BODY AND SOUL AND SPIRIT

[jeremiah1five]

8 hours ago, Yokefellow said:

I believe the creation of the First Adam in Genesis was done in a more 'ethereal' world. In other words, the prelapsarian universe that existed was not 'fallen' and therefore not 'physical' as we understand it now. Therefore, the creation of a physical body was not even possible.

With that in mind, I will go over a few key phrases in this verse..

Genesis 2:7 - "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

We must not assume anything. I am a firm believer in Scripture interprets Scripture. What exactly is the 'dust of the ground'? Is it dirt or clay? No. That is a false assumption. The answer is found in many places...

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

When a living organism dies, it rots and eventually turns into organic matter. Some would call it 'fertilizer' and 'worm food'. Nitrogen is a good fertilizer BTW. Surely the organic matter left over contains DNA, which brings us to the next set of verses...

Genesis 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Genesis 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

We can see that Scripture is associating 'dust of the earth' with 'seed'. Seed is DNA as well as the Word of God...

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Just as Genesis teaches, a living organism returns to Nitrogen Bases where it started, i.e., the 'dust' of the earth.

In summary, God created a Genome (i.e., Soul) from the Nitrogen Bases of the ground. God did not create a physical body. That would come much later. Moreover, we discover that a Genome is what a Soul is according to the Bible.

God then breathed the First Adam's Spirit into said Genome and animated it. Now he is a Living Soul.

Soul + Spirit = Living Soul.

Again, no physical body existed yet.

Man was created sinful, or as the word is defined by Strong, "missing the mark." 

What is that "mark"?

The glory of God, or the glory that is God.

Isaiah states unequivocally that there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE. Understanding and accepting this is base to understanding the creation of man. 

God cannot reduplicate Himself in Himself. He cannot copy or duplicate any aspect of His glorious, sinless, holy nature and attributes. If God created man sinless or holy or righteous then man would need to be created with ALL the nature or Deific attributes of God else, he would fall short of God's eternal magnificent glory. There is only ONE Who can stand before a Holy God blameless and that is a Holy Son. Thus, we have the reason why man sinned. It is because he was created sinful, or "missing the mark." And I do not agree that there was a "Fall" with the eating of the forbidden tree. It was, after all, a Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil. God merely used this natural tree to give man (and the woman) the KNOWLEDGE of their sinfulness. The prophet says:

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Samuel 24:13.

Or, sin comes from sinner. And even before these two ate from the forbidden tree they were already sinners as their adding to God's Word dictates:

      6       Add thou not unto his words,
      Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:6.

They added to God's word: "neither shall ye touch it" clearly proves these two as liars by adding to God's word that according to the text was not part of the original command. And no liar has eternal life. Even if these two did not disobey God they would have eventually died due to their temporality in that they were not eternal, which is the Nature of God, and again, if one possesses any one attribute or nature of God he/she would by necessity must possess ALL the Nature or Deific Attributes of God. As saith the ancients, sin comes from sinner and wickedness cometh from the wicked. There is only ONE God. And because they were sinful ("missing the mark"), it would not be necessary to bar the way to the tree of life. 

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:        Gen. 3:22.

Besides this, Saul gives us more insight to the make-up of man:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1 Cor. 15:42–49.

Man does not bear the image of God, the Son does. Man is natural and of the earth, earthy, as opposed to the Lord from heaven. There is no better image of a Father than a Son.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col. 1:15.

I believe that when God said, "let us make man in our own image" that God ordained the new man in the loins of the man would would be born into the world at the appointed time, and born-again at the appointed time, with the Old Testament saints "kept" until the atonement could be made that would bring a co-habitation between God and His elect people in time. 

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal. 3:23.

And so, we come to atonement. And in the new birth we begin our conformity to the image of Christ who is the image of the invisible God. It is the "new man" that is made in the image of Christ, true righteousness, true holiness, which is also our justification, our being declared, "Not Guilty!" by God.

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph. 4:24.

There was no "Fall" of man. There was no change in the composition of man when he failed God and did that which was natural to him and that is sin which came from a sinner. Man - Adam - was created body, soul, and human spirit, which in man is necessary in order to process spiritual phenomenon, so that we may pray and worship God with a human spirit for God Himself is Spirit. Having a created-anew human spirit allows us to process and exercise our spiritual gifts, to discern God's Presence, to pray and worship God with a human spirit as we are now able to worship God in/with [human] spirit and in truth. The unconverted man (or woman) is born body and soul and in this dichotomy dies and are cast into "hell" as opposed to the new man who is in new birth restored to a trichotomy of God's own expressed nature of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[jeremiah1five]

14 hours ago, Yokefellow said:

The Bible teaches no such thing.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt. 10:28.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess. 5:23.

There are no "three-part" persons in "hell." There is a distinction being expressed in these two passages. If Jesus is merely describing the body and soul in the grave ("hell") after the spirit/breath returns to God, or the "two-part" person would be eternally separated from God for again this passage also enlightens us:

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb. 4:12.

It is the Word of God rightly divided in me that allows me to discern soul, spirit, and body (joints and marrow) of anyone in the exercise of my spiritual gifts. Discerning the body (joints and marrow) if my gift is of healing the body, or of healing of soul and the "heart" of man. 

I hear it being said that no man can 'discern' another person's "heart" but if the Word of God is planted in my "heart" and it dwells within me richly, the gifts of the Holy Spirit through the Word of God gives me the insight in accordance with God's will for a particular purpose as my candle is the illumination that gives light to all that are in the house (or Church.) 

[jeremiah1five]

9 hours ago, Yokefellow said:

I believe the creation of the First Adam in Genesis was done in a more 'ethereal' world. In other words, the prelapsarian universe that existed was not 'fallen' and therefore not 'physical' as we understand it now. Therefore, the creation of a physical body was not even possible.

With that in mind, I will go over a few key phrases in this verse..

Genesis 2:7 - "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

We must not assume anything. I am a firm believer in Scripture interprets Scripture. What exactly is the 'dust of the ground'? Is it dirt or clay? No. That is a false assumption. The answer is found in many places...

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

When a living organism dies, it rots and eventually turns into organic matter. Some would call it 'fertilizer' and 'worm food'. Nitrogen is a good fertilizer BTW. Surely the organic matter left over contains DNA, which brings us to the next set of verses...

Genesis 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Genesis 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

We can see that Scripture is associating 'dust of the earth' with 'seed'. Seed is DNA as well as the Word of God...

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Just as Genesis teaches, a living organism returns to Nitrogen Bases where it started, i.e., the 'dust' of the earth.

In summary, God created a Genome (i.e., Soul) from the Nitrogen Bases of the ground. God did not create a physical body. That would come much later. Moreover, we discover that a Genome is what a Soul is according to the Bible.

God then breathed the First Adam's Spirit into said Genome and animated it. Now he is a Living Soul.

Soul + Spirit = Living Soul.

Again, no physical body existed yet.

Our "soul" is that which may come from God and in this is His familiarity or foreknowledge of ourselves. But then how does this apply to someone whom "[He] never knew."

Curious.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paleouss]

9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks for your thoughts!

Hello Charlie, great to hear from you again.  And thank you also for our discussion.  I first would like to apologize for the length of this post.  I enjoy the topic. :)

9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

1) the only material God needed or used was the earth or dust... From this He created Adam.

I'll agree with you by saying that one of the components described in Genesis 2:7 is that of the "dust", which means of the earth or matter or other than God.

To communicate this formula I see in Genesis 2:7, I'm going to start writing a formula to express it visually.  So far we have in Genesis 2:7 a formula of 'dust-otherness'.  That is, we have reasoned that the dust here is also ‘otherness’. A distinct substance (matter) that is other than God by the creative act of God that we will denote here as the formula, dust-other.

9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

2) God breathed into Adam, NOT the Holy Spirit because that is the 3rd part of the Trinity - Himself. No, He breathed into Adam His Holiness, His spirit, which can only be found within Him.

Thank you for your clarification.  I think I see what you are saying.

The main problem I have is that you have taken the formula given to us in Scripture and substituted something.  That is "holiness".  Your overall concept that you try to paint seems somewhat acceptable to me, but I think you use the wrong verse for its support.  For me, details matter.  A building that is built an inch off square at the beginning becomes a foot off square at its top. 

The formula I see, in the strict sense, is that we can also reason that the “breath of life” is of spirit, that is of God (John 4:24) and from God (Num 16:22) by the creative act of God (Gen 2:7) that we can denote here as the formula, spirit-life. 

So what we have is a formula of dust-other and spirit-life.  There is no "holiness" in this formula given to us by Genesis 2:7.  If we stick to what God's word says, then we can make connects that God may have intended. 

So staying to the strict formula, we see that in the creative act, God takes dust-other, which is the “dust from the ground” (Gen 2:7), and spirit-life, which is the “breath of life” (Gen 2:7) and by impressing oneness upon both in the creative act, a distinct life unto itself emerges, i.e., “a living soul” (Gen 2:7 KJV) or a personhood.

We can represent this bringing together of spirit-life and dust-other by the creative act of oneness as the following formula (below) ...

dust-other-life/spirit-life-other.

That is to say that what happens from God’s creative act is that the “breath” (Gen 2:7) impresses upon the “dust” (Gen 2:7) what is of the breath, that is ‘life’. Leaving us with the outer self (2Cor 4:16), dust-other-life.  So the breath, which is the spirit of life (Gen2:7), impresses upon the dust what is of the spirit, that is life. Without it, “if God should gather to Himself his Spirit and His breath” (Job 34:14), “man would return to dust” (Job 34:15).

Additionally, the dust impresses upon the spirit, for the breath is spirit (John 20:22), what is of the dust, that is ‘otherness’. Leaving us with the inner self, spirit-life-other. If we continue this reasoning we would denote that this oneness, that is one being, one self, that is logically expressed as the formula dust-other-life/spirit-life-other, is what we know as the body/spirit-soul.

That is to say, the body is the body of man, it is material yet alive, it is other and matter yet has life impressed upon it through the creative act of oneness.

The spirit, that is breath, is now the spirit of man (Job 32:8) that once was and is the breath of life (Job 32:8) from God and is now distinctively man’s life for it is now spirit-life-other; a result of the creative act of oneness.

And the soul is personhood, it is the ‘other’ and spirit-life in oneness; it is of the creative act where God “forms” (Zac 12:1) the inner man by impressing “dust” upon “breath” where a soul “became” (Gen 2:7).

              Outer self / Inner self 

dust-other-life / spirit-life-other

9 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

So, I agree with you that God did not breathe THE Holy Spirit into Adam, but He did breathe His "holiness" into him.

As I longwindedly said above, lol.  In the strict sense, "holiness" must be inferred onto the Genesis 2:7 to reach your purposed formula.  To be clear, I'm not suggesting Adam was not made in God's image or that he lost that image when he sinned.  I most certainly agree with you there.  Or saying that Adam, when he was first created, could claim or boast of any holiness of his own, he could not.  Whatever holiness we want to assign to Adam upon his creation, it was clearly not his own and was removed when he sinned.  

However, my admitting this doesn't seem to therefore show that Genesis 2:7 is proof of this.  Genesis 2:7, if it is a formula at all, is the depiction of Adam, and mankind, being a reflection of the Triune God they were created after.  

God is Triune; God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.  Mankind, created in His likeness, is body/spirit-soul.  This is what Genesis 2:7 is communicating, in my humble opinion. 

Within the biblical text, God the Father is the epicenter of praise and worship (Phil 4:20, 2:6; John 8:49-50,12:28, 2:16,17:1-4, Heb 5:5, Matt 5:9-13,7:21); everything flows from God the Father for He is the source and planner of all things (John 5:19); He sends the Son but the Son never sends the Father (1John 4:9); He pours out His Spirit but the Spirit never pours out the Father. On the other hand, God the Son carries out the plans and will of the Father (John 5:30, 6:38; Heb 10:11); He is Immanuel, “God with us” in body and flesh; He is the divine in the flesh (1Tim 3:16) and it is said that the Father’s will is accomplished “through” God the Son (John 1:1-14). Additionally, the Holy Spirit reveals the Father’s will (John 15:26-27; 1Cor 2:10; John 16:13;Rom 8:16); but the Father never reveals the Holy Spirit’s will; and the Holy Spirit provides strength and power to carry out the will of the Father (Mic 3:8; Eph 3:16; 2Tim 1:7; Luke 1:17, 1:35, 4:14; Acts 1:8, 10:38; Rom 15:13; 1Cor 5:8; Isa 40:29-31).

This is likened unto a chariot.  The chariot is the body, it carries out the will of the charioteer; the horses are the spirit, the power and life; and the charioteer is the soul, the epicenter and the source and planner.

So to is mankind.  And this is what I think Genesis 2:7, if we keep to the strict formula, is in reference too.

Peace to you brother

May all glory and honor be His

[Charlie744]

14 hours ago, Paleouss said:

Hello Charlie, great to hear from you again.  And thank you also for our discussion.  I first would like to apologize for the length of this post.  I enjoy the topic. :)

I'll agree with you by saying that one of the components described in Genesis 2:7 is that of the "dust", which means of the earth or matter or other than God.

To communicate this formula I see in Genesis 2:7, I'm going to start writing a formula to express it visually.  So far we have in Genesis 2:7 a formula of 'dust-otherness'.  That is, we have reasoned that the dust here is also ‘otherness’. A distinct substance (matter) that is other than God by the creative act of God that we will denote here as the formula, dust-other.

 

Thank you for your clarification.  I think I see what you are saying.

The main problem I have is that you have taken the formula given to us in Scripture and substituted something.  That is "holiness".  Your overall concept that you try to paint seems somewhat acceptable to me, but I think you use the wrong verse for its support.  For me, details matter.  A building that is built an inch off square at the beginning becomes a foot off square at its top. 

The formula I see, in the strict sense, is that we can also reason that the “breath of life” is of spirit, that is of God (John 4:24) and from God (Num 16:22) by the creative act of God (Gen 2:7) that we can denote here as the formula, spirit-life. 

So what we have is a formula of dust-other and spirit-life.  There is no "holiness" in this formula given to us by Genesis 2:7.  If we stick to what God's word says, then we can make connects that God may have intended. 

So staying to the strict formula, we see that in the creative act, God takes dust-other, which is the “dust from the ground” (Gen 2:7), and spirit-life, which is the “breath of life” (Gen 2:7) and by impressing oneness upon both in the creative act, a distinct life unto itself emerges, i.e., “a living soul” (Gen 2:7 KJV) or a personhood.

We can represent this bringing together of spirit-life and dust-other by the creative act of oneness as the following formula (below) ...

dust-other-life/spirit-life-other.

That is to say that what happens from God’s creative act is that the “breath” (Gen 2:7) impresses upon the “dust” (Gen 2:7) what is of the breath, that is ‘life’. Leaving us with the outer self (2Cor 4:16), dust-other-life.  So the breath, which is the spirit of life (Gen2:7), impresses upon the dust what is of the spirit, that is life. Without it, “if God should gather to Himself his Spirit and His breath” (Job 34:14), “man would return to dust” (Job 34:15).

Additionally, the dust impresses upon the spirit, for the breath is spirit (John 20:22), what is of the dust, that is ‘otherness’. Leaving us with the inner self, spirit-life-other. If we continue this reasoning we would denote that this oneness, that is one being, one self, that is logically expressed as the formula dust-other-life/spirit-life-other, is what we know as the body/spirit-soul.

That is to say, the body is the body of man, it is material yet alive, it is other and matter yet has life impressed upon it through the creative act of oneness.

The spirit, that is breath, is now the spirit of man (Job 32:8) that once was and is the breath of life (Job 32:8) from God and is now distinctively man’s life for it is now spirit-life-other; a result of the creative act of oneness.

And the soul is personhood, it is the ‘other’ and spirit-life in oneness; it is of the creative act where God “forms” (Zac 12:1) the inner man by impressing “dust” upon “breath” where a soul “became” (Gen 2:7).

 

              Outer self / Inner self 

dust-other-life / spirit-life-other

As I longwindedly said above, lol.  In the strict sense, "holiness" must be inferred onto the Genesis 2:7 to reach your purposed formula.  To be clear, I'm not suggesting Adam was not made in God's image or that he lost that image when he sinned.  I most certainly agree with you there.  Or saying that Adam, when he was first created, could claim or boast of any holiness of his own, he could not.  Whatever holiness we want to assign to Adam upon his creation, it was clearly not his own and was removed when he sinned.  

However, my admitting this doesn't seem to therefore show that Genesis 2:7 is proof of this.  Genesis 2:7, if it is a formula at all, is the depiction of Adam, and mankind, being a reflection of the Triune God they were created after.  

God is Triune; God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.  Mankind, created in His likeness, is body/spirit-soul.  This is what Genesis 2:7 is communicating, in my humble opinion. 

Within the biblical text, God the Father is the epicenter of praise and worship (Phil 4:20, 2:6; John 8:49-50,12:28, 2:16,17:1-4, Heb 5:5, Matt 5:9-13,7:21); everything flows from God the Father for He is the source and planner of all things (John 5:19); He sends the Son but the Son never sends the Father (1John 4:9); He pours out His Spirit but the Spirit never pours out the Father. On the other hand, God the Son carries out the plans and will of the Father (John 5:30, 6:38; Heb 10:11); He is Immanuel, “God with us” in body and flesh; He is the divine in the flesh (1Tim 3:16) and it is said that the Father’s will is accomplished “through” God the Son (John 1:1-14). Additionally, the Holy Spirit reveals the Father’s will (John 15:26-27; 1Cor 2:10; John 16:13;Rom 8:16); but the Father never reveals the Holy Spirit’s will; and the Holy Spirit provides strength and power to carry out the will of the Father (Mic 3:8; Eph 3:16; 2Tim 1:7; Luke 1:17, 1:35, 4:14; Acts 1:8, 10:38; Rom 15:13; 1Cor 5:8; Isa 40:29-31).

This is likened unto a chariot.  The chariot is the body, it carries out the will of the charioteer; the horses are the spirit, the power and life; and the charioteer is the soul, the epicenter and the source and planner.

So to is mankind.  And this is what I think Genesis 2:7, if we keep to the strict formula, is in reference too.

Peace to you brother

May all glory and honor be His

Thank you for your thoughts! Well, I believe we might only have one point that we do not share and that is exactly what did God breathe into Adam.

I feel quite comfortable that God breathed His "spirit" / "holiness" into Adam and not simply "air." Genesis does not explicitly tell us what He breathed into Adam.

1) God did not breathe into any other living creature to begin their life - only Adam. 

2) This allowed Adam to physically be with God and not be destroyed. 

3) The "image" to me, does not mean to suggest Adam looks like God with two legs, two arms, a body and and head, etc., but that he is made in His image by placing His holiness / His spirit into Adam. 

4) Before Adam sinned he was covered with some sort of garment - not made of any materials but perhaps like a holy covering (whatever that looks like).

5) After he sinned, that covering was removed from him and he would not be covered by animal skin.

6) So if we do a before and after picture of Adam (after he sinned), we notice these changes:

              a) he no longer had this outer covering around him,

              b) he could not longer stay in Eden - in God's presence,

              c) he still had all the physical features he was created with.

              d) he still had his mind, conscience, self awareness, nothing was taken from him other than this "outer covering" which I believe represented God's glory / holiness / spirt.

              e) God immediately developed a plan to restore man to the Garden.

              f) Through the cross, He would send His Holy Spirit to reside WITHIN each of us who accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior. This symbolically was the placing of His holiness / spirit / glory within us as if we were in the Garden (would not be perfected until the resurrection).

              g) at the resurrection, those in Christ will be given an immortal body which I believe is the same as Adam was given before the fall - thus, God is restoring us to the same manner as Adam....

              h) I also believe that Jesus would confirm this when He was on the cross. At His baptism, God would place His Spirit within Jesus at the beginning of His ministry. When He was on the cross, Jesus, who was sinless, would take on the sin of the world. This meant that He was now no longer pure and sinless, and consequently, He would say on the cross to God, "into your hands I commit my spirit." Meaning, sin and His Spirit cannot be in the same place together. Jesus would have to return His God given spirit before He died to take on the horrible sins of the world. Now, He would die and be placed into the grave for 3 days and God would restore His spirit within Jesus and now He would also have that same outer covering that Adam had before the fall. And now, Jesus would be able to return to the Garden (heaven) to be with His Father. All of this is symbolic of how God is going to restore us back to the Garden - we must have His spirit / holiness / glory placed into us to be able to be in His presence.

       i) This "restoration" of man is something that can only come from God - He is the only One who has it to give... it is not air, not a spirit as others think, but it is His spirit / holiness / glory that has to be placed back into us once again.

       j) the dead who are resurrected in the second resurrection who rejected Jesus will also be brought  back with their same body, mind, conscienesss, etc., but they will not be given His holiness / spirit / glory and thus will be destroyed by His brillance and holiness. 

 

Hope this makes sense.... Best wishes.

 

 

[Paleouss]

7 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you for your thoughts! Well, I believe we might only have one point that we do not share and that is exactly what did God breathe into Adam.

I feel quite comfortable that God breathed His "spirit" / "holiness" into Adam and not simply "air." Genesis does not explicitly tell us what He breathed into Adam.

Charlie, Peace, love and blessings to you brother.  Reading over your presentation I don't really have much objection in regard to the overarching concepts.  The details I squirm at, but nothing I think leaves us miles apart.  We are very close as a whole.  

One of the things we do not agree upon, as you stated, is what God breathed in Genesis 2:7.  It seems very clear that Genesis does explicitly tell us what God breathed into Adam.  Genisis 2:7 explicitly says, I'll write that again, explicitly says, "God"..."breathed"... "the breath of life".  This fact, that is that Genesis 2:7 explicitly states what was breathed is undeniable.  

The Hebrew word for breath here is nəšāmâ, which means “breath, spirit”.  So we can also say the Genesis 2:7 verse explicitly states that "God"..."breathed"..."the spirit of life" into Adam.  

I notice in your post you maybe imply I am suggesting he breathed "air".  This is not what I am presenting nor what is explicitly stated in Genesis 2:7.  What was breathed was the "spirit of life".  I don't see how anyone could rationally deny this.  That is, what God breathed was of spirit.  It literally says, spirit of life.

7 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

1) God did not breathe into any other living creature to begin their life - only Adam

Well, I will grant that within the biblical text there is no other formula given other than Adam's. 

7 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

2) This allowed Adam to physically be with God and not be destroyed.

Genesis 2:7 is a creation verse.  So Adam's creation was what brought him into the presence of God.  However, I don't know what "not be destroyed" means.  I'm only guessing what you mean, but I would guess you think it means the Genesis 2:7 is referring to a "soul" in some way.  Thus, Adam could not be destroyed. 

7 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

3) The "image" to me, does not mean to suggest Adam looks like God with two legs, two arms, a body and and head, etc., but that he is made in His image by placing His holiness / His spirit into Adam. 

Here you make reference to "image".  The word "image" is not in Genesis 2:7.  Do you mean to reference Genesis 1:26-27?  If so, then we are talking about different things and different verses.  The conversation here is regarding Genesis 2:7 and the formula given in Adam's creation.

The only disagreement we have here is the last part, when you suggest that Genesis 2:7 means to imply, because its not what is explicitly stated, that Genesis 2:7 is referring to "holiness" when it says "life".  Your presentation seems more geared toward quoting Genesis 1:26-27.  Which communicates something different than Genesis 2:7. 

7 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

4) Before Adam sinned he was covered with some sort of garment - not made of any materials but perhaps like a holy covering (whatever that looks like).

If you mean to say God's holiness covered Adam upon his creation.  I don't have much disagreement with this.  However, how it relates to Genesis 2:7 is lost on me.  Other than the fact that you think that "breath of life" or "spirit of life" is synonymous with "spirit of holiness".  Which I see no evidence in scripture to back this up. 

8 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

5) After he sinned, that covering was removed from him and he would not be covered by animal skin.

This seems to have some errors.  That is, Genesis 3:21 says that "the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them".  This was after Adam and Eve sinned.  You stated, above, "and he would not be covered by animal skin".  God "covered" them with "tunics of skin".  Hebrew (Strongs H5785)—hide, leather, skin.

These "tunics of skin", to me, is the first representation that mankind needed a blood substitution, the first example of a "blood sacrifice" that "covers" the sins. It is foreshadowing of the blood of Christ and His substitution and covering of the sins for mankind.  We can be more confident that this might be what it means through Genesis 4:3-5 where Cain and Able are already bringing "offerings".  Able bringing the "first born of his flock" as an offering/sacrifice.

The only problem is, Genesis 2:7 does not speak to this.  Genesis 2:7 speaks to the composition of mankind and to the "spirit of life" that is in mankind, not the "spirit of holiness".  

There is only one reference, that I know of, regarding the "Spirit of holiness" (Rom 1:4).  And in that reference, the word "Spirit" is capitalized.  Unlike the "spirit" in Genesis 2:7.  But the Bible is filled with references of mankind still having this "spirit of life" or the "breath of life" or "breath" or "spirit". 

1. If "breath of life" or "spirit of life" is synonymous with "spirit of holiness".

2. And mankind losses this "spirit of holiness" upon Adam's sin

3. Then there should be no more references to mankind having a "breath of life", or "spirit of life", or "spirit" or "life" in the text.

4. But there are references of mankind having these things after the sin of Adam.

5.  Therefore the "breath of life" or "spirit of life" is not synonymous with "spirit of holiness".  

To me, what you presented is more in line with quoting Genesis 1:26-27.  You would have clear points and logical connection to Gen 1:26-27  for your concept of "holiness" and the losing of it.  However, in regard to Genesis 2:7, the holiness concept has very little to do with Gen 2:7.  It appears to hinge on suggesting that "breath of life" means "spirit of holiness".  I see no verses nor any biblical reasoning that suggest such.  Therefore, to me, Genesis 2:7 is not speaking to your "holiness" topic.

As an aside, to me not related to Genesis 2:7.  It seems to me that one can assert that the Spirit (capital "S") was in Adam in communion before he sinned.  One could find ample verses to imply this, I think.  This Spirit is not the same as the spirit of life (breath of life) but is the Holy Spirit.  When Adam sinned, the Holy Spirit left Adam in some way.  But this concept has nothing to do with Genesis 2:7, in my humble opinion. 

Had a great conversation Charlie.  Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure.

 

Peace to you

[Paleouss]

On 11/4/2023 at 6:21 PM, jeremiah1five said:

His human spirit died. He remained body and soul - no human spirit.

Greetings Jeremiah.  Peace and love to you, my brother.

It might be important to make a distinction between physical life and spiritual life.  That is, it might be important to distinguish that the "spirit" that gave Adam "life" (Gen 2:7) means both (1) physical existence, i.e., physical life..and also means it gave Adam (2) spiritual life.  Both references to life are used in the Bible, so this may be the case.

"Life" here in Genesis 2:7 could be referring to both senses of "life".  Just like the phrase "born again" can refer to both physical birth and spiritual birth.

When this "spirit of life", which gives both physical and spiritual life, is said to die.  It may be referring to one and not the other.  In other words, if we say the spirit is dead within man, we mean spiritually man's spirit is corrupted by sin to the point that the spiritual communion use of the "spirit of life" is dead.  Like a branch on a tree.

Since there appear to be to many verse that make reference to mankind still having a spirit after the sin of Adam (given in other posts).  It therefore would make sense that the spirit may be dead in the spiritual communion sense but it does not mean that man's spirit is gone, nor left, nor taken away.

Although it may need to be renewed or made new again or replaced (not sure here).  The spirit of life is still present however, for without it mankind would return to dust, we have verses that tell us this.  It may be just dead in the spiritual  communion sense.  Again, because to many verses refer to man having a spirit after the sin of Adam.

Now some claim that the spirit and soul within the Bible are used synonymously.  I don't think this is the case at all, as I have presented some verses in this thread to show just that.  And in the case of some verses just presenting the words "soul" and "body", the text has clear reasons why this is done, I think.

 (Matt 6:25 NKJV)                                       hymōn psychē
"Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?                           psychē

Here in Matt 6:25 the author uses the words hymōn psychē (Eng. your soul) in the context to illustrate life from the perspective of distinct personhood. The author intends the reader to conceptualize that the topic is the fear for ‘your’ life. It would be reasonable to conclude, due to context, that the author wants to avoid any implication to ‘life’ as it relates to God in the phrase “your life”. Why? Because the very context is the individual's fear for their own life, which implies a lack of faith and reliance on God, and the word psychē (soul) conveys this exact message.  It clearly isn't God's soul the verse is referring too. 

Faith and reliance on God is the actual message that the author is trying to teach. So the use of pneuma (meaning spirit) here would confuse the reader, for pneuma brings the connotation of possession or relation to God, for God gave the spirit of life and is the God of spirits.  So it is understandable why the author uses psychē instead of pneuma here.

Yes, the two words are interrelated regarding the topic of life, for we know that the spirit-soul is wrapped up in oneness and can only be logically divided or divided by the Spirit who is trying to discern the intentions of the heart. But this does not in any way suggest that psychē and pneuma do not have nuanced differences. This verse is a perfect example of those nuanced differences and the proper use of one over the other.

(Matt 10:28 NKJV) "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This verse again illustrates life from the perspective of distinct personhood. The author again, like Matt 6:25, references “fear” from the perspective of the individual. So it is understandable why the writer would use only psychē (soul), for he intends to engender the perspective of the personhood of the individual regarding life, and the individual’s fear for it.  Just like in Matt 6:25, using pneuma (spirit) here would confuse the reader.

 

Peace to you brother

[Charlie744]

3 hours ago, Paleouss said:

Charlie, Peace, love and blessings to you brother.  Reading over your presentation I don't really have much objection in regard to the overarching concepts.  The details I squirm at, but nothing I think leaves us miles apart.  We are very close as a whole.  

One of the things we do not agree upon, as you stated, is what God breathed in Genesis 2:7.  It seems very clear that Genesis does explicitly tell us what God breathed into Adam.  Genisis 2:7 explicitly says, I'll write that again, explicitly says, "God"..."breathed"... "the breath of life".  This fact, that is that Genesis 2:7 explicitly states what was breathed is undeniable.  

The Hebrew word for breath here is nəšāmâ, which means “breath, spirit”.  So we can also say the Genesis 2:7 verse explicitly states that "God"..."breathed"..."the spirit of life" into Adam.  

I notice in your post you maybe imply I am suggesting he breathed "air".  This is not what I am presenting nor what is explicitly stated in Genesis 2:7.  What was breathed was the "spirit of life".  I don't see how anyone could rationally deny this.  That is, what God breathed was of spirit.  It literally says, spirit of life.

Well, I will grant that within the biblical text there is no other formula given other than Adam's. 

Genesis 2:7 is a creation verse.  So Adam's creation was what brought him into the presence of God.  However, I don't know what "not be destroyed" means.  I'm only guessing what you mean, but I would guess you think it means the Genesis 2:7 is referring to a "soul" in some way.  Thus, Adam could not be destroyed. 

Here you make reference to "image".  The word "image" is not in Genesis 2:7.  Do you mean to reference Genesis 1:26-27?  If so, then we are talking about different things and different verses.  The conversation here is regarding Genesis 2:7 and the formula given in Adam's creation.

The only disagreement we have here is the last part, when you suggest that Genesis 2:7 means to imply, because its not what is explicitly stated, that Genesis 2:7 is referring to "holiness" when it says "life".  Your presentation seems more geared toward quoting Genesis 1:26-27.  Which communicates something different than Genesis 2:7. 

If you mean to say God's holiness covered Adam upon his creation.  I don't have much disagreement with this.  However, how it relates to Genesis 2:7 is lost on me.  Other than the fact that you think that "breath of life" or "spirit of life" is synonymous with "spirit of holiness".  Which I see no evidence in scripture to back this up. 

This seems to have some errors.  That is, Genesis 3:21 says that "the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them".  This was after Adam and Eve sinned.  You stated, above, "and he would not be covered by animal skin".  God "covered" them with "tunics of skin".  Hebrew (Strongs H5785)—hide, leather, skin.

These "tunics of skin", to me, is the first representation that mankind needed a blood substitution, the first example of a "blood sacrifice" that "covers" the sins. It is foreshadowing of the blood of Christ and His substitution and covering of the sins for mankind.  We can be more confident that this might be what it means through Genesis 4:3-5 where Cain and Able are already bringing "offerings".  Able bringing the "first born of his flock" as an offering/sacrifice.

The only problem is, Genesis 2:7 does not speak to this.  Genesis 2:7 speaks to the composition of mankind and to the "spirit of life" that is in mankind, not the "spirit of holiness".  

There is only one reference, that I know of, regarding the "Spirit of holiness" (Rom 1:4).  And in that reference, the word "Spirit" is capitalized.  Unlike the "spirit" in Genesis 2:7.  But the Bible is filled with references of mankind still having this "spirit of life" or the "breath of life" or "breath" or "spirit". 

1. If "breath of life" or "spirit of life" is synonymous with "spirit of holiness".

2. And mankind losses this "spirit of holiness" upon Adam's sin

3. Then there should be no more references to mankind having a "breath of life", or "spirit of life", or "spirit" or "life" in the text.

4. But there are references of mankind having these things after the sin of Adam.

5.  Therefore the "breath of life" or "spirit of life" is not synonymous with "spirit of holiness".  

To me, what you presented is more in line with quoting Genesis 1:26-27.  You would have clear points and logical connection to Gen 1:26-27  for your concept of "holiness" and the losing of it.  However, in regard to Genesis 2:7, the holiness concept has very little to do with Gen 2:7.  It appears to hinge on suggesting that "breath of life" means "spirit of holiness".  I see no verses nor any biblical reasoning that suggest such.  Therefore, to me, Genesis 2:7 is not speaking to your "holiness" topic.

As an aside, to me not related to Genesis 2:7.  It seems to me that one can assert that the Spirit (capital "S") was in Adam in communion before he sinned.  One could find ample verses to imply this, I think.  This Spirit is not the same as the spirit of life (breath of life) but is the Holy Spirit.  When Adam sinned, the Holy Spirit left Adam in some way.  But this concept has nothing to do with Genesis 2:7, in my humble opinion. 

Had a great conversation Charlie.  Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure.

 

Peace to you

Thank you for all your time and thoughts on this terrific topic. I have addressed this in my commentary of Daniel and will go back and pull things together for a proper response to this... it will take a little time but perhaps in 2 days.... best wishes and nice comments.

[Charlie744]

On 1/30/2025 at 9:30 AM, Paleouss said:

Charlie, Peace, love and blessings to you brother.  Reading over your presentation I don't really have much objection in regard to the overarching concepts.  The details I squirm at, but nothing I think leaves us miles apart.  We are very close as a whole.  

One of the things we do not agree upon, as you stated, is what God breathed in Genesis 2:7.  It seems very clear that Genesis does explicitly tell us what God breathed into Adam.  Genisis 2:7 explicitly says, I'll write that again, explicitly says, "God"..."breathed"... "the breath of life".  This fact, that is that Genesis 2:7 explicitly states what was breathed is undeniable.  

The Hebrew word for breath here is nəšāmâ, which means “breath, spirit”.  So we can also say the Genesis 2:7 verse explicitly states that "God"..."breathed"..."the spirit of life" into Adam.  

I notice in your post you maybe imply I am suggesting he breathed "air".  This is not what I am presenting nor what is explicitly stated in Genesis 2:7.  What was breathed was the "spirit of life".  I don't see how anyone could rationally deny this.  That is, what God breathed was of spirit.  It literally says, spirit of life.

Well, I will grant that within the biblical text there is no other formula given other than Adam's. 

Genesis 2:7 is a creation verse.  So Adam's creation was what brought him into the presence of God.  However, I don't know what "not be destroyed" means.  I'm only guessing what you mean, but I would guess you think it means the Genesis 2:7 is referring to a "soul" in some way.  Thus, Adam could not be destroyed. 

Here you make reference to "image".  The word "image" is not in Genesis 2:7.  Do you mean to reference Genesis 1:26-27?  If so, then we are talking about different things and different verses.  The conversation here is regarding Genesis 2:7 and the formula given in Adam's creation.

The only disagreement we have here is the last part, when you suggest that Genesis 2:7 means to imply, because its not what is explicitly stated, that Genesis 2:7 is referring to "holiness" when it says "life".  Your presentation seems more geared toward quoting Genesis 1:26-27.  Which communicates something different than Genesis 2:7. 

If you mean to say God's holiness covered Adam upon his creation.  I don't have much disagreement with this.  However, how it relates to Genesis 2:7 is lost on me.  Other than the fact that you think that "breath of life" or "spirit of life" is synonymous with "spirit of holiness".  Which I see no evidence in scripture to back this up. 

This seems to have some errors.  That is, Genesis 3:21 says that "the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them".  This was after Adam and Eve sinned.  You stated, above, "and he would not be covered by animal skin".  God "covered" them with "tunics of skin".  Hebrew (Strongs H5785)—hide, leather, skin.

These "tunics of skin", to me, is the first representation that mankind needed a blood substitution, the first example of a "blood sacrifice" that "covers" the sins. It is foreshadowing of the blood of Christ and His substitution and covering of the sins for mankind.  We can be more confident that this might be what it means through Genesis 4:3-5 where Cain and Able are already bringing "offerings".  Able bringing the "first born of his flock" as an offering/sacrifice.

The only problem is, Genesis 2:7 does not speak to this.  Genesis 2:7 speaks to the composition of mankind and to the "spirit of life" that is in mankind, not the "spirit of holiness".  

There is only one reference, that I know of, regarding the "Spirit of holiness" (Rom 1:4).  And in that reference, the word "Spirit" is capitalized.  Unlike the "spirit" in Genesis 2:7.  But the Bible is filled with references of mankind still having this "spirit of life" or the "breath of life" or "breath" or "spirit". 

1. If "breath of life" or "spirit of life" is synonymous with "spirit of holiness".

2. And mankind losses this "spirit of holiness" upon Adam's sin

3. Then there should be no more references to mankind having a "breath of life", or "spirit of life", or "spirit" or "life" in the text.

4. But there are references of mankind having these things after the sin of Adam.

5.  Therefore the "breath of life" or "spirit of life" is not synonymous with "spirit of holiness".  

To me, what you presented is more in line with quoting Genesis 1:26-27.  You would have clear points and logical connection to Gen 1:26-27  for your concept of "holiness" and the losing of it.  However, in regard to Genesis 2:7, the holiness concept has very little to do with Gen 2:7.  It appears to hinge on suggesting that "breath of life" means "spirit of holiness".  I see no verses nor any biblical reasoning that suggest such.  Therefore, to me, Genesis 2:7 is not speaking to your "holiness" topic.

As an aside, to me not related to Genesis 2:7.  It seems to me that one can assert that the Spirit (capital "S") was in Adam in communion before he sinned.  One could find ample verses to imply this, I think.  This Spirit is not the same as the spirit of life (breath of life) but is the Holy Spirit.  When Adam sinned, the Holy Spirit left Adam in some way.  But this concept has nothing to do with Genesis 2:7, in my humble opinion. 

Had a great conversation Charlie.  Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure.

 

Peace to you

9:24f-Bring in everlasting righteousness

Daniel had recorded the three types of sin in 9:24: c, d, and e. Man has been guilty of these since the fall of Adam. As a result of his sin, Adam (man) was removed from the Garden. His sinful nature could not be found in His presence. There is no individual, organization, church denomination, practice, or society that has been or could approach the definition of righteousness. We might define this enigmatic term in one of two ways: In a worldly manner, it might be termed the quality of being morally true. Others can see our actions, thoughts, and behavior. It applies to our personal relationships as well as the myriad societal relationships we travel through each day, however, there is certainly no righteousness quality to be found in there; we might as well reference the golden rule.

When we delve into the spiritual dimension of righteousness, it takes on a deeper significance and requires a different perspective. In this context, righteousness is not merely about our outward actions or moral behavior, but it encompasses being in right alignment with God's standards, His will, and His character. It implies living in harmony with His divine purpose and reflecting His holiness in our thoughts, attitudes, and actions. And the only relationship we can possibly have with God is one of spiritual righteousness. This is on His terms, not ours. And since the fall, mankind has lost that spirit, that righteousness, and that holiness that was originally breathed into Adam at the time of his creation. In Genesis 2:7, we have the formula for how God created Adam as a living soul.

⁷And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

There are only two components that made Adam: dust from the ground and God breathing His Spirit into that dust. That was it. A+B=C. C represents the living soul. The living soul is not one of a three-part being that stands alone or exists without A or B. If either A or B is removed, there is no more C; It does not fly away somewhere; it does not go up or down for eternity. It simply means he or she is no longer a living soul (C). Further, B is or was not "air" that God breathed into Adam to jump-start his existence. It is the result of this divine interaction. This union sets humanity apart from the rest of creation and reflects our special status as beings made in the image and likeness of God. God had placed (breathed) His righteousness, His holiness, His Spirit within Adam.

Adam's expulsion from the Garden of Eden following his disobedience illustrates the profound consequences of sin disrupting this divine-human relationship. Sin introduced a separation between humanity and God, tarnishing the purity and righteousness originally bestowed upon Adam. The expulsion symbolizes not only physical removal from the Garden but also a spiritual estrangement from God's presence. Once again, Adam did not have his own righteousness. It was God’s holiness that returned to Him, not the holiness or righteousness of Adam; there was / is no other place outside of God where His holiness was meant to be, or can be found.

And this is exactly what God’s plan of salvation is all about: how will He get His holiness, His righteousness, His Holy Spirit back into us once again so we can be in His presence.

When Adam sinned and disobeyed God, the consequences were not immediate physical death but rather a spiritual separation from God. Adam, though still physically alive, was spiritually dead or separated from God's presence. This spiritual death introduced a state of spiritual darkness and alienation from God's righteousness and holiness. This is exactly what happened to the Jews who rejected and crucified their Messiah, Jesus. This abominable act would cause God to make desolate their spiritual relationship for the next 2000 years (time of the Gentiles). God's plan of salvation, fulfilled through Jesus Christ, aims to reconcile humanity to Himself and restore the broken relationship caused by sin. Through faith in Christ, individuals are reconciled to God and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who dwells within them and empowers them to live in accordance with God's righteousness and holiness. Ultimately, the restoration of God's righteousness and holiness within believers enables them to experience true spiritual life and communion with God, both in the present age and for eternity.

Everyone born after Adam (outside the Garden) is a living being, not a living soul.

Consequently, we do not have His Spirit, His holiness, or His righteousness within us. Therefore, there is nothing that moves on after we die. Our body goes into the ground. The giving of the Torah, with its sacrificial rituals, served as a temporary means of reconciliation between God and His people. These rituals were a foreshadowing of the ultimate sacrifice that Jesus would make on the cross, bringing everlasting forgiveness and restoration to all who believe. Through the Holy Spirit, believers receive the assurance of God's presence and the power to live transformed lives. God would send His Holy Spirit to the Jews on Pentecost, symbolizing the breathing back of His spirit once again into man. This was God’s way of restoring His righteousness and holiness within us—already, but not yet. It must be restored in man before we are able to be with God, but it will only be consummated or perfected at His second coming. His entire plan of salvation aims to restore each and every one of us to the precise state in which He originally created Adam.

Just before Jesus died, He turned to His Father and said in Luke 23:46,

⁴⁶And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit. Having said this, He breathed His last.

This final statement from Jesus not only echoed the prayer of distress and trust in His God expressed by David in Psalm 31:5, but it also revealed that Jesus had to relinquish His Holy Spirit to God because He had taken on the sin of the world. Sin and God’s Holy Spirit—given to Him by God on the day of His anointing at His baptism—could not coexist. However, God would restore His Holy Spirit within Jesus on the day of His resurrection. This symbolizes the return of the Holy Spirit to dwell within humanity at His second coming, enabling us to be in God's presence once again. When God beholds His people at the end, He will not see our sin. Instead, we will be clothed in His righteousness.  As stated in Isaiah 61:10 and in Titus 3:4-7,

¹⁰I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom deck himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

⁴ But after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared, ⁵Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; ⁶Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; ⁷That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Righteousness or holiness will not be attained on this side of heaven. Good works and treating our fellow humans with dignity and care can never reach the heights of righteousness. It is an attribute that solely belongs to God, the lawgiver, and is reflected in His laws. If He desires to infuse His righteousness within us, it remains His righteousness and His gift to us. No individual can be justified by their own works apart from God’s ordinance. Only God has this righteousness to impart; it cannot be purchased, earned, worked for, or acquired in any manner. It is beyond the capability of humanity to generate any form of righteousness, and despite our best intentions, actions, and deeds, all our works are akin to filthy rags. In Isaiah 64:6, he writes,

⁶But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness’s are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind,

Only the righteousness of Christ (not our own) will enter His kingdom.

[BeyondET]

22 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

9:24f-Bring in everlasting righteousness

Daniel had recorded the three types of sin in 9:24: c, d, and e. Man has been guilty of these since the fall of Adam. As a result of his sin, Adam (man) was removed from the Garden. His sinful nature could not be found in His presence. There is no individual, organization, church denomination, practice, or society that has been or could approach the definition of righteousness. We might define this enigmatic term in one of two ways: In a worldly manner, it might be termed the quality of being morally true. Others can see our actions, thoughts, and behavior. It applies to our personal relationships as well as the myriad societal relationships we travel through each day, however, there is certainly no righteousness quality to be found in there; we might as well reference the golden rule.

When we delve into the spiritual dimension of righteousness, it takes on a deeper significance and requires a different perspective. In this context, righteousness is not merely about our outward actions or moral behavior, but it encompasses being in right alignment with God's standards, His will, and His character. It implies living in harmony with His divine purpose and reflecting His holiness in our thoughts, attitudes, and actions. And the only relationship we can possibly have with God is one of spiritual righteousness. This is on His terms, not ours. And since the fall, mankind has lost that spirit, that righteousness, and that holiness that was originally breathed into Adam at the time of his creation. In Genesis 2:7, we have the formula for how God created Adam as a living soul.

⁷And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

There are only two components that made Adam: dust from the ground and God breathing His Spirit into that dust. That was it. A+B=C. C represents the living soul. The living soul is not one of a three-part being that stands alone or exists without A or B. If either A or B is removed, there is no more C; It does not fly away somewhere; it does not go up or down for eternity. It simply means he or she is no longer a living soul (C). Further, B is or was not "air" that God breathed into Adam to jump-start his existence. It is the result of this divine interaction. This union sets humanity apart from the rest of creation and reflects our special status as beings made in the image and likeness of God. God had placed (breathed) His righteousness, His holiness, His Spirit within Adam.

Adam's expulsion from the Garden of Eden following his disobedience illustrates the profound consequences of sin disrupting this divine-human relationship. Sin introduced a separation between humanity and God, tarnishing the purity and righteousness originally bestowed upon Adam. The expulsion symbolizes not only physical removal from the Garden but also a spiritual estrangement from God's presence. Once again, Adam did not have his own righteousness. It was God’s holiness that returned to Him, not the holiness or righteousness of Adam; there was / is no other place outside of God where His holiness was meant to be, or can be found.

And this is exactly what God’s plan of salvation is all about: how will He get His holiness, His righteousness, His Holy Spirit back into us once again so we can be in His presence.

When Adam sinned and disobeyed God, the consequences were not immediate physical death but rather a spiritual separation from God. Adam, though still physically alive, was spiritually dead or separated from God's presence. This spiritual death introduced a state of spiritual darkness and alienation from God's righteousness and holiness. This is exactly what happened to the Jews who rejected and crucified their Messiah, Jesus. This abominable act would cause God to make desolate their spiritual relationship for the next 2000 years (time of the Gentiles). God's plan of salvation, fulfilled through Jesus Christ, aims to reconcile humanity to Himself and restore the broken relationship caused by sin. Through faith in Christ, individuals are reconciled to God and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, who dwells within them and empowers them to live in accordance with God's righteousness and holiness. Ultimately, the restoration of God's righteousness and holiness within believers enables them to experience true spiritual life and communion with God, both in the present age and for eternity.

Everyone born after Adam (outside the Garden) is a living being, not a living soul.

Consequently, we do not have His Spirit, His holiness, or His righteousness within us. Therefore, there is nothing that moves on after we die. Our body goes into the ground. The giving of the Torah, with its sacrificial rituals, served as a temporary means of reconciliation between God and His people. These rituals were a foreshadowing of the ultimate sacrifice that Jesus would make on the cross, bringing everlasting forgiveness and restoration to all who believe. Through the Holy Spirit, believers receive the assurance of God's presence and the power to live transformed lives. God would send His Holy Spirit to the Jews on Pentecost, symbolizing the breathing back of His spirit once again into man. This was God’s way of restoring His righteousness and holiness within us—already, but not yet. It must be restored in man before we are able to be with God, but it will only be consummated or perfected at His second coming. His entire plan of salvation aims to restore each and every one of us to the precise state in which He originally created Adam.

Just before Jesus died, He turned to His Father and said in Luke 23:46,

⁴⁶And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit. Having said this, He breathed His last.

This final statement from Jesus not only echoed the prayer of distress and trust in His God expressed by David in Psalm 31:5, but it also revealed that Jesus had to relinquish His Holy Spirit to God because He had taken on the sin of the world. Sin and God’s Holy Spirit—given to Him by God on the day of His anointing at His baptism—could not coexist. However, God would restore His Holy Spirit within Jesus on the day of His resurrection. This symbolizes the return of the Holy Spirit to dwell within humanity at His second coming, enabling us to be in God's presence once again. When God beholds His people at the end, He will not see our sin. Instead, we will be clothed in His righteousness.  As stated in Isaiah 61:10 and in Titus 3:4-7,

¹⁰I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom deck himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

⁴ But after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared, ⁵Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; ⁶Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; ⁷That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Righteousness or holiness will not be attained on this side of heaven. Good works and treating our fellow humans with dignity and care can never reach the heights of righteousness. It is an attribute that solely belongs to God, the lawgiver, and is reflected in His laws. If He desires to infuse His righteousness within us, it remains His righteousness and His gift to us. No individual can be justified by their own works apart from God’s ordinance. Only God has this righteousness to impart; it cannot be purchased, earned, worked for, or acquired in any manner. It is beyond the capability of humanity to generate any form of righteousness, and despite our best intentions, actions, and deeds, all our works are akin to filthy rags. In Isaiah 64:6, he writes,

⁶But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness’s are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind,

Only the righteousness of Christ (not our own) will enter His kingdom.

Must of been not much of a separation between humanity and God. Cain and Abel would bring offerings to God, certainly Adam and Eve were there, the whole family was in God's presence. Later on God grants Eve another seed.

There's no limit to what can be in God's presence. 

Job 1;6

One day the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.

 

Edited February 4 by BeyondET