Questions for evolution believers

[RV_Wizard]

Here’s a question for those of you who believe in evolution.  What would give a God who did NOT create us in His image; who just watched us evolve over billions of years, the right to judge us?  After all, if a lion kills a hyena and takes his prey without consequence, what stops me from killing you and taking your stereo?  If we are merely evolved apes, then the predominant law is survival of the fittest.

 
After all, to one who believes in evolution, God is like a kid playing with a chemistry set that set things in motion beyond His control.  The fact that God told us He created the heavens, the earth and all living things in six days followed by a day of rest proves His word can’t be trusted, right?  So perhaps God is outside of this world, and our concept or right and wrong come from social agreement, right?  After all, how would God have the authority to judge us when He had very little to do with our existence?  

I realize that many people have returned the favor by creating (their own version of) God in their own image.  However, only a God who created us specially and gave us the law would have any right to attach a consequence to violations of that law.  Logically, then, to believe in evolution, wouldn’t the intelligent man conclude that there is no Heaven, no Hell, and no ultimate consequence for the bad behavior we call sin?  

What if you are wrong?  What if God is real?  What if there IS a consequence for our actions?  What if you are held responsible for causing others to lose their faith because they decided they can’t trust their Bible?  What if your “teaching” leads others ultimately to destruction?  Do you think there will be a  consequence for your actions?
 

[Who me]

I prefer to ask how can a process vital for evolut8on be called an enemy, death, the last enemy?

Also how could death be call " good " ?

[Tristen]

13 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Here’s a question for those of you who believe in evolution.  What would give a God who did NOT create us in His image; who just watched us evolve over billions of years, the right to judge us?  After all, if a lion kills a hyena and takes his prey without consequence, what stops me from killing you and taking your stereo?  If we are merely evolved apes, then the predominant law is survival of the fittest.

 
After all, to one who believes in evolution, God is like a kid playing with a chemistry set that set things in motion beyond His control.  The fact that God told us He created the heavens, the earth and all living things in six days followed by a day of rest proves His word can’t be trusted, right?  So perhaps God is outside of this world, and our concept or right and wrong come from social agreement, right?  After all, how would God have the authority to judge us when He had very little to do with our existence?  

I realize that many people have returned the favor by creating (their own version of) God in their own image.  However, only a God who created us specially and gave us the law would have any right to attach a consequence to violations of that law.  Logically, then, to believe in evolution, wouldn’t the intelligent man conclude that there is no Heaven, no Hell, and no ultimate consequence for the bad behavior we call sin?  

What if you are wrong?  What if God is real?  What if there IS a consequence for our actions?  What if you are held responsible for causing others to lose their faith because they decided they can’t trust their Bible?  What if your “teaching” leads others ultimately to destruction?  Do you think there will be a  consequence for your actions?
 

Hey RV,

I would suggest that the question needs to be refined to reflect the difference between, a) Christian believers who feel obligated to the secular narrative of history, and b) non-believers who accept the secular narrative of history. From my reading of your opening post, the questions and arguments you present blur the two positions - leaving you open to accusations of misrepresenting one group or the other.

In this forum, you are more likely to encounter the Christian believers who feel obligated to the secular narrative of history. They will claim, with some validity, that many of the arguments you have provided do not accurately reflect (and therefore do not apply to) their position.

There are valid questions for both groups, however, the aspect of your post directed at to non-believers might be better suited to the "Worthy Pavilion" section of the forum where the non-believers have more engagement.

 

 

[RV_Wizard]

9 hours ago, Tristen said:

Hey RV,

I would suggest that the question needs to be refined to reflect the difference between, a) Christian believers who feel obligated to the secular narrative of history, and b) non-believers who accept the secular narrative of history. From my reading of your opening post, the questions and arguments you present blur the two positions -

These questions aren't intended to target non-believers so much as those who are weak in faith because the constant barrage of secularism and naturalism leads them away from God and toward the conformity of a disbelieving world.  The non-believer has no problem with things like evolution or a 13 billion year old earth because it doesn't conflict with non-belief.  They don't question the nature of God because they reject the notion of His existence or His authority.  The non-believers see our disunity as a validation that Christians can't even agree on what their own Bible teaches.  How can it have authority over them?  While we should be ambassadors of our Father, showing them love and inviting them to be saved, they see us disassembling the Bible and undermining the authority of God.

Christianity, Catholicism, Buddhism, Islam, Mormonism and evolution are all religions.  You accept them by faith.  Our religion is Christianity because we believe in the one true God who sent His son to die for our sins, and who rose again on the third day.  Other religions contradict each other.  Catholicism is a Christian religion, Islam is not.  Christ based religions and Judaism teach the Ten Commandments.  Evolution is incompatible with the fourth commandment, most of Genesis and the very reason Christ was sacrificed on the cross.  Evolution and Christianity are at odds with one another.  Both cannot be true.  One says God is the ultimate authority, the other sees God as a bit player if He does exist, taking credit for a six day creation that took him billions of years.

I think the only way to believe in the Bible and evolution is to have a complete understanding of neither.  So by what standard does one choose to take the authority of evolution over the authority of God's word?  How does one justify both contradictory beliefs?  If the Bible is not true and not God's word, then what good is it?

[Eli1]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:06 AM, RV_Wizard said:

Here’s a question for those of you who believe in evolution.  What would give a God who did NOT create us in His image; who just watched us evolve over billions of years, the right to judge us?  After all, if a lion kills a hyena and takes his prey without consequence, what stops me from killing you and taking your stereo?  If we are merely evolved apes, then the predominant law is survival of the fittest.

 
After all, to one who believes in evolution, God is like a kid playing with a chemistry set that set things in motion beyond His control.  The fact that God told us He created the heavens, the earth and all living things in six days followed by a day of rest proves His word can’t be trusted, right?  So perhaps God is outside of this world, and our concept or right and wrong come from social agreement, right?  After all, how would God have the authority to judge us when He had very little to do with our existence?  

I realize that many people have returned the favor by creating (their own version of) God in their own image.  However, only a God who created us specially and gave us the law would have any right to attach a consequence to violations of that law.  Logically, then, to believe in evolution, wouldn’t the intelligent man conclude that there is no Heaven, no Hell, and no ultimate consequence for the bad behavior we call sin?  

What if you are wrong?  What if God is real?  What if there IS a consequence for our actions?  What if you are held responsible for causing others to lose their faith because they decided they can’t trust their Bible?  What if your “teaching” leads others ultimately to destruction?  Do you think there will be a  consequence for your actions?
 

What an odd question.

A Creator has all the right and means to create us through evolution and judge us.

The limit is only in your mind and worldview.  

[Sparks]

35 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

What an odd question.

A Creator has all the right and means to create us through evolution and judge us.

The limit is only in your mind and worldview.  

All the scripture seems to point to the fact the He didn't create us through evolution.  It is the evolutionists, who like the idea of evolution, who need evolution to be Biblical and who must make days into trillions of years to fit their world-view.  You know that scripture conflicts with evolution theory in every step of the way, and evolutionist might even forget that God could have mentioned it if He did it that way, rather then evolutionists relying on the fact that he didn't mention it and therefore they claim its possible. 

What is sad to me is that evolutionists have convinced themselves that they have actually seen evidence of evolution theory.  They have taken the one observable 'evolution' called microevolution (just variations within a 'species' which is seen at every birth) and stretched it into this nonsense, for which there is no evidence and none of it is observed.  

Variations are just the differences between siblings though they are from the same DNA source; the same parents.  It never goes beyond that.  You will never get a whale from a Carolina Reaper pepper, even given trillions of years.

[FreeGrace]

53 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

A Creator has all the right and means to create us through evolution and judge us.  

Yet, the Bible is very clear.  He didn't create anything through evolution.  He spoke the creation into existence.  Psa 33:6,9

Then, after the earth "became an uninhabitable wasteland" (v.2) He restored the earth in 6 days, including morning and evening, and put Adam's body together from the chemicals, etc from the ground, and then breathed the "breath of life" into his nostrils and man became a living being.  Gen 2:7

Why would any Christian think that evolution is a legitimate "theory"?

[Eli1]

27 minutes ago, Sparks said:

All the scripture seems to point to the fact the He didn't create us through evolution.  It is the evolutionists, who like the idea of evolution, who need evolution to be Biblical and who must make days into trillions of years to fit their world-view.  You know that scripture conflicts with evolution theory in every step of the way, and evolutionist might even forget that God could have mentioned it if He did it that way, rather then evolutionists relying on the fact that he didn't mention it and therefore they claim its possible. 

What is sad to me is that evolutionists have convinced themselves that they have actually seen evidence of evolution theory.  They have taken the one observable 'evolution' called microevolution (just variations within a 'species' which is seen at every birth) and stretched it into this nonsense, for which there is no evidence and none of it is observed.  

Variations are just the differences between siblings though they are from the same DNA source; the same parents.  It never goes beyond that.  You will never get a whale from a Carolina Reaper pepper, even given trillions of years.

 

 

4 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Yet, the Bible is very clear.  He didn't create anything through evolution.  He spoke the creation into existence.  Psa 33:6,9

Then, after the earth "became an uninhabitable wasteland" (v.2) He restored the earth in 6 days, including morning and evening, and put Adam's body together from the chemicals, etc from the ground, and then breathed the "breath of life" into his nostrils and man became a living being.  Gen 2:7

Why would any Christian think that evolution is a legitimate "theory"?

 

 

The scripture is not a biology book or a science book. It's a relationship book to our Creator. 

God gave me eyes to see so, when we see bones of our ancestors with our eyes then we have to make some guesses on the changes we've experienced through the ages. When you look at your family line 20 generation ago, they looked very different from you now. And when you look at your family line 10, 000 years ago you also see Neanderthals in the mix. 

Also what we see is more about what is revealed to us and based on what's revealed to us we have to make some educated guesses. 

This for me has no problems with my faith in God because i don't want to make it a fundamentalist issue, because i respect free-will. 

[Sparks]

14 minutes ago, Eli1 said:

The scripture is not a biology book or a science book. It's a relationship book to our Creator. 

God gave me eyes to see so, when we see bones of our ancestors with our eyes then we have to make some guesses on the changes we've experienced through the ages. When you look at your family line 20 generation ago, they looked very different from you now. And when you look at your family line 10, 000 years ago you also see Neanderthals in the mix. 

Also what we see is more about what is revealed to us and based on what's revealed to us we have to make some educated guesses. 

This for me has no problems with my faith in God because i don't want to make it a fundamentalist issue, because i respect free-will. 

I love the arrogance of thinking scientists are above God and that they would know more about science. 

Adam brought death into the world through sin, according to the Bible.  Death brought Adam into the world, according to evolution theory.

Which is right?

[Eli1]

Just now, Sparks said:

I love the arrogance of thinking scientists are above God and that they would know more about science. 

Adam brought death into the world through sin, according to the Bible.  Death brought Adam into the world, according to evolution theory.

Which is right?

That's a two way street. 

Just because a scientist is an idiot, doesn't mean we all have to be idiots. 

God gave us eyes to see and ears to hear. God also gave you free-will to reject what you see and gave me free-will to believe what i see. 

There are no limitations on how God chooses to create us.