Is it shallow, For God to judge Sodom and Gomorrah Nations ? Or is it Justified ? it is several questions that is on my mind right now.

[believeinHim]

Is it shallow, For God to judge Sodom and Gomorrah ? In the Bible, Money is the root of all kinds of Evil, And Sexual Immorality is taken as the worst sin because you sin against your own body. When God does Sodom and Gomorrah cities, Does he take innocent civilians with him ?

The logical, female side of my brain wants to rationalize, and think that it is no big deal, and blame the male side of my brain for being overly emotional, and overly sensitive. The jealous husband who flies in to a rage at his cheating wife.

That same side of my brain, Agrees with the female side of my brain, In where it is absolutely justified for God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Twice. Three times. However many times it needs to be done! And that actually sounds like the male side, not the female side!

Is it justified, or is it shallow? Is it masculine, or is it feminine? I know this is not the only reason for why God's people will be judged, I know there are so many more things in there, but some of the most severe, and things that come to the forefront that lead to all the others, are those two things. Men, will turn in to thieves and steal from people, in order to spend it on their women! That's also somewhere Biblical!

Men will turn in to thieves on behalf of beautiful women, and they will murder other men who get in their way. Look at David, and Bethsheba! And her husband!

This is my limited knowledge of what is going on. Sarai, Sarah, what have you, however it is, I listened at a church was the start of all this, with her using her help meet, to conceive a child with her husband. From there, Abraham's offspring have just gone berserk! Both of them!

So, Is it shallow for God to take such drastic actions against his people? Is it shallow? This type of behavior I am describing hurt innocent civilians, and innocent people alon the way. Widows, orphans, women, children. Are women innocent ? Will civilian casualties, and innocent people be wrapped up along the way in the judgment, and is this justified?

Does God care about the innocent people who get wrapped up in the judgement of destroying nations, and towns? Is there such thing as an innocent person in a society who becomes like this ?

I know this sounds like it belongs in controversial issues, but it is a question, and it is on my mind right now, and it is several questions, and I don't know how I think about it. My brain is in conflict with my emotional, and my logical. :(.        

Edited October 18, 2023 by believeinHim

[Who me]

21 hours ago, believeinHim said:

Does he take innocent civilians with him ?

Please reread the account of Lot  Abraham and Sodom and Gomorrah.  You will find that there where No innocent civilians in those cities. 

The bible makes it very clear, we have ALL  sinned.

Only one person never sinned and that was Jesus.

So if everybody  is a sinner, God is just in punishing them.

[FJK]

23 hours ago, believeinHim said:

When God does Sodom and Gomorrah cities, Does he take innocent civilians with him ?

He told the innocent "civilians", Lot and his family, to leave.

That is what the story is about, Lot being told to leave the city because he was not deserving of the punishment to be inflicted on it, how he called out to to God to save those who were innocent and how he found out there were none to save.

There is much to learn from this story, much more than is seen on the surface of it.

God's judgment is just and takes place on a level that men cannot understand because God knows all and we only know a little.

[RdJ]

This was not an ordinary city. A whole city full of homosexual gang rapers and no hospitality. That's the end stage of a depraved society I read somewhere.

Genesis 19

Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.”

 

Nineve for instance, God said they don't know their left from their right hand.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Renskedejonge

[Scott Free]

On 10/18/2023 at 6:20 AM, believeinHim said:

My brain is in conflict with my emotional, and my logical. :(.

"You can’t get through life without some harm…. I think we all agree that it is wrong to stick a needle into a baby. That’s horrible. But, if that baby needs a life-saving injection, we will cause that harm, we will do that. The baby won’t understand it, but we will do that because there is a greater good." - Butt/Barker Debate. Some food for thought. I hope it helps

Edited October 19, 2023 by Scott Free

[Anne2]

5 hours ago, Scott Free said:

"You can’t get through life without some harm…. I think we all agree that it is wrong to stick a needle into a baby. That’s horrible. But, if that baby needs a life-saving injection, we will cause that harm, we will do that. The baby won’t understand it, but we will do that because there is a greater good." - Butt/Barker Debate. Some food for thought. I hope it helps

How many babies were born in a city full of homosexuals?

Because of the cry......A great ( many, many) cry

Ge 18:20  And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Ge 18:21  I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
Ge 19:13  For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.

Was it this?.......
Ge 4:10  And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground.
Ge 9:5  And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man’s brother will I require the life of man.
Ge 9:6  Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Because of this....

Ge 4:26  And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
Ge 4:15  And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
De 32:35  To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
 

[Scott Free]

7 hours ago, Anne2 said:

How many babies were born

I am not clear on your point. I would see the baby being inoculated as Israel or humanity in general. The example of Sodom could of saved Israel and western civilization from a severe sickness. We know civilizations collapse after they coddle perversion and boast in their inclusiveness.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Scott Free

[Anne2]

14 hours ago, Scott Free said:

I am not clear on your point. I would see the baby being inoculated as Israel or humanity in general. The example of Sodom could of saved Israel and western civilization from a severe sickness. We know civilizations collapse after they coddle perversion and boast in their inclusiveness.

It was a response to another posters question. In short asking if God did something wrong in Judgement.

Ge 18:25  That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
God knew what Abe did not.......

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

On 10/18/2023 at 7:20 AM, believeinHim said:

Is it shallow, For God to judge Sodom and Gomorrah ? In the Bible, Money is the root of all kinds of Evil,

 

Hello believeinhim, 

It is the love of money (not money itself)

1 Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, 
they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

On 10/18/2023 at 7:20 AM, believeinHim said:

And Sexual Immorality is taken as the worst sin because you sin against your own body. When God does Sodom and Gomorrah cities, Does he take innocent civilians with him ?

I am just posting these for you in one place so you can see for yourself and anyone who might be following along

Genesis 18:20-33
 [20] And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
[21] I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
[22] And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
[23] And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
[24] Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
[25] That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
[26] And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
[27] And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
[28] Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
[29] And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
[30] And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
[31] And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
[32] And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
[33] And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

The LORD would spare the place if there were just ten righteous in it.  There was just Lot and his his wife and two daughters because his sons and laws thought he was mocking, so less than half of ten (four in all) his wife looking back didn't make it, so only three in all (so He would not spare the place)

2 Peter 2:6-10

[6]And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
[7] And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
[8] (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
[9] The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
[10] But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled,they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

And so when Abraham asked, "Peradventure ten shall be found there" the LORD said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. Lot's family was half of that number, even Noah had more with him (they were eight souls)

So there was not ten in the place and these were not destroyed with the place as the others were ungodly were

Genesis 9:12 
[12]And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
[13] For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us  to destroy it
[14] And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
[15] And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

And so delivered just Lot as The LORd knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations as Peter wrote.

Same is shown previously in Noah, a preacher of righteousness and all his house, where there were only eight souls in all saved by water

Genesis 7:1 
[1]And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this  generation.

In both these pictures the LORD did not slay the righteous with the wicked but delivered the rigteous and their houses out of it.

On 10/18/2023 at 7:20 AM, believeinHim said:

Men will turn in to thieves on behalf of beautiful women, and they will murder other men who get in their way. Look at David, and Bethsheba! And her husband!

The breaking of the commandments is shown to happen in scripture, shown in David also, God said to him

2 Sam 12:9-12 
[9]Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
[10] Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
[11] Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. 
[12] For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.

And David was known to be a man after Gods heart but the LORD said when he did what he did David despised Him in despising the commandment of the LORD (in beaking it).

1 Kings 12:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

So here we see, "all have sinned" and fallen short of the glory of God, David is not exempt from this "all have".

 

On 10/18/2023 at 7:20 AM, believeinHim said:

This is my limited knowledge of what is going on. Sarai, Sarah, what have you, however it is, I listened at a church was the start of all this, with her using her help meet, to conceive a child with her husband. From there, Abraham's offspring have just gone berserk! Both of them!

It might be helpful to read Hosea 12:10 in relationship to "the things" of the prophet Abraham as they are shown in similar fashion in Gal 4:24 which reads, "Which things are an allegory." These two women represent two covenants. This is what Paul spoke of when he wrote in 1Cr 2:13 "Which things also we speak", not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things  with spiritual. See also Gal 4:29-31

Paul also said, 

1 Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And Paul praying for them to this end

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding

I just wanted to post the references to the scripture out fully for both you and whoever might be reading because I find that helpful, I know it was to me. 

Peace in Christ

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by AFlameOfFire
Horrid typos

[Marilyn C]

On 10/18/2023 at 10:20 PM, believeinHim said:

Is it shallow, For God to judge Sodom and Gomorrah ? In the Bible, Money is the root of all kinds of Evil, And Sexual Immorality is taken as the worst sin because you sin against your own body. When God does Sodom and Gomorrah cities, Does he take innocent civilians with him ?

The logical, female side of my brain wants to rationalize, and think that it is no big deal, and blame the male side of my brain for being overly emotional, and overly sensitive. The jealous husband who flies in to a rage at his cheating wife.

That same side of my brain, Agrees with the female side of my brain, In where it is absolutely justified for God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Twice. Three times. However many times it needs to be done! And that actually sounds like the male side, not the female side!

Is it justified, or is it shallow? Is it masculine, or is it feminine? I know this is not the only reason for why God's people will be judged, I know there are so many more things in there, but some of the most severe, and things that come to the forefront that lead to all the others, are those two things. Men, will turn in to thieves and steal from people, in order to spend it on their women! That's also somewhere Biblical!

Men will turn in to thieves on behalf of beautiful women, and they will murder other men who get in their way. Look at David, and Bethsheba! And her husband!

This is my limited knowledge of what is going on. Sarai, Sarah, what have you, however it is, I listened at a church was the start of all this, with her using her help meet, to conceive a child with her husband. From there, Abraham's offspring have just gone berserk! Both of them!

So, Is it shallow for God to take such drastic actions against his people? Is it shallow? This type of behavior I am describing hurt innocent civilians, and innocent people alon the way. Widows, orphans, women, children. Are women innocent ? Will civilian casualties, and innocent people be wrapped up along the way in the judgment, and is this justified?

Does God care about the innocent people who get wrapped up in the judgement of destroying nations, and towns? Is there such thing as an innocent person in a society who becomes like this ?

I know this sounds like it belongs in controversial issues, but it is a question, and it is on my mind right now, and it is several questions, and I don't know how I think about it. My brain is in conflict with my emotional, and my logical. :(.        

Hi believeinHim,

There is something worse than pain and suffering on this damaged earth - an eternity of pain and suffering. 

And God has His purposes that will be fulfilled, He knows the big picture whereas we just see a small part which has terrible pain and suffering. 

Then remember what the Lord did - came from glory where He was worshipped by myriads of angelic beings, came as a mere babe, grew up and went about doing good but was cruelly treated, marred more than any man, (God`s word says) and could have called a legion of angels to help Him but He suffered so that no one need suffer ever again.

People need to only call out to God and He will help them. 

 

Finally, `Sodom and Gomorrah,` is just a small judgment, what is coming very soon is the great judgment of God upon the whole rebellious world.