"Global Warming" Oscillations?

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Still Alive said:

A warmer planet will cause the oceans to evaporate. It's pretty simple. Sure, there are subtle complications, but ultimately, when you increase the temperature where there is a body of water, the water will evaporate more.

And hence more severe storms, which is what we are now seeing on the Gulf coast.   Hurricanes run off moisture and heat.   Both of which are rising due to warming.

1 hour ago, Still Alive said:

Oh, and that can cause cloud cover, which will also have a cooling effect. It's a pretty well designed system.

Nature pretty much seeks the most efficient flow of things.    Constructal law, and so on.

[The Barbarian]

On 3/14/2024 at 8:57 PM, RV_Wizard said:

The point being made is that the climate change is just the latest fad to scare people into giving more wealth and power to a select few.

It's the observed reality.    The Earth is getting warmer, at pretty much the rate that was predicted thirty years ago, based on carbon dioxide emissions.

No point in denying what everyone can see.

 

 

[RV_Wizard]

3 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The Earth is getting warmer, at pretty much the rate that was predicted thirty years ago, based on carbon dioxide emissions.

Human activity contributes to about 1% of greenhouse gasses.  People only THINK they matter in the grand scheme of things.

[The Barbarian]

17 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Human activity contributes to about 1% of greenhouse gasses. 

Couple of errors there.  First is a knowledge issue: carbon dioxide is not the greatest contributor to warming, but humans substantially increase carbon dioxide.    Which matters, because carbon dioxide traps thermal energy at wavelengths other greenhouse gases do not trap as well.  

Second is a logic error.    Suppose you have to keep a vessel filled with water, but bad things will happen if you overfill it.   So you rig up a system that just matches evaporation with added water.    Then someone adds a system that adds 1% more water continuously.   

What happens?    Right.   Think.

[BeyondET]

A warmer atmosphere effects global wind patterns which can cause areas to be wetter others dryer. Certainly deserts aren't going anywhere.

[RV_Wizard]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

First is a knowledge issue: carbon dioxide is not the greatest contributor to warming, but humans substantially increase carbon dioxide. 

Were that the case, there would have been a substantial improvement in the air quality after WWII, because there were 50 million fewer people.  We are insignificant.  Human activity is a fly speck compared to natural forces.  We couldn't destroy the planet if we tried.  The end comes when the Creator says it comes, and that is likely to be sooner rather than later.  It may happen next week, or in the next hundred years.  Either way, it will be on God's time, not ours.

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

Suppose you have to keep a vessel filled with water, but bad things will happen if you overfill it. 

Who said it was bad?  Increasing temperatures would increase water vapor and subsequently combat droughts.  Rising seas might be needed to provide enough water when the earth's population tops 7 billion people.  For every negative, there is at least one positive.

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

Who said it was bad?

People living on the Gulf Coast, who have seen their insurance rates go out of sight.   Rancher on the Great Plains, who are struggling with droughts.    On the other hand, herders in sub-Saharan Africa are pleased, as the desert retreats and the area greens up.   Winners and losers.   

 

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

Rising seas might be needed to provide enough water when the earth's population tops 7 billion people. 

You can't drink seawater.   But even before the seas were rising, there would have been enough water, if it wasn't salty.

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

For every negative, there is at least one positive.

Well, people in the United States will be having more and more difficulties, but those herders in the Sahel will be happier.

 

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

Were that the case, there would have been a substantial improvement in the air quality after WWII, because there were 50 million fewer people. 

You've been misled about that.   Most of the carbon in the atmosphere is not from humans breathing.    We generate a lot more by operating machinery, manufacturing, fires, etc.

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

Human activity is a fly speck compared to natural forces.

Let's test that assumption.    Which produces more CO2, in a month, humans or a major volcanic eruption?    Show your work.

1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said:

We couldn't destroy the planet if we tried.

The planet will continue regardless.   Life will survive our effects.   We will almost certainly survive.   But it will be more interesting and challenging in many places.

 

[RV_Wizard]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

People living on the Gulf Coast, who have seen their insurance rates go out of sight. 

I wouldn't doubt that they are funding their own climate fear mongers to drive their profits.

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

Rancher on the Great Plains, who are struggling with droughts.  

Oh, please.  Every natural cyclical event is tied to man-caused climate change?  Ever hear of the Dust Bowl?  Droughts happen all the time in one part of the world or another.  Droughts and famine were prevalent in the Old Testament.

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

You can't drink seawater.  

Ever hear of desalination?  You absolutely can drink sea water.

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

Well, people in the United States will be having more and more difficulties,

Everyone blames capitalism but the biggest polluter is China.

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

We generate a lot more by operating machinery,

Our factories are the cleanest in the world.  A semi-truck driving through Houston or 26 other cities is purifying the air because the air coming out of the exhaust is cleaner than the intake air.  Lack of clean air won't kill you.  Lack of Jesus will destroy you.

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

Which produces more CO2, in a month, humans or a major volcanic eruption?

That entirely depends on the eruption.  Mt. St. Helens dropped the global temperature by a full degree.

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

We will almost certainly survive. 

No, we will surely die.  I believe the end will come soon; maybe not in my lifetime but certainly in my grandchildren's lifetime.  I believe we should do everything possible to keep our air and water clean.  I just don't think destroying America while our enemies befoul the world is the answer.

[The Barbarian]

People living on the Gulf Coast, who have seen their insurance rates go out of sight. 

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

I wouldn't doubt that they are funding their own climate fear mongers to drive their profits.

Comes down to losses.   And...

The latest report from DBRS Morningstar highlights the potential long-term consequences of a concerning trend in coastal properties, including the possibility of declining property values along the US coast if insurance coverage becomes inaccessible or too costly.

Property damage caused by tropical storms, particularly tropical cyclones like hurricanes, has been on the rise in the country, leading to significant insured losses since the early 1990s. This upward trend has raised concerns about the availability and affordability of insurance coverage. As the private insurance sector grapples with these increasing losses, there's a growing reliance on government programs, such as the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) and Florida's Citizens Property Insurance Corporation.

However, at present, this surge in catastrophe loss exposure does not have negative credit rating implications for the rated insurance companies, as they are effectively managing the associated risks.

https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/catastrophe/coastal-properties-at-risk-of-becoming-uninsurable--report-464532.aspx

Reality, again.    Can't get away from it.

Rancher on the Great Plains, who are struggling with droughts.  

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Oh, please.  Every natural cyclical event is tied to man-caused climate change? 

Turns out, warmer climate means less snowpack every winter, (snowline is now higher than it was before) and so less snowmelt and less water.    Not hard to figure out.

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Ever hear of desalination?

It's been used in places where water is desperately needed, like Saudi Arabia.   Not very viable for most places.    Lots of engineering studies on using solar desalinization.   Not economically feasible for now.

Well, people in the United States will be having more and more difficulties in the far West and the Gulf Coast.

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Everyone blames capitalism but the biggest polluter is China.

China is capitalistic.    Thought you knew.   But yes, it's a world issue.   What once nation does, involves the whole globe.

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Lack of clean air won't kill you. 

Wrong.   Lots of people die every year from just that.

https://ourworldindata.org/data-review-air-pollution-deaths

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Lack of Jesus will destroy you.

I don't think we have to choose either clean air or Jesus.

Which produces more CO2, in a month, humans or a major volcanic eruption?

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

That entirely depends on the eruption.

Wrong.   Turns out humans put put more CO2 in a month than any major eruption.

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Mt. St. Helens dropped the global temperature by a full degree.

That has nothing whatever to do with CO2.   Sulfur dioxide droplets in the air reflect infrared and temporarily cool the Earth after a major eruption.

The planet will continue regardless.   Life will survive our effects.   We will almost certainly survive.   But it will be more interesting and challenging in many places.

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

No, we will surely die.  I believe the end will come soon; maybe not in my lifetime but certainly in my grandchildren's lifetime. 

No one knows.   He doesn't tell us specifically to keep us from obsessing about it.   Live as you should, and you don't need to be obsessed with it.

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

I believe we should do everything possible to keep our air and water clean.  I just don't think destroying America while our enemies befoul the world is the answer.

Failing to do what we should, is why the climate is causing problems for us.   Blaming others, even when others are contributing to the problem, may make us feel better. 

But it won't do any good.