SACREDWARRIOR Posted January 8 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 46 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/22/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8 TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!! The debate is vast among believers on the subject of a 3rd temple in Jerusalem. For the record, I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE WILL BE ONE.....nor do I believe any such structure for the purpose of sacrifice I.E TABERNACLE will be constructed.... Many if Not most believers are watching for this so called construct to be built basing their end times readiness on that event......However, DOES THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAY THERE WILL BE A TEMPLE? [Rev 11:1-2 ] 1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the TEMPLE OF GOD AND THE ALTER, and those who worship in it. 2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. One of the clearest passages indicating a temple, and to be certain, one that seems to indicate a third temples existence. during the 70th week. the structure described in the above passage, is a brick & mortar building...ruling out the TENT (tabernacle) theory so what explanation can there be? I believe that it is an illustration for John's benefit as He is writing the book of Revelation. However, if we look closely, some clear problems begin to unfold in this passage........TEMPLE OF GOD......IF THE JEWS ARE SUCCESSFUL in Building this Temple, to be used for ANIMAL SACRIFICE, can it be legitimately called TEMPLE OF GOD? when in fact it would be sacrilege for animal sacrifice to be instituted once again. the benefit would primarily exist to be a home base for the anti christ, not BELIEVERS OR JEWS.... yet in the passage above it seems to indicate a viable TEMPLE with the purpose of GODS dwelling place....so what is JOHN seeing? I believe He is simply seeing the Temple as it existed in HIS DAY...NOT a FUTURE rebuilt structure. I'll Admit I don't have all the answers...but I do know there will BE NO RIGHTEOUS PURPOSE for a third temple.... I will show later...how if this 3rd Temple is built, it must also be destroyed AGAIN..... THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted January 8 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8 After the 2nd Coming, Christ enters through the gate facing East, now closed. And the glory of the Lord filled the Temple. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted January 8 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.90 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted January 8 There seen to be some of the prophecies that would require the temple being reestablished for them to be fulfilled. I'm no expert on the Revelation, not even anything close to it, and as such cannot argue either for or against it (the Third Temple). What would be your scripturally based arguments against it? BTW, the laws concerning sacrifices are defined and given by God in the Old Testament so I see no problem with them being done in the Temple in accordance with God's laws about them by those who have not accepted Jesus sacrifice in place of them, a perfect sacrifice in place of imperfect animal sacrifices to pay the price of sin and free us of punishment for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted February 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,629 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11 (edited) On 1/8/2024 at 5:36 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said: TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!! The debate is vast among believers on the subject of a 3rd temple in Jerusalem. For the record, I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE WILL BE ONE.....nor do I believe any such structure for the purpose of sacrifice I.E TABERNACLE will be constructed.... I don't see how it's relevant what one believes concerning the facts of truth. It's like saying nothing at all. On 1/8/2024 at 5:36 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said: However, if we look closely, some clear problems begin to unfold in this passage........TEMPLE OF GOD......IF THE JEWS ARE SUCCESSFUL in Building this Temple, to be used for ANIMAL SACRIFICE, can it be legitimately called TEMPLE OF GOD? There are millions of temples built in God's name, all over the world. What makes a Jewish Temple built in God's name less legitimate than your small town corner Assembly of God, or any other building devoted to God? No one single building called a 'church' is a legitimate 'church'. They are all brick and mortar and glass and steel. God's church is a spiritual one, not one built of stone. The Church isn't the building, the Church is in the building. Well, optimistically anyway. On 1/8/2024 at 5:36 AM, SACREDWARRIOR said: yet in the passage above it seems to indicate a viable TEMPLE with the purpose of GODS dwelling place. The passage does not indicate it's a dwelling place of the Most High God. In any passage about the 3rd Temple we see it's a facade ostensibly dedicated to the Most High God but is in fact a set up, a trap to subjugate the Jews and usher in the reign of the one who blasphemes God and utters the self proclamation of god above all gods. Perhaps the Jews involved in the deception sincerely believe the 3rd Temple will be a legitimate Temple and the ritual and liturgy will be found acceptable in God's eyes, but that isn't the case. The 3rd Temple isn't about the worship of the Most High God, it's a ruse and show and the Jews will finally see how wrong they are, and how wrong they have been in past millennia. Edited February 11 by Diaste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted February 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, Diaste said: I don't see how it's relevant what one believes concerning the facts of truth. It's like saying nothing at all. There are millions of temples built in God's name, all over the world. What makes a Jewish Temple built in God's name less legitimate than your small town corner Assembly of God, or any other building devoted to God? No one single building called a 'church' is a legitimate 'church'. They are all brick and mortar and glass and steel. God's church is a spiritual one, not one built of stone. The Church isn't the building, the Church is in the building. Well, optimistically anyway. The passage does not indicate it's a dwelling place of the Most High God. In any passage about the 3rd Temple we see it's a facade ostensibly dedicated to the Most High God but is in fact a set up, a trap to subjugate the Jews and usher in the reign of the one who blasphemes God and utters the self proclamation of god above all gods. Perhaps the Jews involved in the deception sincerely believe the 3rd Temple will be a legitimate Temple and the ritual and liturgy will be found acceptable in God's eyes, but that isn't the case. The 3rd Temple isn't about the worship of the Most High God, it's a ruse and show and the Jews will finally see how wrong they are, and how wrong they have been in past millennia. 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. From everything I've read in Pauls letters,he never refers to the stone temple on the temple Mt being the temple of God.Also ,I wouldn't expect the king of the north to claim to be God.The word often translated to claim.means to point . The king of the north points out,or shows forth that he is God. Not that he says he is. For instance, Kinda like Trump saying he is the only one who can keep Israel safe.Everyone who knows the Lord ,knows he is the only one who can keep Israel safe.Yet here is Trump saying he is the only one who can . deut 28 7 The Lord shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways. 25 The Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. The king of the north may believe he can offer Israel peace and safety,but he can't deliver .Any man who says he will keep Israel safe is opposing God when God says he will cause Israel to be smitten before their enemies if they don't harken to his voice and observe his commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted February 11 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,038 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,454 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11 On 1/8/2024 at 1:36 PM, SACREDWARRIOR said: TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!! The debate is vast among believers on the subject of a 3rd temple in Jerusalem. For the record, I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE WILL BE ONE.....nor do I believe any such structure for the purpose of sacrifice I.E TABERNACLE will be constructed.... Many if Not most believers are watching for this so called construct to be built basing their end times readiness on that event......However, DOES THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAY THERE WILL BE A TEMPLE? [Rev 11:1-2 ] 1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the TEMPLE OF GOD AND THE ALTER, and those who worship in it. 2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. One of the clearest passages indicating a temple, and to be certain, one that seems to indicate a third temples existence. during the 70th week. the structure described in the above passage, is a brick & mortar building...ruling out the TENT (tabernacle) theory so what explanation can there be? I believe that it is an illustration for John's benefit as He is writing the book of Revelation. However, if we look closely, some clear problems begin to unfold in this passage........TEMPLE OF GOD......IF THE JEWS ARE SUCCESSFUL in Building this Temple, to be used for ANIMAL SACRIFICE, can it be legitimately called TEMPLE OF GOD? when in fact it would be sacrilege for animal sacrifice to be instituted once again. the benefit would primarily exist to be a home base for the anti christ, not BELIEVERS OR JEWS.... yet in the passage above it seems to indicate a viable TEMPLE with the purpose of GODS dwelling place....so what is JOHN seeing? I believe He is simply seeing the Temple as it existed in HIS DAY...NOT a FUTURE rebuilt structure. I'll Admit I don't have all the answers...but I do know there will BE NO RIGHTEOUS PURPOSE for a third temple.... I will show later...how if this 3rd Temple is built, it must also be destroyed AGAIN..... THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!!! I like your thinking. You have a good argument. But perhaps there is another way of looking at it. God is Creator and Owner of all things. He gives His things to created being to manage. The previous manager was an angel - Lucifer. He mismanaged God's things and God made a new manager - mankind. This manager also mismanaged the earth and the present state of affairs is due to man's corruptedness. But in all this, God still claims ownership and has left all things as an inheritance for Jesus. So, when our Lord Jesus says that Jerusalem is the "City of the Great King" (Matt.5:35), He has exclusive right to this city. And if, on this ground, a temple is built, in accordance with previous instructions, he could technically and legally claim that Temple for Himself. It could stand a hundred yards from the Al Aqsa and God would recognize it as quickly as He admits that the Jew who stands in New York Times Square is a Jew. Again, I agree with you that this Temple is defiled and polluted by the Beast. And I also agree that there is no word of its destruction. Or is there? In Revelation 11:13-19 there seems to be two earthquakes. The second is in connection with God's Temple in heaven. Could it be that God COMPETES with the third Temple for men to see if the Beast is God or not. In veres 13 something happens that causes men to go against the Beast and give the true God the glory. Could it be that the great destruction of the City includes BOTH the Temple and Al Aqsa? Just thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted February 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,119 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted February 13 To be biblically accurate, the Bible never actually prophesies that there will be a third temple constructed before the return of Christ. In the NT, the closest verse to this, which most people cite, is this: 2 Thes. 2:3 ...the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called a god or that is worshiped, so that he sits as a god in the "temple"/naos of God, showing himself that he is a god. Naos does not literally mean a temple, but rather, a sanctified place. As distinguished from heiron, which does signify a building. Naos, when used to mean a structure, only referred to the sanctuary itself, not its porch or walls or courts, etc. The corresponding word in Hebrew is miqdash. Again, the miqdash could be either a holy spot, or a constructed sanctuary (only). Which makes the following verse from Daniel significant: Daniel 9:17 “Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your miqdash, which is desolate." At the time Daniel prayed this prayer, the Jewish miqdash in Jerusalem was not a building, because the Babylonians had utterly destroyed it. So Daniel was referring to the place, not a structure. This all leads us to Jesus' seminal prophecy in Matthew: Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the (literally a) holy place/topo hagio” ... Jesus notably did not even use the term naos, but rather chose to mention only a "holy spot/location." Which leads me to conclude that there will not be structure there at all. Rather, He most likely is just saying that the abomination of desolation will take place on the site of the original Jewish sanctuary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.90 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, WilliamL said: To be biblically accurate, the Bible never actually prophesies that there will be a third temple constructed before the return of Christ. I've never really studied Revelation intensely since that is not my calling and I feel that God has other things for me to study and do, but my understanding is that the sacrifice it to begin again before his return, and if I'm right how would this be down without the Temple? And if I'm wrong, which I admit I could be, what is it in the Bible that is not understood leads me (and many others) to believe this will be the case? A sort of a FWIW question too: Where will the Antichrist be when he calls down fire from heaven and does this present a false miracle that imitates Elijah calling down fire to consume the offering on an altar (I think the altar was consumed as well, I'm lazy or I'd look it up). Not important enough to answer if it leads away from discussing your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted February 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,119 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, FJK said: I've never really studied Revelation intensely since that is not my calling and I feel that God has other things for me to study and do, but my understanding is that the sacrifice it to begin again before his return, and if I'm right how would this be down without the Temple? No where I know does the Bible say that "the sacrifice is to begin again before His return." 5 minutes ago, FJK said: And if I'm wrong, which I admit I could be, what is it in the Bible that is not understood leads me (and many others) to believe this will be the case? Traditions of men, passed off as facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.90 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13 15 minutes ago, WilliamL said: No where I know does the Bible say that "the sacrifice is to begin again before His return." Where doe Ezekiel's Temple fit in to the scheme of things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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