Location of New Jerusalem

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Rev. Man,

Just a point here, Jesus says it is the angels that come with Him after the trib.

JESUS AND HIS HOLY ANGELS.

So who comes with Jesus when He returns in great power and great glory?

When Jesus was on earth the disciples asked Him to tell them about what would happen to Israel & the nations at the end of this age. Jesus told them quite clearly about the tribulation & persecution Israel would endure but that He would come again with His mighty angels to deliver Israel & judge the nations of the world.  

 

 `they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..`                             (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.`  (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

These Holy angels are the army who come with Jesus when he brings vengeance upon the ungodly.

`Then I saw heaven opened and behold a white horse. And He who sat on him was called faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war....And the armies in heaven clothed in fine white linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.` (Rev. 19: 11 & 14)

This is also the description on the angels coming out of the temple in heaven. They symbolically had garments of linen, white and clean. This is to distinguish them as holy angels and not demonic angels.

White horses - represent glory and power.

 

The Bible refers to angels and saints as Holy Ones. We need to check scriptures as to which is spoken of. 

Translation Errors of `Holy Ones.`

Jude 14,  Deut. 33: 2,  Zech. 14: 4.

 

I pretty much answer everything on this above. God Bless

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Ill try to make my case, my friend, good sir AH. 

The Old Testament indeed points to the Kingdom Age where the Jews (with earthly bodies preserved via the Petra area) will serve on this earth with Jesus. That is what is pointed unto. however I didn't even see that in Psalm 8 but alas its everywhere in the old testament. So, saving time I will just move to Rev. 20:4

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them(Church that returns with Jesus in Rev. 19 which is Rev. 16:19 also), and judgment was given unto them:(Church will judge angels, here we judge the Martyrs only as seen Below) and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands(This is VERY SPECIFIC, it says that ONLY THEY who did not receive the Mark of the Beast...........Live and reign with Jesus for the 1000 years); and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So, no one else is eligible, there will be millions who die in the tribulation as Martyrs, they will receive Glorious Bodies. God only needs a certain amount of former men, who now have glorious bodies like unto Angels to help Jesus on earth. After all Jesus is God, I think they mostly stay for symbolism, so the world can see those who the world killed now rule over them. I just do not see us as needed on earth, not over a billion people, who all now have glorious bodies.

Personally, I see the earth as also meaning the future heaven & earth where we will rule as kings & priests with Jesus for eternity. I could have missed something, but I see the specific quote in verse 4 as being a very pin pointed emphasis by God, as per the 1000 year reign, I see it as only the Martyrs who refused the Mark of the Beast. because it says just that. This however is not going to change much like other issues. So, either way, we will be in God's divine will.

Food for thought.

I follow your reasoning. Here is where we differ.

 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

John saw thrones occupied by those to whom judgment was given. FOUR categories are given, each separated by a conjunction. They are;
1. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,
2. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the Word of God,
3. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

... and they (ALL) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

- Those of point #1 start at Stephen of Acts 7. The include all martyrs of the New Testament

- Those of point #2 could start with Abel. It surely includes the slain prophets of old. And includes anyone who suffered because of instructions God gave, verbal or written

- Those of the last 3½ years while the Beast reigns.

But there is a FOURTH group. Notice the beginning of John's statement. There were thrones and they that sat upon them. They are joined to pint #1 with an "AND". That is, point #1 is another group ("and" is cumulative, copulative and sequential) to "those who sat upon them". Who are these first mentioned? They are all the saints who "attained" the standard that God set for them by self-denial and taking up their cross. They are those who "Overcame" the apostasy of the Church. They are the "firstfruits" of Christianity. They are the the man with five Talents and the pounds of Luke 19. They are the quiet little sister who "loved the Lord's coming" and was "watching" (2nd Tim.4:8). They all are promised the kingdom.

But perhaps our outlook differs because of another reason. You mentioned "a billion" Christians eligible for the crown. But scripture says the contrary. Twice , in context of the Kingdom, does the Lord say; "many are called but few are chosen". The Parables of the Kingdom mostly show failure to enter the Kingdom. If we gave an arbitrary number to the Churches in Revelation Chapters 2 and 3 of, say, 200 per Church, then we have seven Churches of which only Philadelphia produces 200 Overcomers. Six other Churches have to be threatened. Thus, we have 200 out of 1,400 Christians. But even this is optimistic for Philadelphia is warned. The good servant of Matthew 24 BECAME a bad servant.

I do not know how many Christians there are at the coming of the Lord. But after 44 years as a Christian and traveling the world, I doubt of the Western World has 1% Christians. The Eastern half of the world, where the big populations live, probably cannot even boast 1 tenth of 1%. The Lord's government is local. That is, on average 1 king per city (Lk.19:17-19). If "FEW are chosen" will there be enough Overcomers for the whole world?

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc,

Sleep well. We do seem to have such different views. but no matter as we know the Holy Spirit is leading us into all truth so we can be rest assured that finally we will all know the full truth. Meanwhile we keep presenting what we do believe and as `iron sharpens iron,` we will learn from each other and others of course.

1. Dan. 2 is referring to the earthly part of God`s great kingdom for ISRAEL to rule.  God made the heavens also and there is rulership there too.

2.Now I DID NOT say that every time you see `saints` it means angels, only that a few times the Greek word is actually `holy ones,` which can be angels. (See Jude 14 & Zech. 14: 5) Jesus specifically said that the angels would come with Him at the end of the trib.

 `they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..`                             (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.`  (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

3. The wedding feast refers to God connecting again with ISRAEL. (Isa. 54: 5 & 6,  Hos. 3: 19 & 20 etc)

 

 

It is not disputed that our Lord Jesus comes with His angels. They are servants, and they have their place in His administration. But note Hebrews 2.

5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death ...

The word "world" in the Greek means "the inhabited earth". Angels will "minster" to men at the instructions of our Lord. What we discuss is whether God has been prevented by some force to give up on His councils in Genesis 1:26-28. The Kingdom OF Heaven is to be set up on earth. Israel forfeit the Kingdom by the rejection of the King (Matt.21:43). It is now given to another people. This people are informed that they will be "caught away" to the clouds before the change of government. In the air they face judgment. Our difference of opinion is; WILL THEY COME BACK OR BE LEFT IN THE AIR?

Israel were offered the Kingdom during our Lord's ministry. They refused it and its KING. Their future is not to rule the earth. They will be ruled by Jesus - the top Christian. David will be second in command (Jer.30:9) - a Christian who wrote extensively about Messiah in the Psalms. And the 12 Apostles - Christians will rule Tribes. Luke 19:17-19 says that servants of Jesus will rule cities. Matthew 8 says that the "children of the kingdom" are excluded and will weep. Israel is favored by Covenants and God will fulfill them. But Israel have nothing to do with the kingdom. You have to be born again and Baptized to enter the kingdom and this is by FAITH - which Israel did not display. They remain so till the appearing of Christ says Romans 11.

Daniel 2 is written in Aramaic because it concerns THE NATIONS. From Chapter 8 Daniel returns to Hebrew. The Kingdom prophesied about in Daniel 2 is Gentile government replaced by the Overcomer of the Church. Israel is prophesied to regain its place as most favored Nation on earth, but of them regaining the kingdom, not a word is said - though the disciples asked about this in Acts 1.

The Wedding Feast is refused by Israel. The Parable is clear and the resulting destruction of their city is well documented (Matt.22:1-14). The Bride of Jesus Christ cannot be Israel. The Bride of Christ is typified by Eve. The bride of Christ is those who were IN Christ at His death and came out of Him (Jn.12:24). Israel came out of Jacob according to the flesh. The Church, one loaf, came out of Christ. far from coming out of Jesus, the Jews are five times accused of killing Him. far from being His Lover, the Jews hate Christ. Far from being His people in this age, Israel is "Lo-ammi - you are not my people!"

I understand your sentiments toward Israel. It is the saddest story on earth. Paul, in Romans 9 wished he could barter his salvation for Israel's. But the end is glorious. Israel will be resurrected and restored to a greater glory than Solomon's kingdom. Jesus Christ will live in their City - Jerusalem. The nations will flow into Jerusalem. Jesus House will supersede anything yet built. the Levites will serve Him in holiness. David's House will show forth a God Who keeps His Covenants.

But Israel forfeit the kingdom. Ex-Gentile and ex-Jew who have embraced Christ and belong, by a new birth to the New Man, will rule instead. 

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

 

And isn't that what @AdHoc and @Revelation Man are saying too?  I've read through the posts a couple times and I'm not seeing exactly where the difference in thinking is.  (and I don't have a sleepy head as an excuse - just a little dense sometimes . . .)  Can someone explain the differences in viewpoints here?

Thx

Our esteemed sister @Marilyn C has the kings of the earth ruling remotely from heaven. That is, they do not return with Christ. You might have a point. We have written much on one point, but agree on essentials. One thing is good though. If we are reduced to arguing a minor point, all is well. The debate is energetic but courteous.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

It is not disputed that our Lord Jesus comes with His angels. They are servants, and they have their place in His administration. But note Hebrews 2.

5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death ...

The word "world" in the Greek means "the inhabited earth". Angels will "minster" to men at the instructions of our Lord. What we discuss is whether God has been prevented by some force to give up on His councils in Genesis 1:26-28. The Kingdom OF Heaven is to be set up on earth. Israel forfeit the Kingdom by the rejection of the King (Matt.21:43). It is now given to another people. This people are informed that they will be "caught away" to the clouds before the change of government. In the air they face judgment. Our difference of opinion is; WILL THEY COME BACK OR BE LEFT IN THE AIR?

Israel were offered the Kingdom during our Lord's ministry. They refused it and its KING. Their future is not to rule the earth. They will be ruled by Jesus - the top Christian. David will be second in command (Jer.30:9) - a Christian who wrote extensively about Messiah in the Psalms. And the 12 Apostles - Christians will rule Tribes. Luke 19:17-19 says that servants of Jesus will rule cities. Matthew 8 says that the "children of the kingdom" are excluded and will weep. Israel is favored by Covenants and God will fulfill them. But Israel have nothing to do with the kingdom. You have to be born again and Baptized to enter the kingdom and this is by FAITH - which Israel did not display. They remain so till the appearing of Christ says Romans 11.

Daniel 2 is written in Aramaic because it concerns THE NATIONS. From Chapter 8 Daniel returns to Hebrew. The Kingdom prophesied about in Daniel 2 is Gentile government replaced by the Overcomer of the Church. Israel is prophesied to regain its place as most favored Nation on earth, but of them regaining the kingdom, not a word is said - though the disciples asked about this in Acts 1.

The Wedding Feast is refused by Israel. The Parable is clear and the resulting destruction of their city is well documented (Matt.22:1-14). The Bride of Jesus Christ cannot be Israel. The Bride of Christ is typified by Eve. The bride of Christ is those who were IN Christ at His death and came out of Him (Jn.12:24). Israel came out of Jacob according to the flesh. The Church, one loaf, came out of Christ. far from coming out of Jesus, the Jews are five times accused of killing Him. far from being His Lover, the Jews hate Christ. Far from being His people in this age, Israel is "Lo-ammi - you are not my people!"

I understand your sentiments toward Israel. It is the saddest story on earth. Paul, in Romans 9 wished he could barter his salvation for Israel's. But the end is glorious. Israel will be resurrected and restored to a greater glory than Solomon's kingdom. Jesus Christ will live in their City - Jerusalem. The nations will flow into Jerusalem. Jesus House will supersede anything yet built. the Levites will serve Him in holiness. David's House will show forth a God Who keeps His Covenants.

But Israel forfeit the kingdom. Ex-Gentile and ex-Jew who have embraced Christ and belong, by a new birth to the New Man, will rule instead. 

Christ is the king of Israel and Israel will rule over the nations in the Lord's land.

 

Isaiah 14:2

Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.

 

This verse will be fulfilled after Babylon is destroyed.The same Babylon in revelation.The same people ruling in the above verse are the same people reigning with Christ in his kingdom in revelation 20.

 

Revelation 20

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Christ is the king of Israel and Israel will rule over the nations in the Lord's land.

 

Isaiah 14:2

Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.

 

This verse will be fulfilled after Babylon is destroyed.The same Babylon in revelation.The same people ruling in the above verse are the same people reigning with Christ in his kingdom in revelation 20.

 

Revelation 20

⁴ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

While your appreciation of Isaiah 14 surely has merit, you'll have to show how Israel had "the witness of Jesus", how they kept the Word of God but were still chastised by having "captors", and how they did not worship the Beast but allowed him to dwell in the Holy of Holies in Jerusalem.

Then you have to explain how "Nations will bring them to their own place when at the time Babylon is destroyed, ANGELS bring them to their place (Matt.24:31). Are you not putting the Babylonian "captors" who were defeated by the Medes as Captors of Israel in the last days?

But, there is another issue which needs solving. As you know, you can't pit one scripture against another. This makes the whole Bible of none effect. You have to reconcile the seeming opposing scriptures. That means you have to deal with Matthew 21:43, and why David and the 12 Apostles rule over Israel when they are Christians.

But if Isaiah 14 is a prophecy of the time when Cyrus gave the permission and resources to return to their Land and then jumps to the last days, like Daniel does, then the nation that they rule over is the much weakened Babylon AFTER Cyrus defeated her without a fight.

It's not so easy.

[Shilohsfoal]

3 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

While your appreciation of Isaiah 14 surely has merit, you'll have to show how Israel had "the witness of Jesus", how they kept the Word of God but were still chastised by having "captors", and how they did not worship the Beast but allowed him to dwell in the Holy of Holies in Jerusalem.

Then you have to explain how "Nations will bring them to their own place when at the time Babylon is destroyed, ANGELS bring them to their place (Matt.24:31). Are you not putting the Babylonian "captors" who were defeated by the Medes as Captors of Israel in the last days?

But, there is another issue which needs solving. As you know, you can't pit one scripture against another. This makes the whole Bible of none effect. You have to reconcile the seeming opposing scriptures. That means you have to deal with Matthew 21:43, and why David and the 12 Apostles rule over Israel when they are Christians.

But if Isaiah 14 is a prophecy of the time when Cyrus gave the permission and resources to return to their Land and then jumps to the last days, like Daniel does, then the nation that they rule over is the much weakened Babylon AFTER Cyrus defeated her without a fight.

It's not so easy.

It's very easy.Jesus spoke about Israel throughout the gospel and how they will be killed for testifying of him to the Jews.

Just as Jesus preached the gospel throughout the cities of Israel ,Israel shall preach the gospel throughout the cities of Israel.They will be betrayed to death by parents and children .They will be hated by everyone for the name of Yeshua.

 

What,you don't believe the words of Jesus can be fulfilled?

 

Mathew 10

¹⁶ Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

¹⁷ But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

¹⁸ And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

¹⁹ But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

²⁰ For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

²¹ And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

²² And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

²³ But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

 

And by the way.The beast is the Israeli government.The Israelis who die in Israel testifying of Christ and who do not worship the Israeli government,it's kingdom and do not receive its mark shall live and reign with Christ in the Lord's land just as Isaiah had written.

 

It's not hard to understand at all.

[Revelation Man]

On 10/7/2023 at 7:26 AM, AdHoc said:

John saw thrones occupied by those to whom judgment was given. FOUR categories are given, each separated by a conjunction. They are;
1. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,
2. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the Word of God,
3. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

... and they (ALL) lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I do not know your Rapture TIMING position off hand, but this is why the understanding of the Raptures timing has to be correct.  There are no souls that is being spoken about here in Rev. 20:4 except the souls who have yet to be raised and judged, the Pre Trib Rapture has seen those people already raised, we see them in Rev. 19:6-17 Marrying the Lamb then returning with the Lamb. We see them also in Rev. 4:4, 5:9 and 7:9-16, which all happen after the Marriage as seen in Rev. 19. So, you are taking the AND in which John used 1200 times in the book of Revelation, because he was seeing the visions so fast, and kind of inferring that John is speaking about different sub-sets, he is not doing that here imho, he's describing ONE GROUP of people who died as Martyrs during the 70th week, mostly during the last 3.5 years. He saw the Souls that were BEHEADED (Murdered) for the witness of God AND Jesus who are both God of course. And they also did not take the Mark of the Beast These are all 70th week Martyrs. The Bride returns with Jesus in Rev. 19.

So, since and is used 1200 times in 20 plus chapters, we can take that as a style that John needed to use, he was seeing the visions in quick succession and writing and, and, and, and, over and over, because the visions were coming, boom, boom, boom, boom. he says over and over, THAT HE SAW........SAW.....SAW........SAW. He was merely writing the visions he saw, not saying these were different categories, in my opinion.

So, if we get the Rapture correct, from my perspective, those from Stephens time have already been judged, married the Lamb, and returned with Jesus as Rev. 19. shows us.

The Jews are raised at the 2nd coming, but its a given Daniel and the other Jews will be a part pf the Kingdom Age, but not the Church/Bride. Anyway, I think all of these ANDS are just John writing in a fashion because the visions are coming at him very fast and he says and I saw, and I saw, and I saw, over and over.

As per THE NUMBER, 5 of 10 Virgins will be left, so since there are 2 Billion Christians on this earth I see it as 1 Billion Raptured pre trib. The rest will go through the 70th week. Some will become those Martyrs. Many sadly will take the Mark of the Beast. 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Revelation Man

[angels4u]

On 10/7/2023 at 3:56 AM, Revelation Man said:

Whole lot of snuff to chew on there. Sorry about not answering sooner but had to go change my bed ridden mom, then my kitties had messed up a few things, I have 4 little darlings about 7 weeks old. 

P.S. I am going to freak you out a wee bit here probably, but just think it through. Not on all things but a few things that have been pillars of truths are just nit factual, things I also believed for 30 plus years, and I can pretty much show why we went down wrong roads on this things.

Mostly, the Saints as used by the Prophets and John referred unto the nation of Israel, even in a generic term when not speaking about those saved it seems, but for sure those Jews who are seen as Faithful unto God, and we see this in Rev. 17 where God had John wrote this.

Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken(Harlot/ALL False Religion of All Time) with the blood of the saints, AND with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

John makes sure to let us know this Harlot (False Religion) was on both sides of the cross, she killed the [Jewish/Israeli] Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus, both Jews and Gentiles who are in Christ. 

So, I see the Saints, when used by the Prophets/Disciples as meaning Israel's Faithful for sure, and generically all Jews in general. We have seen ourselves (Church) as Saints, and that's OK by me, but I think the Prophets usually referred to the Saints as Israel. 

I think this mostly refers to Israeli Saints or the 2/3 who never repented and die as Zech. 13:8-9 says, 1/3 will repent and call God God and he will bring them through the fire, and 2/3 will refuse to repent and be killed. So, since the 1//3 is The Woman (Rev. 12) who flee Judea unto the Petra/Bozrah area where God protects them, then they can not be the "Saints" (Jews) who the Anti-Christ overcomes, it can only be the 2/3 who refuse to repent, thus the word Saint there has to be used for Jews in general. The Gentiles who are killed are Martyrs, we will not be protected if we miss the pre trib Rapture. 

Here is one of the freaky WOW points, the Remnant in Rev. 12:17 CAN NOT be Jewish, it can only be the Remnant [Gentile] Church, and I can prove it, which also proves the pre trib rapture. Watch this, it is so cool !! Chills when we see it.

Rev. 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth(angry he could not get at Israel) with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant(Small part) of her seed(Jesus/Gal 3:16), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

See it? 

So, Satan tries to kill the Woman (Israel who repents) but God protects her in the Wilderness (Petra/Bozrah) and like in Egypt the earth PROTECTED Israel, remember the Wall of Fire and the Sea parted !! So, God uses the earth to protect Israel from the Anti-Christ Army (flood).

Thus Satan now goes after the REMNANT (Small part left behind on earth) of her (Israel's) SEED (Jesus is that ONE SEED, Gal. 3:16 says not of many seeds but of ONE SEED, and that seed is Christ Jesus). So, all we have to do is think it through, who is the only entity that can be that Remnant? The Church on earth, whilst "The Church" is in heaven marrying the Lamb Jesus. It can not be the 1/3 Jews who repent, Satan can not get at the Woman and turns to go after the Remnant of Jesus her seed. It can not be the 2/3 of the Jews who do not Repent, because they do not have the TESTIMONY of Jesus, nor do they keep the Commandments of God, nor can 2/3 be a Remnant anyway. SEE IT NOW?

Only the Gentile Church can be the Remnant of Israel's SEED (Jesus). The Gentiles who repent during the 70th week are not protected like the Woman, but why? Because we had 2000 years to come unto Christ, Israel as a nation was blinded until the fulness of the Gentiles (Rapture) came in. So, those who missed the wedding call must lay down their lives and n many cases a lot will die via God's Wrath, 1/3 of the world will burn, just like with tornados and hurricanes, Christians will die. But Israel has to be protected so God can keep His promises to Abraham of a Kingdom Age where Israel rules with the Messiah.

I see the Jewish Saints being raised and they are a part of the Kingdom Age, Daniel is told he will stand in his lot at the very end. I think the Bride of Christ will return to heaven t help build the New Jerusalem, after we return with Jesus, and Rev. 19 clearly says the Bride is those in FINE WHITE LINEN, then the Army who returns with Jesus are in fine white linen. Then the Tribulation Martyrs will rule with Christ, the tribulation Saints who die (Jewish "Saints") were not of Christ, they will IMHO, be raised at the 2nd Resurrection, judged and condemned , the Saints who repented and fled unto Judea = The Woman. Satan and the Anti-Christ will conquer "The Saints" but its referring to Israel in general. He will not be able to get at the Jewish Saints who repent and flee unto the Petra/Bozrah area where God will protect them for 42 months.

ICOMING SHOCKER.............Smile. 

The 144,000 are the same people as "The Woman" in Rev. 12, read my thread on the book of Revelation, I explain all of this via the bible and in modern every day lingo also. But why?

There is no such thing as 144,000 super preachers its a myth never once even suggested. We see them as Sealed and do not realize we are also Sealed by the Holy Spirit. God order the Four Winds (Judgment) to be heled up and says HURT NOT, to Earth, Sea nor Trees until the "144,000" have been Sealed or saved. Well, God was not going to give Satan his real numbers, He says he has saved Himself 7000 in Isaiah, He says these 144,000 will be saved/sealed and He says in Zech. 13:8-9 that 1/3 will be saved or repent. The first two are CODES, whenever we see "perfect numbers" a red flag should go up to que us in. God uses numbers to inform us in general without pre telling Satan His plans. We know 7 = Divine Completion, 10 = Completion and 12 = Fulness so when we see 7000 we should understand that is 7 x 10 x 10 x 10 or Divine Completion  [times] x Completion. When we see 144,000 we should understand that is 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 or Fulness [times] x Completeness. Or in both cases ALL Israel who repents, not every Jew, but as a Nation Israel is preserved or saved. 

So, what God is showing us here is the Woman (144,000) or Israel who repents and flees Judea JUST BEFORE God's Wrath falls in Rev. 8, the Seals merely unlock the Scroll of God's Wrath. The Seals are not Judgments, but instead are Prophetic in nature, thus just as Joel 2:31 foretells of the Asteroid Impact (DOTL) so to does Seal #6. Seals 1-5 foretells if 5 things the Anti-Christ will bring to pass when God allows him to go forth. God's Wrath and the Beasts reign parallel over the same 42 month period. 

Those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 are the Church Age Bride, now in heaven via the Rapture. We came out of great tribulation, not the greatest ever troubles. In the 5th Seal (which is prophetic in nature or Jesus knowing the Future) Jesus tells those Martyrs they MUST WAIT until ALL of their brothers have been killed in like manner as them, so thy can not get Raptured during the 70th week, besides, Rev. 20:4 proves the Martyrs only get judged AFTER Jesus' 2nd coming. Those seen in Rev. 7:9-16 can only be the Pre Trib Church, who are in heaven as the Bride of Christ as seen in Rev. 7. 

The first half of the 70th week is peace, so no deaths per se. The Seals are Jesus opening a Scroll, nothing more, and Prophesying what will soon come once the 7th Seal is off, that is why Seal #7 SKIPS from Ch. 6, OVER Revelation chapter 7 where the Jews Flee Judea, to ch. 8 whare God's Wrath hits, AFTER the Jews are protected in ch. 7. Most everyone conflates the TIMELINES to be honest.

 

Sorry ,I didn't get back to you earlier,I watched what is going on now in Israel and wonder where this will lead us,from what I understand Russia and Iran are involved ,I pray God will rescue His people soon,thanks for your long reply,I do have to study and let it sink in slowly ,I agree most most you wrote but have to think about a couple of things,how are the kitties? They bring joy in your life ? My heart is very burdened by what is going on in the Middle East..

Where do you think we're now in Biblical pages?

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, angels4u said:

Sorry ,I didn't get back to you earlier,I watched what is going on now in Israel and wonder where this will lead us,from what I understand Russia and Iran are involved ,I pray God will rescue His people soon,thanks for your long reply,I do have to study and let it sink in slowly ,I agree most most you wrote but have to think about a couple of things,how are the kitties? They bring joy in your life ? My heart is very burdened by what is going on in the Middle East..

Where do you think we're now in Biblical pages?

I am a softie via pets I guess, I saw two pregnant mom kitties who were feral cats starving to death, and of course I started feeding them. One had 4, after 3 weeks they were huge the Vet said, but all caught something and died in my arms, my sisters and brothers wondered wondered why it bothered me so much I cried, you just can't explain why if people don't get it. The other had 5 but was a small cat, the last one died, but her four are doing great, one sleeps with me every night, they are going to be OK it seems. On March 16 my buddy Bama (he was 15 years old on Mar. 2) died of cancer, so I guess these little guys replaced my little buddy. Need to name them.

On a Thread I posted on this site I show how scriptures tell what is coming then in a REPLY to myself I retell it it in modern ingo without all the codes seen in Revelation. Need to do the same on Daniel. Can be seen here more in depth, but I will put forth a short answer below also.

 

I see the Rapture as the Fall of 2025. When we hear no one knows the Day nor Hour people do not understand what that means. Its a reference unto the Lunar Moon Cycles the Feasts all fell on, thus it was God Time Israel were on. The New Moon decided what days the Feast fell on, not a calendar. Thus Israel never knew the exact day not hour, but they knew within a couple of days by looking at the moon phases they were in. So, it was never a surprise, they knew the Feast would on a day.......or the next day, so within 2 days, they then got two men to go up into the hills to spy this out and once they sent word back the new moon was at hand the Trumps started blowing, they blew in 11 sets of 9 or 99 times, then on the "Last Trump" it blew longer and louder and officially ended the Harvest. Jesus likewise is saying only the Father knows the exact day and hour (a reference to the lunar calendar) in which He will send Jesus back, but we should know the SEASON, just as Israel always knew the Harvest season ended in the fall, we should know the year and that it will be fulfilled in the fall, just like the Three Spring Feasts were fulfilled in the spring by Jesus. We are know in the Summer Harvest (we harvest souls as the Bride soon to be wed).

So, we can't know in the natural, but we know that an Asteroid Impact will start the DOTL/God's Wrath in Rev.8, so why not look to the middle of the week event for a sort of sign or marker? Apophis will hit IMHO, on April 13, 2029. So, by taking 3.5 years off of that I see a Pre Trib Rapture in the fall of 2025. I do not profess to know the Day nor the Hour. But we should know The Season.

Why was all this needed? Well, if the Pre Trib Rapture is going to happen in the fall of 2025, then I think the Gog and Magog war has to happen between now and 2025. That event in my opinion is what pushes Israel into joining the E.U. which I see as the Agreement (Covenant) they enter into that kindles God's anger and starts the 70th week penance. Which kicks off the "TIMING of the Rapture". 

Jesus will be ruling on this earth by 2033.