Is it the Holy Spirit or the Human Spirit in Romans 8?

[Vine Abider]

I’ve heard translators have a difficult time in Romans chapter 8 in trying to determine if various verses are talking about the HS or our human spirit, in in a few places I can see their difficulty.  Translators will capitalize “spirit” when they think it is God’s Spirit being spoken of and use lower case when they think it is our spirit. Some verses are pretty obvious regarding which it should be, like in verse 6:

“The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the spirit is life and peace.”

Here Paul is clearly differentiating between two human faculties – flesh and spirit.  But the translators struggle in many other verses, and in some I think they get it wrong, like in verses 4 & 5:

“Do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit” . . . For those who are according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.”

In the above passage, I think it is still contrasting between our flesh and our spirit.  And translators look to see if the article “the” is placed before “spirit” to help determine whether it is God’s Spirit or ours – that is, the definite article “the” being used seems to convey His Spirit.  However, in verse 5 of the NASB, “the” appears before one instance of “spirit” and not before another.  Correctly rendered it would read, “those who are according to spirit the things of the Spirit.”

Verse 9 is another place most translations use a capital “S” Spirit, where there is no definite article before it.  Here is that verse according to the Greek:

“You now are not in flesh but in spirit, if indeed Spirit of God dwells in you. However, if anyone has not Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him.”

Anyways, I just find it interesting that it seems like many translations make extra effort to insert “the” in places and assign most instances of “spirit” to God’s Spirit.  Do you think this is one of the reasons a good deal of Christians don’t seem to realize they have a human spirit (which is joined to the Lord’s Spirit as per 1 Cor 6:17)?

[Mr. M]

17 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Anyways, I just find it interesting that it seems like many translations make extra effort to insert “the” in places and assign most instances of “spirit” to God’s Spirit.  Do you think this is one of the reasons a good deal of Christians don’t seem to realize they have a human spirit (which is joined to the Lord’s Spirit as per 1 Cor 6:17)?

The problem is not in realizing they have a spirit, but that they can receive wisdom directly from The Spirit, to their spirit and become aware of this by an inner Voice. This is because of a lack of due diligence, not unbelief. Romans 8 is fulfilled in this reality:

Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 

17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, 

if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

The reason Paul immediately turns to the suffering of the servant is because

the enemy is well aware of whom is receiving Spirit to spirit, and opposes

the work of Christ in us. Those who are not turning to the Spirit the enemy 

can ignore and assign lesser, unclean spirits to distract them, because they are

not a threat to his power and authority. 

The First and Greatest Commandment: SHEMAH, O ISRAEL. Listen and Obey.

The fully functioning Christian is in obedience to the Spirit, by the Mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 

15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 

16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

A married couple and local missionaries came to our Rescue Mission once to witness in songs and testimonies. They sang the most wonderful, simple and somewhat humorous song called "Shut Up and Listen".  

Edited November 25, 2023 by Mr. M

[Mr. M]

13 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

The fully functioning Christian is in obedience to the Spirit, by the Mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

This is the proper comprehension of Paul when he speaks of the Spirit "dwelling in you".

It means that you are listening when He speaks, or you are "none of His".

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,

if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not

the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Mr. M

[steve morrow]

LEAN  NOT  UNTO  THINE  OWN  UNDERSTANDING

 

PROVERBS  21:16   the man that wandereth out of ---THE  WAY  OF  UNDERSTANDING---  shall remain in the congregation of the dead

 

MATTHEW 22:31  but as touching the resurrection of the dead have you not read that which was spoken unto you by  GOD  saying 

--22:33--  I  AM  THE  GOD  OF  ABRAHAM  AND  THE  GOD  OF  ISAAC  AND  THE  GOD  JACOB  ---  GOD  is  not  the  GOD  of  the  dead  --  but of the living 

 

2 TIMOTHY 2:7  consider what I say and  --THE  LORD  GIVE  THEE  UNDERSTANDING  IN  ALL  THINGS--

 

PROVERBS 8:14  counsel is mine and sound wisdom  --I  AM  UNDERSTANDING--  I  HAVE  STRENGTH --

 

GALATIANS 6: 7  be not deceived  GOD  is not mocked for whatsoever a man soweth --that shall he also reap--

--6:8-- for he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh resp corruption --- but he that soweth to the spirit shall of the spirit reap life everlasting 

 

PROVERBS 3:5  TRUST  IN  THE  LORD  WITH  --ALL--  THINE  HEART  AND  LEAN  NOT  UNTO  THINE  OWN  UNDERSTANDING

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[Wayne222]

   We walk by the spirit means the things we live by are spiritual and not flesh. Instead of angry we walk by peace. Instead of lust we walk by love. Instead of impatience we put the other person first. Instead of envy we rejoice for someone blessing. Instead of desiring fame and fortune we desire glory to God and Jesus. We are walking in the spirit. And we can only do this if we have received the Holy Spirit. Paul said seek the heavenly things. 

[Dennis1209]

It seems clear the apostle Paul states we are tri-part beings, as well as other biblical references. Why would there be confusion?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

As far as the capitalization of the human and Holy Spirit, yes, there are differences in upper and lower case in several translations, i.e.

⁵ For thei that ben aftir the fleisch, saueren tho thingis that ben of the fleisch; but thei that ben after the spirit, feelen tho thingis that ben of the spirit. For the prudence of fleisch is deth;^[1]

The original inerrant biblical texts were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Does that extend to the 300+ translations we now have? I think not; as you pointed out, there are significant and minor differences. Some omit part of the Gospel of Mark,

I conclude it concerns their interpretation(s) and the source material they were translating.

One I consider a big one is the difference of 100 years between the LXX and the Masoretic Texts—the longevity of Arphaxad through Peleg. I believe the LXX to be the correct rendering.

But anyway, there is some confusion about which spirit is addressed in various translations, and a good observation and point. Not everyone notices italics, capitalization, or meaning or pays attention to the Lord, LORD, spirit, Spirit, etc.

Another good topic Vine.

 

---

^[1] Wycliffe, J. (1850). The Holy Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments, with the Apocryphal Books: Later Version: Vols. I–IV (J. Forshall & F. Madden, Eds.; Ro 8:5). Oxford, at the University Press.

[Vine Abider]

15 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

It seems clear the apostle Paul states we are tri-part beings, as well as other biblical references. Why would there be confusion?

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

As far as the capitalization of the human and Holy Spirit, yes, there are differences in upper and lower case in several translations, i.e.

⁵ For thei that ben aftir the fleisch, saueren tho thingis that ben of the fleisch; but thei that ben after the spirit, feelen tho thingis that ben of the spirit. For the prudence of fleisch is deth;^[1]

The original inerrant biblical texts were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Does that extend to the 300+ translations we now have? I think not; as you pointed out, there are significant and minor differences. Some omit part of the Gospel of Mark,

I conclude it concerns their interpretation(s) and the source material they were translating.

One I consider a big one is the difference of 100 years between the LXX and the Masoretic Texts—the longevity of Arphaxad through Peleg. I believe the LXX to be the correct rendering.

But anyway, there is some confusion about which spirit is addressed in various translations, and a good observation and point. Not everyone notices italics, capitalization, or meaning or pays attention to the Lord, LORD, spirit, Spirit, etc.

Another good topic Vine.

 

---

^[1] Wycliffe, J. (1850). The Holy Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments, with the Apocryphal Books: Later Version: Vols. I–IV (J. Forshall & F. Madden, Eds.; Ro 8:5). Oxford, at the University Press.

Good observations!  I do wonder, because many - if not most - Christians I communicate with, don't seem to clearly realize that human's were made with a soul AND a spirit, but rather often confuse these and lump the two together.  Understanding that we have a spirit makes it easier to understand what regeneration is about as per John 3:6, "That which is born of Spirit is spirit."

The Lord establishes Himself in our innermost being, and then spreads out from there, into our mind, emotion & will.

[AnOrangeCat]

16 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Good observations!  I do wonder, because many - if not most - Christians I communicate with, don't seem to clearly realize that human's were made with a soul AND a spirit, but rather often confuse these and lump the two together.  Understanding that we have a spirit makes it easier to understand what regeneration is about as per John 3:6, "That which is born of Spirit is spirit."

I've noticed that too. I'm kind of curious as to where the conflation originated. Even outside of Christianity the words have come to be viewed in a very similar light. The term soul also has some elements these days that aren't really in the Bible, like the idea that people can sell their souls. It's pretty old and might have some pagan roots. Theophilius of Adana is one of the earliest instances of the thought popping up, and that one dates all the way back to the sixth century.

[Vine Abider]

58 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

I've noticed that too. I'm kind of curious as to where the conflation originated. Even outside of Christianity the words have come to be viewed in a very similar light. The term soul also has some elements these days that aren't really in the Bible, like the idea that people can sell their souls. It's pretty old and might have some pagan roots. Theophilius of Adana is one of the earliest instances of the thought popping up, and that one dates all the way back to the sixth century.

It is amusing/sad . . . like numerous movies that depict this notion of, "I sold my soul to the devil."  Of course, what is not realized is all people are already under the slavery to sin/death before they accept Christ.  Therefore it is a something of a misnomer to say that, since they are already under a death penalty.  Saying "I sold my soul to the devil" basically means nothing (accept in the person's mind).

[AnOrangeCat]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

It is amusing/sad . . . like numerous movies that depict this notion of, "I sold my soul to the devil."  Of course, what is not realized is all people are already under the slavery to sin/death before they accept Christ.  Therefore it is a something of a misnomer to say that, since they are already under a death penalty.  Saying "I sold my soul to the devil" basically means nothing (accept in the person's mind).

Agreed, and something I find sad is that a lot of young Christians these days get worked up into a panic over it, thinking that they somehow sold their souls by accident. Lot of paranoia surrounding that and fear of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Fear is pretty much all that it is, too.