJBG, Once Justified By God, ALWAYS Justified By God! We were "created in the Messiah Yeeshuwa` UNTO good works!" NOT, "because of good works!" (Ephesians 2:10). When one comes to the END of himself or herself, THEN he or she is ready to rely upon God's power to justify him or her.

Thank you for that!  And that had actually been coming to me lately as well - that it's really a matter of justification!  He did the justifying - I had no part of that except to believe in what He already did and accept the gift!  Hallelujah!!! 

[Vine Abider]

12 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

AMEN!!!!

 

It truly breaks my heart that so many believers have doubts about their salvation. Having doubts robs us of the joy and peace we are supposed to have about our security. How could we have joy in the Lord if we never really knew where we stood with him? I wonder if those who don't believe in OSAS live in a state of paranoia, never knowing how many or which sins would make them lose salvation again and again. It seems odd that people could believe they are so mighty and powerful that they could Undo what Christ did on the cross for them. They also seem to always jump to the worst case scenario that those who believe in OSAS will automatically run out and sin as much as possible. I can't speak for others, but that's definitely not how I feel. Being eternally secure gives me tremendous peace and comfort. I know that when I slip, I don't need to fear talking to God about it. I can come to him in confidence that he forgives me and I need not feel guilty or bring it up again. You worded your post very well, and I thank Jesus there are people like yourself who can articulate things I wish I could say, but have difficulty doing. Thank You.

Indeed. I have enough of a struggle with fear, without also doubting my eternal position in Christ!  Thanks for conveying this!