Essential Eschatology

[WilliamL]

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

when was the Temple torn asunder? At Jesus' death, after exactly 69 weeks,

The Vail was torn asunder then, not the temple; the latter was not destroyed until 70 AD.

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

1.) Finish the transgression ...

This "the pesha/rebellion/apostasy" was not of the nation, but of the priesthood: Gabriel is directly referring back to "the vision at the beginning" (9:21) of his heaven-sent prophecy, begun in Daniel 8. Which shows you completely missed the context of Dan. 9:24-27, when Gabriel returned to help Daniel "understand the vision." 9:23

Again, for anyone not blinded by their own logic, Daniel 9:24 is fully explained in its context in the blog below, and the two that follow it on Daniel 8.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1568-daniel-924-27-examined-part-1-verse-24/

[Revelation Man]

16 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The Vail was torn asunder then, not the temple; the latter was not destroyed until 70 AD.

On 9/29/2023 at 6:27 PM, Revelation Man said:

Yes, I know, God forsook (LEFT) the Holy of holies at that point in time. Enter the Church Age, Exit Israel, they thus became as "Dead Men's Bones" unto God.

16 hours ago, WilliamL said:

This "the pesha/rebellion/apostasy" was not of the nation, but of the priesthood: Gabriel is directly referring back to "the vision at the beginning" (9:21) of his heaven-sent prophecy, begun in Daniel 8. Which shows you completely missed the context of Dan. 9:24-27, when Gabriel returned to help Daniel "understand the vision." 9:23

You are kidding yourself. Read the Prayer in Dan. 9 leading up to the Prophecy in verses 24-27. How long did it take you to come up with that convoluted attempt of denial brother? Now let me overcome this point also. TBH, I can't believe anyone would even go there. 

Dan. 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; 2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: 4 And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; 5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:

6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee. 8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.

9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; 10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

-------------------------

It has nothing to do with the Priesthood per se, its THE NATION, just like Daniel's prayer says. 

16 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Again, for anyone not blinded by their own logic, Daniel 9:24 is fully explained in its context in the blog below, and the two that follow it on Daniel 8.

 

I destroyed your thesis brother, that is why we get a delayed SHORT REBUT.

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Revelation Man

[Retrobyter]

On 9/29/2023 at 7:24 PM, Marilyn C said:

Yes, for those in Israel. 

Shalom, Marilyn.

And, you too, sis! Those who call themselves "Christian" are ADOPTED into the Family, and that makes us ALL "Jews" through the Messiah, who was and IS a Jew!

[WilliamL]

On 9/30/2023 at 6:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

I destroyed your thesis brother, that is why we get a delayed SHORT REBUT.

No, you played select-a-verse, while ignoring the testimony of other verses, both biblical and historical, that provide information that you apparently don't want to hear.

The pesha begain during the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes IV, when Jason, the brother of the High Pries Onias III, payed Antiochus a large bribe to remove Onias from his office and replace him with Jason; who then "shifted his countrymen over to the Greek way of life. ...the priests were no longer intent upon their service at the altar." 2 Macc. 4:7-14

See the history of this time here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1411-antiochus-epiphanes-and-the-end-times-part-1-the-history/

So the pesha/apostasy began with the corruption of the Hebraic priesthood, and then devolved to the rest of the people. [The same thing that we see today with the Church.] God through Gabriel then prophesied that the 'fulfillment of the pesha' (9:24) would be the destruction of the Temple during the 70th week (9:27). The Temple was the sole place that gave the Hebraic priesthood its authority.

Daniel 8:11 (cont.) …and on account of him [Antiochus] the tamyd/continual service was taken up/away, and the place of His [Godʼs] sanctuary was caused to be cast down [Hophal verb stem (causative-passive)]. 12 And a host/army was given/set against the continual service in pesha/transgression/apostasy, and he cast down truth earthward… 13 …“How long will be the effect of the vision of the continual service and the pesha of desolation, to give even sanctuary and host to be trodden down?”

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1575-daniel-924-27-examined-part-2-daniel-8ʼs-original-vision-of-“the-pesharebellion”-of-the-jews/

Jesus prophesied ... a “desolation” for the city, people, and Temple of his day, saying that these were “the things having been written.” Luke 21:22; “the things” referring to the events of verses 6 and 20-21. Only one Old Testament “written” prophecy fulfills this statement, and that is the passage of Daniel 9:24-27. (Micah 3:12 was not fulfilled until the aftermath of the Bar Kokhba War, which ended in 135 A.D.) In particular, Jesus singled out the corrupted and rebellious religious leaders of his day – ha-poshim/the apostates (Dan. 8:23) – whose pesha would soon be “utterly restrained” (9:24):

Matthew 23:29 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! … 31 …you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. … 35 …upon you shall come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth… 36 Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem… 38 Behold, your house [that is, the Temple] is left to you desolate.”

In saying these words, Jesus was in effect both witnessing to and re-decreeing the “decreed desolations” of Daniel 9:26b and 27, and prophesying that those desolations would be fulfilled during the generation of the first century A.D. Which they were.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

 

[Revelation Man]

On 10/2/2023 at 12:42 PM, WilliamL said:

No, you played select-a-verse, while ignoring the testimony of other verses, both biblical and historical, that provide information that you apparently don't want to hear.

The pesha begain during the reign of Antiochus Epiphanes IV, when Jason, the brother of the High Pries Onias III, payed Antiochus a large bribe to remove Onias from his office and replace him with Jason; who then "shifted his countrymen over to the Greek way of life. ...the priests were no longer intent upon their service at the altar." 2 Macc. 4:7-14

You just never quite see it properly in full, you see, but you never put it all together, Prophecy comes at us from varied angles. For instance you say that Jason instituted this great enmity against God by the priesthood, yet Israel were toted away to Babylon 300 plus years before this ever happened !! Because God says Israel as a nation sinned against him, they served false gods in high places many years before Jason. Jason was the archetype False Prophet too come, he welcomed Antiochus into the temple to sacrifice a pig on the altar of God and demanded the Jews become Hellenized, however he was overthrown by Antiochus and another High Priest was named, as bad or worse than him, meanwhile the Maccabeans defeated the Greeks after Antiochus was killed by a disease (without hands) on the Eastern front. So, you trying to say it was all on Jason and the Priesthood just does not pass the smell test, God started the 70th week punishment 300 years before those events !! Come on brother. 

On 10/2/2023 at 12:42 PM, WilliamL said:

So the pesha/apostasy began with the corruption of the Hebraic priesthood, and then devolved to the rest of the people. [The same thing that we see today with the Church.] God through Gabriel then prophesied that the 'fulfillment of the pesha' (9:24) would be the destruction of the Temple during the 70th week (9:27). The Temple was the sole place that gave the Hebraic priesthood its authority.

 

I do not care about this at all, WHY? Because God started Israel's punishment 300 plus years before any of this was going on, so none of the 70th week decree can be based on anything that happened in 170ish BC !! Think brother. Why are you trying to correlate a decree that began in 500ish BC with an event that happened 300 years after the Decree was put forth? 

You do understand Daniel is being FORETOLD(via an Angel) those events in Dan. 8 right? The events happened 100s of years later. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Revelation Man

[WilliamL]

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Because God started Israel's punishment 300 plus years before any of this was going on, so none of the 70th week decree can be based on anything that happened in 170ish BC !!

Jesus said otherwise. But you are welcome to believe what you like.

[Revelation Man]

21 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Jesus said otherwise. But you are welcome to believe what you like.

Jesus was speaking to Daniel in Dan. 12:4-7 as the Man in Linen in like 550 BC. I hope you are not one of those who says the book Daniel is a lie and forgery written  contemporaneously with with when the events happened because God can not really foretell events (that's why they say it). 

Otherwise you have no leg to stand on. 

[douggg]

To anyone that can be approached....whether Christian or not...

I would say that Jesus is very soon returning to this world to reign and rule over it and straighten out everything that is wrong in the world.

But right before Jesus's coming, over the course of a 7 year period, in what the bible calls the end times, there will be an evil person commonly called the Antichrist, who at first will appear to be a savior to the world, but goes bad, becoming a tool of Satan - and demands everyone worship him.   

And what follows for the second half of the 7 year period will be what is called the great tribulation by the bible, involving Satan, a world gone mad, and God sending a series of judgments against Satan, who will have been cast down to earth at that time, and his man the Antichrist person.

At the end of the 7 years, Jesus returns in great power with his armies of heaven to end the great tribulation, doing away with the Antichrist person and Satan, setting mankind straight.    And all of our loved ones who have died in Christ over the generations brought back with him.

And not to worry, if you are Christian because God has provided a way to avoid the great tribulation, by a miraculous event called the rapture.   Taken to heaven, while the great tribulation takes place here on earth.    And then returning to earth with Jesus, when He returns.  To rule and reign with Jesus in the Kingdom of God over all the earth.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by douggg

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, douggg said:

To anyone that can be approached....whether Christian or not...

I would say that Jesus is very soon returning to this world to reign and rule over it and straighten out everything that is wrong in the world.

But right before Jesus's coming, over the course of a 7 year period, in what the bible calls the end times, there will be an evil person commonly called the Antichrist, who at first will appear to be a savior to the world, but goes bad, becoming a tool of Satan - and demands everyone worship him.   

And what follows for the second half of the 7 year period will be what is called the great tribulation by the bible, involving Satan, a world gone mad, and God sending a series of judgments against Satan, who will have been cast down to earth at that time, and his man the Antichrist person.

At the end of the 7 years, Jesus returns in great power with his armies of heaven to end the great tribulation, doing away with the Antichrist person and Satan, setting mankind straight.    And all of our loved ones who have died in Christ over the generations brought back with him.

And not to worry, if you are Christian because God has provided a way to avoid the great tribulation, by a miraculous event called the rapture.   Taken to heaven, while the great tribulation takes place here on earth.    And then returning to earth with Jesus, when He returns.  To rule and reign with Jesus in the Kingdom of God over all the earth.

 

 

The man you call antichrist doesn't just go bad .He has been a despicable person almost his entire life.Dude is a narcissist.You don't become like that overnight.