Fleeing from Jesus

[Tristen]

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

It's good to know scripture when there are people trying their very best to mislead you

It is not "good" to assume that anyone who disagrees with you is "trying their very best to mislead you".

That is how one becomes unteachable. 

2 Timothy 2:24-25
 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth

[farouk]

1 hour ago, Tristen said:

It is not "good" to assume that anyone who disagrees with you is "trying their very best to mislead you".

That is how one becomes unteachable. 

2 Timothy 2:24-25
 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth

@Tristen When it comes to lots of subjects, the fact that ppl may have different views is seemingly expected from Romans 14, where Christian liberty is strongly asserted (not on central points of doctrine about the Person and Work of Christ but broader personal convictions and preferences).

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, douggg said:

Jesus in Matthew 24:15-21 instructed them in Judaea to flee to mountains when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

The abomination of desolation is in Daniel 12:11-12.       Daniel 12, speaking about the time of the end, opens with...

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Michael in Revelation 12 stands up and with his angels casts Satan down to earth.   At that time, in the middle of the seven years - the Jews turn to Jesus in Revelation 12:10... delivered, saved.

Satan, having great wrath having but a time/times/half time left, will persecute the Jews for the time, times, half time of Daniel 7:25.    But God's judgment shall come down on Satan, the beast-king, and the false prophet and...

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus will be given the kingdom.    The Jews en masse turn to Jesus in the middle of the 7 years, in Revelation 12:10.

Romans 11:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The verses i quoted are from Mathew 8,not Mathew 24.

Mathew 8:11-12

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

¹² But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

Jesus says they shall be cast out of the kingdom.You type a lot and say a lot ,but you can't quote anything you say because it's not written.I will enlarge Jesus words so maybe you can see them.

 

 

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Tristen said:

It is not "good" to assume that anyone who disagrees with you is "trying their very best to mislead you".

That is how one becomes unteachable. 

2 Timothy 2:24-25
 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth

I don't see it that way.

The warning I posted is a valid warning to people who do not study.

 

2 Timothy 3:13

while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
 

This probably happens far more than you believe.

 

Edited January 3, 2024 by Shilohsfoal

[douggg]

22 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The verses i quoted are from Mathew 8,not Mathew 24.

I understand that.   But you took it out of context.    Jesus was impressed by the faith of the Roman soldier.  Faith he had not seen among the Jews of Israel that he was preaching to.    

What Jesus said in verses 11 and 12 applied to the Jews of that generation, who had no faith in what he was preaching to them  would miss out on the Kingdom of God.  

My post was to show how the Jews in Matthew 24, Daniel 12, Daniel 7, Romans 11, at the time of the end would be saved, turning to Jesus in Revelation 12:10 in the middle of the 7 years.

Them in Zechariah 14 who flee through the valley will be Jews, fleeing like their ancestors did from trouble.    The fleeing in Zechariah 14 will be Jews escaping from being hostages in verse 2.

 

  

Edited January 3, 2024 by douggg

[Shilohsfoal]

8 minutes ago, douggg said:

I understand that.   But you took it out of context.    Jesus was impressed by the faith of the Roman soldier.  Faith he had not seen among the Jews of Israel that he was preaching to.    

What Jesus said in verses 11 and 12, applied to the Jews of that generation who would miss out on the kingdom.   

My post was to show how the Jews in Matthew 24, Daniel 12, Daniel 7, Romans 11, at the time of the end would be saved, turning to Jesus in Revelation 12:10 in the middle of the 7 years.

Them in Zechariah 14 who flee through the valley will be Jews, fleeing like their ancestors did from trouble.    The fleeing in Zechariah 14 will be Jews escaping from being hostages in verse 2.

 

  

It does not apply to that generation .

It applies to the Jews who go into exile .They are cast out of the kingdom as Abraham ,Issac and Jacob inherit the promised land .

All your posts don't say all the Jews are saved.The only people who are saved are them in Christ.Not the Jews who kill the christians during the tribulation.

And them fleeing in zech 14 are not saints.If they were they would be with Christ. Insted they are fleeing from Christ.

They are fleeing to the mountains to hide in their caves where you believe they will be safe.

 

Revelation 6

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

 

Edited January 3, 2024 by Shilohsfoal

[douggg]

12 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

It does not apply to that generation .

That generation of Jerusalem rejected Jesus as their King of Israel.  

17 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

It applies to the Jews who go into exile .They are cast out of the kingdom as Abraham ,Issac and Jacob inherit the promised land .

No, it is not referring to the Jews going into exile.    The Jews of that generation who rejected Jesus will miss out on the eternal Kingdom of God.

 

22 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

All your posts don't say all the Jews are saved.The only people who are saved are them in Christ.Not the Jews who kill the christians during the tribulation.

I did not say that all Jews will be saved.    Them who turn to Jesus will be saved.    Jews will not be killing Christians during the great tribulation.

 

25 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

And them fleeing in zech 14 are not saints.If they were they would be with Christ. Insted they are fleeing from Christ.

The Jews who flee through the valley will have turned to Christ in the middle of the 7 years, Revelation 12:10.

Jesus will be standing on the Mt. Olives as it splits in half.    The Jews will be fleeing toward Jesus not away from Jesus.

[Shilohsfoal]

4 minutes ago, douggg said:

That generation of Jerusalem rejected Jesus as their King of Israel.  

No, it is not referring to the Jews going into exile.    The Jews of that generation who rejected Jesus will miss out on the eternal Kingdom of God.

 

I did not say that all Jews will be saved.    Them who turn to Jesus will be saved.    Jews will not be killing Christians during the great tribulation.

 

The Jews who flee through the valley will have turned to Christ in the middle of the 7 years, Revelation 12:10.

Jesus will be standing on the Mt. Olives as it splits in half.    The Jews will be fleeing toward Jesus not away from Jesus.

Abraham ,Issac and Jacob were not eating in Jerusalem 2000 years ago. That feast takes place when Jesus comes.

 

Mathew 8:11-12

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

¹² But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

There are plenty of people in Israel today who reject Jesus and there will be plenty of Jews in Israel who reject Christ at the time of his coming after they have killed about all the saints and have taken the mark of the beast.

Yes you've made it clear that you believe they will not be saved by faith but by sight.The fact that they are not with Jesus ,shows that they do not belong to him.

 

The saints are with the Lord.Them who are not with the Lord scatter abroad.

 

⁵ And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

[douggg]

4 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Yes you've made it clear that you believe they will not be saved by faith but by sight.The fact that they are not with Jesus ,shows that they do not belong to him.

No, I never said any such thing.   The Jews will be saved by faith in Jesus, not by their own works.

The Jews go through the great tribulation and turn to Jesus at the beginning of the great tribulation.    Differently, the saints returning with Jesus are them who take part in the rapture/resurrection event to heaven before the great tribulation begins.

The Jews fleeing through the valley in Zechariah 14 will be fleeing toward Jesus, not away from Jesus.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

13 minutes ago, douggg said:

No, I never said any such thing.   The Jews will be saved by faith in Jesus, not by their own works.

The Jews go through the great tribulation and turn to Jesus at the beginning of the great tribulation.    Differently, the saints returning with Jesus are them who take part in the rapture/resurrection event to heaven before the great tribulation begins.

The Jews fleeing through the valley in Zechariah 14 will be fleeing toward Jesus, not away from Jesus.

 

Here is the coming of Jesus when the kingdom.becomes his. This is when Abraham,Issac and Jacob sit down to the feast and the subjects of the kingdom are cast out.

Show me where the unbelieving  Jews come to Jesus during the wrath of God.

 

Revelation 11

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

¹⁶ And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

¹⁷ Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

¹⁸ And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

¹⁹ And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Edited January 3, 2024 by Shilohsfoal