AN INQUIRING MIND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW

[Dennis1209]

There have been several threads and comments on the number of resurrections and when lately (tribulation saints, the church Rapture, under the alter saints, etc.). I do not recollect a discussion on the following recently that only Matthew very briefly records. It raises many more questions than answers. Perhaps there is a relationship between the 144,000 and tribulation saints; I do not know.

Are quickened (made alive) those asleep, which slept, and resurrection all the same, or are there special resurrections, or just (quickened) made physically alive once again?

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

• Were these saints resurrected, glorified, and eventually taken to heaven, or returned from whence they came?
• It is unusual in several ways. One of which is scholars and theologians on the several commentaries I consulted are stumped, with no firm theology.
• Did these “many” saints physically die twice, as assumed with Lazarus and the others raised from the dead?
• For such a monumental and significant event, only Matthew briefly mentions it in the synoptic Gospels. This lack of clarification has to be intentional, I assume.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: [Are there notable exceptions to this before the general Rapture?]

Did the apostle Paul have anything in mind when he quoted:

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Matthew 27:52-53 is one of those mysteries I cannot even form an opinion on. How about you?

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

I am the same as you on this one Dennis1209, one thing I am grateful for though is Paul's words concerning, Hymenaeus and Philetus

2 Ti 2:17 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already;

and overthrow the faith of some.

The picture in the gospels could likely give anyone the initial idea that after Christ's resurrection that the resurrection is past by it, how easy that would be to think so there.

Paul's words inform us that this is not the case, whether that idea sprang from there or not, I do not know.

I do not know how to work with that one yet. I'll have to sit this one out and follow along

Good topic!

God richly bless you 

 

 

 

[Michael37]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

It raises many more questions than answers. Perhaps there is a relationship between the 144,000 and tribulation saints; I do not know.

David Jeremiah has an abundance of material about this.

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Most likely these were translated to heaven . . . Eph 4:7-8  But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift.  (8)  Therefore He says: "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, AND GAVE GIFTS TO MEN." . . . never to face death again.

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

There have been several threads and comments on the number of resurrections and when lately (tribulation saints, the church Rapture, under the alter saints, etc.). I do not recollect a discussion on the following recently that only Matthew very briefly records. It raises many more questions than answers. Perhaps there is a relationship between the 144,000 and tribulation saints; I do not know.

Are quickened (made alive) those asleep, which slept, and resurrection all the same, or are there special resurrections, or just (quickened) made physically alive once again?

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

• Were these saints resurrected, glorified, and eventually taken to heaven, or returned from whence they came?
• It is unusual in several ways. One of which is scholars and theologians on the several commentaries I consulted are stumped, with no firm theology.
• Did these “many” saints physically die twice, as assumed with Lazarus and the others raised from the dead?
• For such a monumental and significant event, only Matthew briefly mentions it in the synoptic Gospels. This lack of clarification has to be intentional, I assume.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: [Are there notable exceptions to this before the general Rapture?]

Did the apostle Paul have anything in mind when he quoted:

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Matthew 27:52-53 is one of those mysteries I cannot even form an opinion on. How about you?

Resurrection is a harvest. We are "planted", or "sown" in death and our Lord is the Firstfruits of them that sleep. The the shadow of Christ's resurrection is the Wave Offering. And Jehovah, Lord of the Harvest, has decreed a sheaf - not an ear (Lev.23:11) to be waved (indicating life and animation) "on the morrow after the Sabbath" - the day of Christ's resurrection. So, on the same day as our Lord was resurrected, a company of saints joined Him to make the "sheaf". But to maintain Christ's preeminence, notice the word "AFTER" in Matthew 27:52. Our Lord was resurrected very early. the others sometime after, but on the same day.

They were most probably raptured to heaven. Hebrews 9:27 is emphatic. There is not a single record of a man dying twice. It would cause massive problems for our Lord. A man dies because of what Adam did (Rom.5:12-17). A man's resurrection body is made by the Holy Spirit (as opposed to the womb). If the Lord made a body that could die, it would have to have the sin-nature. Our Lord would then become the author of sin. Luke 20:35-36 settles the matter. Men in resurrection cannot die.

[Ray12614]

Hummm . . .  I have pondered this scripture too . . . . Is there a difference between being raised from the dead and the resurrection?

Of course we understand that the resurrection involves the final disposition of believers and unbelievers, so there is a difference then.

Also . . . We see from scripture that Lazarus was raised from the dead by Jesus before Jesus was crucified. That means that he would hove to  have died twice right?

 

[Dennis1209]

16 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Resurrection is a harvest. We are "planted", or "sown" in death and our Lord is the Firstfruits of them that sleep. The the shadow of Christ's resurrection is the Wave Offering. And Jehovah, Lord of the Harvest, has decreed a sheaf - not an ear (Lev.23:11) to be waved (indicating life and animation) "on the morrow after the Sabbath" - the day of Christ's resurrection. So, on the same day as our Lord was resurrected, a company of saints joined Him to make the "sheaf". But to maintain Christ's preeminence, notice the word "AFTER" in Matthew 27:52. Our Lord was resurrected very early. the others sometime after, but on the same day.

They were most probably raptured to heaven. Hebrews 9:27 is emphatic. There is not a single record of a man dying twice. It would cause massive problems for our Lord. A man dies because of what Adam did (Rom.5:12-17). A man's resurrection body is made by the Holy Spirit (as opposed to the womb). If the Lord made a body that could die, it would have to have the sin-nature. Our Lord would then become the author of sin. Luke 20:35-36 settles the matter. Men in resurrection cannot die.

Good morning,

Yes, Jesus was the first fruit of the dead, a reason I underscored “after His resurrection.” By that, I interpret it to mean the first resurrected from the dead, with more fruit (harvest) raised to come. I am not debating the following; I am trying to understand and reconcile the differences between resurrection and the examples below.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. [What is the difference between “dead” and “slept?”]

The word “Resurrection” is in 40 Bible verses, all in the New Testament. “Risen from the dead” is in 13 verses of the Bible, all in the NT. So, what does this have to do with anything?

John 12:17 The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.

Raised: ἐγείρω fut. ἐγερῶ ~  ⑥          to cause to return to life, raise up^[1]

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Raised: ἐγείρω fut. ἐγερῶ; ~  ⑥         to cause to return to life, raise up^[2]

Enoch was taken ~  לקח: MHeb - —9. (of God) to remove someone (Akk. leqū KAT³ 551²; Quell Fschr. Rudolph 261f; Reicke-R. Hw. 2106; ERohde Psyche (1898):1:68; THAT 1:878) Gn 5:24 2K 2:3 Ps 49:16 73:24.^[3]

In light of the coming harpazo, the general Rapture of the church, and the dead saints of all time. How can we view what Paul did in Acts 20:9 with Eutychus, similar to Elisha in 2 Kings 4:33-35? True, the Bible never mentions anyone dying twice, save spiritual death.

The child Elisha raised, Eutychus, that Paul raised from the dead through Christ, were they translated and did not physically die twice?

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

I can view Ephesians 4:8 as also meaning when Jesus ascended up on high, He defeated death and Hell. He led captivity, those in Abraham’s bosom out of captivity, but it does not say where to. The gifts to men were Jesus sending another comforter, the Holy Spirit, at Pentecost. Other gifts were the Gospel, spreading the Good News in the nation’s native tongues, the gift of Salvation, etc.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [When? And were there any before?]

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. [How many are many, are these tokens, what is to come, all of them?]

In light of my thoughts above, is Matthew 27:52 a special resurrection (the gift) to men? A sheave or harvest? I cannot say for sure, but I do not think so. Is it the resurrection of the OT saints, including the thief on the cross and John the Baptist, who would be in Paradise with Jesus? Does Paradise (a physical place) mean Abraham’s bosom or heaven?

There is no mention of “the many” on glorification, the final step in Salvation, that is yet to come. They also await the resurrection, reuniting their souls with their glorified bodies. Were these many raised perishable or immortal, comparing these “many” with what Elisha, Paul, and Jesus performed above?

Were these quickened (made alive again) or resurrected, not waiting for their resurrection and glorification? Is there a difference, or is all the Hebrew and Greek wording synonymous with resurrection, arose, and risen?

 

 

^[1] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). In A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 271). University of Chicago Press.

^[2] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). In A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 271). University of Chicago Press.

^[3] Koehler, L., Baumgartner, W., Richardson, M. E. J., & Stamm, J. J. (1994–2000). In The Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament (electronic ed., p. 534). E.J. Brill.

[Stewardofthemystery]

23 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

There have been several threads and comments on the number of resurrections and when lately (tribulation saints, the church Rapture, under the alter saints, etc.). I do not recollect a discussion on the following recently that only Matthew very briefly records. It raises many more questions than answers. Perhaps there is a relationship between the 144,000 and tribulation saints; I do not know.

Are quickened (made alive) those asleep, which slept, and resurrection all the same, or are there special resurrections, or just (quickened) made physically alive once again?

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

• Were these saints resurrected, glorified, and eventually taken to heaven, or returned from whence they came?
• It is unusual in several ways. One of which is scholars and theologians on the several commentaries I consulted are stumped, with no firm theology.
• Did these “many” saints physically die twice, as assumed with Lazarus and the others raised from the dead?
• For such a monumental and significant event, only Matthew briefly mentions it in the synoptic Gospels. This lack of clarification has to be intentional, I assume.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: [Are there notable exceptions to this before the general Rapture?]

Did the apostle Paul have anything in mind when he quoted:

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Matthew 27:52-53 is one of those mysteries I cannot even form an opinion on. How about you?

I do believe those saints raised right after Jesus was raised are the “firstfruits” of God.  These are the 144,000 shown in heaven with Christ.

Notice, we are told “these were redeemed from the earth”

Revelation 14:1-4

King James Version

14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which “were redeemed from the earth.”

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being “the firstfruits” unto God and to the Lamb.”

Edited October 27, 2023 by Stewardofthemystery

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, Ray12614 said:

Hummm . . .  I have pondered this scripture too . . . . Is there a difference between being raised from the dead and the resurrection?

Of course we understand that the resurrection involves the final disposition of believers and unbelievers, so there is a difference then.

Also . . . We see from scripture that Lazarus was raised from the dead by Jesus before Jesus was crucified. That means that he would hove to  have died twice right?

 

 

2 hours ago, Ray12614 said:

Hummm . . .  I have pondered this scripture too . . . . Is there a difference between being raised from the dead and the resurrection?

Of course we understand that the resurrection involves the final disposition of believers and unbelievers, so there is a difference then.

Also . . . We see from scripture that Lazarus was raised from the dead by Jesus before Jesus was crucified. That means that he would hove to  have died twice right?

 

 

36 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Good morning,

Yes, Jesus was the first fruit of the dead, a reason I underscored “after His resurrection.” By that, I interpret it to mean the first resurrected from the dead, with more fruit (harvest) raised to come. I am not debating the following; I am trying to understand and reconcile the differences between resurrection and the examples below.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. [What is the difference between “dead” and “slept?”]

The word “Resurrection” is in 40 Bible verses, all in the New Testament. “Risen from the dead” is in 13 verses of the Bible, all in the NT. So, what does this have to do with anything?

John 12:17 The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.

Raised: ἐγείρω fut. ἐγερῶ ~  ⑥          to cause to return to life, raise up^[1]

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Raised: ἐγείρω fut. ἐγερῶ; ~  ⑥         to cause to return to life, raise up^[2]

Enoch was taken ~  לקח: MHeb - —9. (of God) to remove someone (Akk. leqū KAT³ 551²; Quell Fschr. Rudolph 261f; Reicke-R. Hw. 2106; ERohde Psyche (1898):1:68; THAT 1:878) Gn 5:24 2K 2:3 Ps 49:16 73:24.^[3]

In light of the coming harpazo, the general Rapture of the church, and the dead saints of all time. How can we view what Paul did in Acts 20:9 with Eutychus, similar to Elisha in 2 Kings 4:33-35? True, the Bible never mentions anyone dying twice, save spiritual death.

The child Elisha raised, Eutychus, that Paul raised from the dead through Christ, were they translated and did not physically die twice?

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

I can view Ephesians 4:8 as also meaning when Jesus ascended up on high, He defeated death and Hell. He led captivity, those in Abraham’s bosom out of captivity, but it does not say where to. The gifts to men were Jesus sending another comforter, the Holy Spirit, at Pentecost. Other gifts were the Gospel, spreading the Good News in the nation’s native tongues, the gift of Salvation, etc.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [When? And were there any before?]

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53. And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. [How many are many, are these tokens, what is to come, all of them?]

In light of my thoughts above, is Matthew 27:52 a special resurrection (the gift) to men? A sheave or harvest? I cannot say for sure, but I do not think so. Is it the resurrection of the OT saints, including the thief on the cross and John the Baptist, who would be in Paradise with Jesus? Does Paradise (a physical place) mean Abraham’s bosom or heaven?

There is no mention of “the many” on glorification, the final step in Salvation, that is yet to come. They also await the resurrection, reuniting their souls with their glorified bodies. Were these many raised perishable or immortal, comparing these “many” with what Elisha, Paul, and Jesus performed above?

Were these quickened (made alive again) or resurrected, not waiting for their resurrection and glorification? Is there a difference, or is all the Hebrew and Greek wording synonymous with resurrection, arose, and risen?

 

 

^[1] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). In A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 271). University of Chicago Press.

^[2] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). In A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 271). University of Chicago Press.

^[3] Koehler, L., Baumgartner, W., Richardson, M. E. J., & Stamm, J. J. (1994–2000). In The Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament (electronic ed., p. 534). E.J. Brill.

Gentlemen, Brothers,

I appreciate your friendly inquiry and your courtesy manner. I have written a number of answers and then scratched them. What I really want to say sounds so blunt, and I so don't want to be blunt to men I esteem highly. So let me put it this way. Let's reverse the subject. Let me lay down, in the friendliest terms, a challenge. Let us be good detectives in a crime investigation. We are to investigate only facts and leave our emotions outside the door. We suspect somebody and he half fits the profile. But there are gaping holes in our case. Here they are

- Hebrews 9:27 is not an ambiguous sentence. It stands alone without need to be interpreted
- Luke 20:35-36 needs so special attention. It says that angels don't die, and it says that men in resurrection are like angels
- Seven humans were resurrected before the resurrection of our Lord Jesus and there is no record of them dying again
- Our Lord Jesus is raised from the dead and has passed a test - nearly 2,000 years and he is still bodily alive
- The Beast and the False prophet both come from the Abyss. The Beast "was, is not and will come". He is one of five kings who had died by John's writing of Revelation. They are men so they exited Hades. The Beast shows a deadly wound but is not dead. Both go LIVING into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is used synonymously with the Second Death and both are use synonymously with "perdition". the Greek word for "perdition" does not mean annihilation or cessation of sensory stimuli. It means; "Lack of well being". So even the two most infamous characters of the Bible do not die twice
- There is no evidence of "re-incarnation" in the Bible

I must say, fellow soldiers in Christ, there is not a dot of evidence that dead men can die again, or that living men can die twice. To develop such a doctrine it needs a man to overthrow all the above AND make statements that are not found in scripture. But let me address Ephesians 4:8-9. But before I do so, let me ask a question. Does the language used and/or the grammar, in any way, come near a meaning that Christ led a huge company of dead, bodiless men out of Hades into heaven? If you were facing a murder charge and I said, those same words as evidence of your guilt, you, the judge and the jury would laugh. Where is the plain language. And in what context is it said. What are the words? And what is the grammar? has it anything to do with death, Hades, and Jesus, Who was witnessed going up to heaven, playing Pied Piper to hundreds of thousands of bodiless men?

Even if, by some clever usage of language, this is meant then the Lord is accused of a huge oversight. David was left behind! In Acts 2:25-34 w have Peter's speech. In it he quotes a Psalm that contains prophecy of Hades not holding Jesus. the Psalm is written as man are. the Psalmist writes in the first person because it is really a prophecy of Christ. Psalm 22 is a perfect example. So, in Acts 2, Peter is quotong David who is prophesying concerning Christ (see v.31). How do we know for sure? Because David WAS left in Hades and his body (i) "rests in hope", and (ii) his body did "see corruption". Added to this, David will ony be resurrected "when Christ comes" (1st Cor.15:23) and he will only be restored when the Church is complete (Act.15:14-16).

But let us assume that death is spoken of by using the words "captivity". What does it mean "Captivity is led captive"? Let us take the main captivity of scripture - that of Judah in Babylon. A large portion of Judah were deported as CAPTIVES and ensconced in Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar then led the FREE CAPTIVE. 70 or so years later Cyrus, a Persian king defeated and captured Babylon. If he had done nothing, the CAPTIVITY of Judah would not have gone anywhere. If he let Judah free (as he did) CAPTIVITY would have been SET FREE The word LED means somebody took the lead to put a prison full of captives into an other prison. "LEADING CAPTIVITY (not captives) CAPTIVE (neither indicates men) means putting the diaspora into prison.

But let us agree on the claims that the dead in Hades are meant. Why are not the "CAPTIVES" mentioned. The grammar is saying; " dungeon was put in a dungeon. This would mean then the opposite of men set free. "Captivity captive" means a double prison. I must say that it takes a large imagination to make that statement fit that meaning, and it takes much courage to base a whole doctrine on one verse. I always understood that a dead man who is released from Hades is FREED.

I'm being repetitive now so it is a goood time to stop. I would lke to hear a solid exegesis from someone on this sentence.

Thank you for your consideration. 

[farouk]

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept." (1 Corinthians 15.20)

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

 

Gentlemen, Brothers,

I appreciate your friendly inquiry and your courtesy manner. I have written a number of answers and then scratched them. What I really want to say sounds so blunt, and I so don't want to be blunt to men I esteem highly. So let me put it this way. Let's reverse the subject. Let me lay down, in the friendliest terms, a challenge. Let us be good detectives in a crime investigation. We are to investigate only facts and leave our emotions outside the door. We suspect somebody and he half fits the profile. But there are gaping holes in our case. Here they are

- Hebrews 9:27 is not an ambiguous sentence. It stands alone without need to be interpreted
- Luke 20:35-36 needs so special attention. It says that angels don't die, and it says that men in resurrection are like angels
- Seven humans were resurrected before the resurrection of our Lord Jesus and there is no record of them dying again
- Our Lord Jesus is raised from the dead and has passed a test - nearly 2,000 years and he is still bodily alive
- The Beast and the False prophet both come from the Abyss. The Beast "was, is not and will come". He is one of five kings who had died by John's writing of Revelation. They are men so they exited Hades. The Beast shows a deadly wound but is not dead. Both go LIVING into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is used synonymously with the Second Death and both are use synonymously with "perdition". the Greek word for "perdition" does not mean annihilation or cessation of sensory stimuli. It means; "Lack of well being". So even the two most infamous characters of the Bible do not die twice
- There is no evidence of "re-incarnation" in the Bible

I must say, fellow soldiers in Christ, there is not a dot of evidence that dead men can die again, or that living men can die twice. To develop such a doctrine it needs a man to overthrow all the above AND make statements that are not found in scripture. But let me address Ephesians 4:8-9. But before I do so, let me ask a question. Does the language used and/or the grammar, in any way, come near a meaning that Christ led a huge company of dead, bodiless men out of Hades into heaven? If you were facing a murder charge and I said, those same words as evidence of your guilt, you, the judge and the jury would laugh. Where is the plain language. And in what context is it said. What are the words? And what is the grammar? has it anything to do with death, Hades, and Jesus, Who was witnessed going up to heaven, playing Pied Piper to hundreds of thousands of bodiless men?

Even if, by some clever usage of language, this is meant then the Lord is accused of a huge oversight. David was left behind! In Acts 2:25-34 w have Peter's speech. In it he quotes a Psalm that contains prophecy of Hades not holding Jesus. the Psalm is written as man are. the Psalmist writes in the first person because it is really a prophecy of Christ. Psalm 22 is a perfect example. So, in Acts 2, Peter is quotong David who is prophesying concerning Christ (see v.31). How do we know for sure? Because David WAS left in Hades and his body (i) "rests in hope", and (ii) his body did "see corruption". Added to this, David will ony be resurrected "when Christ comes" (1st Cor.15:23) and he will only be restored when the Church is complete (Act.15:14-16).

But let us assume that death is spoken of by using the words "captivity". What does it mean "Captivity is led captive"? Let us take the main captivity of scripture - that of Judah in Babylon. A large portion of Judah were deported as CAPTIVES and ensconced in Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar then led the FREE CAPTIVE. 70 or so years later Cyrus, a Persian king defeated and captured Babylon. If he had done nothing, the CAPTIVITY of Judah would not have gone anywhere. If he let Judah free (as he did) CAPTIVITY would have been SET FREE The word LED means somebody took the lead to put a prison full of captives into an other prison. "LEADING CAPTIVITY (not captives) CAPTIVE (neither indicates men) means putting the diaspora into prison.

But let us agree on the claims that the dead in Hades are meant. Why are not the "CAPTIVES" mentioned. The grammar is saying; " dungeon was put in a dungeon. This would mean then the opposite of men set free. "Captivity captive" means a double prison. I must say that it takes a large imagination to make that statement fit that meaning, and it takes much courage to base a whole doctrine on one verse. I always understood that a dead man who is released from Hades is FREED.

I'm being repetitive now so it is a goood time to stop. I would lke to hear a solid exegesis from someone on this sentence.

Thank you for your consideration. 

I like and admire how you best answer and interpret scripture; let scripture explain scripture; good on you.

However, and it seems I always have a, however. 😊

So I will understand your view better, let me simplify my question in two parts below:

I used examples of those raised from the dead before Christ, during Jesus walking the earth, before His ascension, and the apostle Paul – Eutychus. Those cannot be the firstfruits, as Jesus was and had to be.

As you explain, it was leading captivity captive, dungeon to dungeon, so to speak. A single example of the many dead seen and witnessed in Jerusalem (the holy city) Matthew chapter 27.

• Where is that captivity right now they reside in?

The same question is for those who were raised from the dead under the Old Covenant and continued sacrificing.

• Where is that captivity right now they reside in?

In other words:

• Has the Paradise side of Abraham's bosom, as opposed to the torment side of Hades, been cleaned out yet?

Popular exegesis is that after Jesus rose from the dead, all born-again believers spirits (all of humanity's spirits, Ec. 12:7) return to the Lord who gave them, and believers' souls immediately go to heaven, not Hades.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Before the cross, many believe the souls of those with faith and trust (still the standard today) went to a temporary holding cell (Hades-dungeon), awaiting the once and for all atonement and propitiation through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Thanks for putting up with me AdHoc.