Eating Unclean Food Is an Abomination to the Lord!

[TheBlade]

25 minutes ago, other one said:

No, if you are sleeping with someone other than your wife, you do not have the Holy Spirit and all that goes with that.   If you want to do those things, I would say it would be safe to say the Holy Spirit is not leading your life.   I've been married 53 years and never wanted to sleep with anyone else.

Maybe back a statement up with scripture?   If were talking saved and we did what the Father asked Luke 11 13  you know received the holy Spirit since we believed and then Christ said with out any if ands or buts "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever".

What the holy Spirit will leave but not Christ/God? Is He not in us also? He said I will never leave you nor forsake you. So from a simple lie to adultery He never leaves. There are allot of "sins" I have never done or thought yet a simple lie is the same its sin and God hates it so what matters is HIS righteousness that God looks at not ours. All born into sin.. all the same. He finds us.. as the song just said "clothed in His righteousness" oh again what are the odds playing now "Holy Holy Holy are you God worthy worthy worthy are you God". 

Like another song..  I just want the world when they see me they see HIM! 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Here is looking at Mat and Mark in context and following through

Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

The Pharisees only were offended by this

Mat 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

Then Peter still needed understanding and asked

Mat 15:15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

Since Mat 13:34  says, "without a parable spake he not unto them" (the multitudes)

Mat 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

And here is probably not where you want to make an argument for meats (specifically) since Jesus brings his point to unwashen hands, next verse

Mat 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

As it shows in Mark 7:1 when the Pharisees and certain of the scribes from Jerusalem noticed they ate with unwashen hands

Mark 7:2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

Mark 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

Ceremonial in nature, traditions, teachings for the doctrines of men

Mark 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

And how they do that with the thing they call Corban, but summing it up here

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Mark 7:14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

Mark 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Mat 7:16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

This is likely where Paul gets "the nothing" from in the above when he says (in the context of eating

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself... (full verse below)

Same as with Matthew, it says without a parable he did not speak to them so it says

Mark 7:17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

And here it's not just about unwashen hands but all meats

Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Mark 7:20 And he said,

That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

Mark 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

Mark 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

And James 3:6 confirms the same

And when Paul said, I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself in Romans 14:14 he also said,  Unto the pure all things are pure in Titus 1:15 adding,  but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Showing a defiled conscience, in this one while in another place a "seared conscience" as it relates to these things.

Just as there is the mention of "divers" and "strange" doctrines in Hebrews 13:9 which one can be carried about by, it speaks this way

Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Showing that the heart is established with grace, and those occupied with meats (for the belly) are not even profited by them.  

And as far as it pertains to meats, which it says, the preoccupation with meats has not even profited them 

Which still agrees with Christ

Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly

Because it is good that the heart is established with grace Heb 13:9

1 Cr 6:13 a Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them.

And again,

Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

And as far as Acts 15:24 goes which touches on the Gentiles keeping the law and circumcision as some were teaching James says

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

To whom we gave no such commandment

Acts 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 

Shows in the above that they are sending Paul to touch upon what they share here

Acts 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if 
ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well.

Fare ye well.

And Paul does touch on this one here

1 Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

1 Cr 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

1 Cr 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

As far as this liberty goes, that which is liberty to you (to perhaps think nothing more of it) can also be shown to be stumblingblock or offense but to what is considered a weak (not a strong) brother

1 Cr 8:12 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

And here he says (full verse from above)

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

And the same here, showing another is grieved by your meat (not that you should be)

Romans 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Paul goes on to say,

Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

So it is evil for that man who "eateth with offence" and he adds,

Its never for the stronger brothers sake but the weaker's sake

Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

All of which  pertains to a weak brother, whether it causes him to stumble, or be offended or is made weak by your liberty (because he does not yet have that liberty of yours)

Shows us also that man's faith allows him or disallows him something, and until his faith is strong and his doubts are dissolved by it I believe this applies

Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

On the one have we have Acts 15:29 

That ye abstain from meats offered to idols

Which is not meats in general but that which is offered to an idol (which Paul goes into in 1 Cr 8) which has to do with consciences (not your but anothers)

On the other hand we have the "divers and strange doctrines" used in the context of meats (for the belly) and being preoccupied therein verses grace (by which the heart is strengthened) and also that which falls under what is called the doctrines of devils which pertain not to the permission of meats but such doctrines that teach you to abstain from meats.

1 Ti 4:1-3 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

And continues here,

"every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused"

1 Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 

adding "IF it be received with thanksgiving..."

And, "For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer."

Now that part is a shady area for me yet when it come to every creature of God is good and not to be refused, and so in what way can certain creatures be understood as not to be refused as far as the word of God goes there. That one needs a little better explanation for me personally (yet) to be certain. But he always gives us a better understanding, it always comes so I will have to wait on that one.

And then that continues

1 Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

So, "nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained".

That's what I have so far outside of touching on the ordinances that were abolished and what the fullest picture is as it pertains to the carnal ordinances. I still would love to look into that as well. Sorry so long but its good to have something laid out to refer to and see the context and where various things are touched upon and in which way they are, I always find it helpful anyway.

 

[Bro.Tan]

17 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We are under Grace, not the Law.

If you can't figure that out I am afraid no one can help you.

Which law you speaking of, Paul talks about more then one law?

[other one]

10 minutes ago, TheBlade said:

Maybe back a statement up with scripture?   If were talking saved and we did what the Father asked Luke 11 13  you know received the holy Spirit since we believed and then Christ said with out any if ands or buts "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever".

What the holy Spirit will leave but not Christ/God? Is He not in us also? He said I will never leave you nor forsake you. So from a simple lie to adultery He never leaves. There are allot of "sins" I have never done or thought yet a simple lie is the same its sin and God hates it so what matters is HIS righteousness that God looks at not ours. All born into sin.. all the same. He finds us.. as the song just said "clothed in His righteousness" oh again what are the odds playing now "Holy Holy Holy are you God worthy worthy worthy are you God". 

Like another song..  I just want the world when they see me they see HIM! 

Heb 10:19-28

19  Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23  Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25  not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,27  but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
ESV

 

[Bro.Tan]

18 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

If we write out what is said here, notice he asks "WHICH"? 

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which?

Mat 19-19  Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Notice Jesus doesn't tell him the dietary laws

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

And we know that sorrow of the world worketh death (to be repented of)

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

 

 

 

That's true, I also know that the Commandments consist of the ten and the Sabbath day is not mention either, but we know all the prophets, apostles and even Jesus kept the Sabbath day. 

Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16) 

Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday).

But of course many people rather attend a day that's not in the Bible at all (Sunday) and also toss the dietary law with it.  

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

19 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:14

I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to the one who thinks something is unclean, to that person it is unclean.

 

 

‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭

Having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

 

 

‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:16‭-‬17‬ ‭

Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— [17] things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

 

 

The New Testament shows us that we have freedom the Jewish people didn't have. Paul told Jews who believed in Jesus that things were different. He never once told people to follow kosher. If he did, please show me.

 

 

 

In Leviticus, 23^rd Chapter the sabbath day and the High Holy Days which begin I believe on the new moon. Are the feast of the Lord's. These days are to be observe in their season. In Colossians 2:16-17, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. These feast days are the plans of God, they represent the future, with example from the past. All Holy Days are not to eat or drink, such as the atonement, but still to be observe. So this is actually what a person would say to someone who do not keep these feast day of the Lord, if they were judging them on those High and Holy Sabbath days, they were keeping. They would quoted Colossians 2: 16-17. So if you keep the first day of the week, Sunday, then it makes no sense to use this verse. You cannot worship other days that’s not written in the Bible to do, and then use the Bible to justify it. So if you keep another day thats not written in the Bible, then you are doing something on your own, thus it would really be contradictorily. 

[Bro.Tan]

22 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

This appears to show we work out what is being worked in us by God (as shown to us in the following verse there)

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The fear and trembling there is also shown us in how they received Titus also

2 Cr 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all,  how with fear and trembling ye received him.

In both places they are in a state on obedience (not of disobedience) walking in the will of God (who was working in them)

Both examples show their obedience here

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed,

And here

2 Cr 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, 

I would think the same kind of fear would be similar to what is shown us in the Psalm concerning the assembly of the saints

Psalm 89:7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.

 

That's right, we love God for his righteousness and his mercy endure forever, etc. But we fear God when we are disobedient, etc. Jesus says in  Luke 12:5 (KJV)

But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/13/2023 at 6:15 AM, Slibhin said:

Actually duck is kosher, it's just not typically part of the Jewish diet.

There is know Jewish diet, we talking God's dietary laws. In the scriptures it's written in Leviticus 11: 13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, 14 and the vulture, and the kite after his kind; 15 every raven after his kind; 16 and the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, 17 and the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, 18 and the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, 19 and the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. 20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

Which one refers to the duck?

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:22 PM, Vine Abider said:

That is an interesting response, and I do see your point.  However, God is not the God of confusion and I doubt that He would tell Peter something in a vision, using food as the symbology, that wasn't true of both the symbol and the real object (Cornelius & household) the vision was pointing to.

Based on earlier interaction, I suspect we will only go round and round on this, but one verse (of so very many, many) that comes to mind is "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Rom 10:4)  In Him the law is fulfilled and is impossible apart from Him.  Therefore we must abide in His indwelling Spirit, and only by His inner impowering can the law be fulfilled through us.  

Thank you for seeing the point in Acts 10 Ch. Concerning Romans 10:4, I would ask you, what law is Christ the end of? Keep in mind, God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing.  (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood. 

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, FJK said:

That's true, but does being under Grace actually mean?

Are we freed from the law to do anything we wish without penalty?

This merits a good deal of thought.

No, God told us he would write the Laws on our hearts, we want to do what is right at all times, the Holy Spirit lives in us and GROANS continually, as he leads us unto pleasing God always, if we listen to him. 

As I quoted in James, God will not forgive a man his sins unless he TURNS from those sins. If you go out drinking and partying on Fri. then ask God's forgiveness, meanwhile you intend to go back out parting the next Fri. God will not forgive your former transgression so that you can consume it upon your own lusts. Law can only condemn, only Faith makes us Righteous. Why? Because we believe on the Son of God's Righteousness, not ours, that says we acknowledge we are unrighteous and even evil in God's eyes, so we look toward His Righteousness as our only hope. Thus God can take this type of heart and MOLD it to become like unto what His image is, without a heart that trusts solely in God's ways and Righteousness, then that heart can never be changed, it will always trust in self, and mankind's hearts are FILTHY & EVIL continually, so says God.

The Law can do nothing because the Law only identifies our transgressions, it can not change us, only trusting in His Righteousness can change us. If we lust after the flesh, and trust in God, he shows and teaches us how to put that lust OFF and AWAY. We understand God is a spirit, and our Spirit Man is what is reborn, so we understand lust of the flesh is an illusion of sorts, it brings pleasure, but we get more true pleasure in pleasing God. So, we learn to bind these thoughts which get whispered by the liar Satan, and once you quit listening unto him, he will flee or go away. So, over and over we learn how to discipline ourselves by FAITH ALONE, at no time can we make the Laws we broke go away, that can only be FORGIVEN via unmerited Love. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Revelation Man