The Roman popes are the antichrist

[douggg]

16 minutes ago, abcdef said:

John 19:15, "...., We have no king but Caesar."

Caesar came in his own name, and the Jews of Jesus' time proclaimed him as king of the Jews.

The Jews did not proclaim Caesar to be the king of the Jews messiah.    The religious leaders were responding to Pilate, who presented Jesus before them, saying he was their king.   It was politically motivated response, and by the religious leaders who Jesus criticized.

John 19: 

14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

 

 

 

[abcdef]

On 1/8/2024 at 3:35 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

Can you quote one Pope who has said that Jesus is not he Christ?

1 John 2:22

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

Which Bible are you using?

[abcdef]

On 1/8/2024 at 9:47 PM, douggg said:

I am not saying that he is anointed by God.    I am saying that he will be anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet in a ceremony on the temple mount.

Where is the scripture that says that the Antichrist will be "anointed"?

Where does it say that "he will be anointed king of Israel"?

Where is it that he will be anointed "by the false prophet"? 

Where does it say that there will be "a ceremony on the temple mount"?

 

On 1/8/2024 at 9:47 PM, douggg said:

 

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Christ (greek adaptation for messiah) as used in the bible is the concept of being the King of Israel, king of the Jews, who will lead Israel and the world into the messianic age of peace and safety.

I agree, the "peace and safety" that was promised in the kingdom relationship with God, was the promise of a living relationship with God that could not be undone. Rom 8:39

The "peace and safety" that is in 1 Thess 5:3, is related to the material world and the wars revolving around the children of Israel, you might agree.

In v. 4 it says that "that day" should not over take you as a thief. 

What "that day" is he talking about? The day when the Antichrist destroys Jerusalem? Caesar destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. 

 

On 1/8/2024 at 9:47 PM, douggg said:

The Antichrist will be a false messiah and will be start a false messianic age. 

Paul is writing that the people should be aware of the coming 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. It was only 20 ish years away. It was predicted by Jesus and meant to warn the Christians of the impending military actions of Rome.

The "peace and safety" that Paul may have been referring to was when the Roman army withdrew for a period and then returned to surround the city full of Passover celebrations. When the Roman armies withdrew it was "peace and safety", when they returned it was sudden travail.

 

 

On 1/8/2024 at 9:47 PM, douggg said:

  Which will account for the world saying peace and safety in 1Thessalonians5:

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The time period of the "peace and safety" is something that is not specific in this passage. 

Can you produce a scripture that is specific as to the length of this time period of "peace and safety"?

 

[abcdef]

On 1/8/2024 at 9:57 PM, douggg said:

The Jews did not proclaim Caesar to be the king of the Jews messiah. 

What scripture says that the Antichrist claims to be the Messiah?

 

On 1/8/2024 at 9:57 PM, douggg said:

   The religious leaders were responding to Pilate, who presented Jesus before them, saying he was their king.   It was politically motivated response, and by the religious leaders who Jesus criticized.

The religious leaders proclaimed to Rome that Caesar was their king. They were the official leaders of Israel. It was as if the government, who represented the people, pledged their allegiance to Caesar. They spoke for the whole nation. 

 

On 1/8/2024 at 9:57 PM, douggg said:

John 19: 

14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Caesar is still with us today as the bishop of Rome. 

[douggg]

5 hours ago, abcdef said:

The "peace and safety" that is in 1 Thess 5:3, is related to the material world and the wars revolving around the children of Israel, you might agree.

In v. 4 it says that "that day" should not over take you as a thief. 

What "that day" is he talking about? The day when the Antichrist destroys Jerusalem? Caesar destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. 

That is talking about the Day of the Lord which begins with God's wrath.    In verses 9-11 is the rapture.   Christians are not appointed to wrath.

Jesus gave the parable of the fig tree that we may know the times and season and not be in the dark.   

1Thessalonians5:

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

 

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

The peace and safety of the false messianic age of the Antichrist of 1Thessalonians5:3 will be shattered when he goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood.  2Thessalonians2:4.

The rapture must happen before then.    Anytime between now and then.   Our time in this world in these corruptible bodies is almost over.     We are going to be so happy.

 

 

 

Matthew 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

In heaven, where we will be among the holy angels who rejoice each time a soul is saved.   It's going to be a happy, happy day.

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2024 by douggg

[douggg]

7 hours ago, abcdef said:

The time period of the "peace and safety" is something that is not specific in this passage. 

Can you produce a scripture that is specific as to the length of this time period of "peace and safety"?

Yes, I can produce scriptural based rationale of how long will be the time period of false "peace and safety.      It is my educated guess of around 3 years.   I will explain...

"peace and safety"

What will end it will be when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood, in 2Thessalonians2:4.   Revealing himself to be the man of sin.

In Ezekiel 28:1-10, God has the revealed man of sin assassinated for his audacious act.  The mortally wounded head (the heads are kings) of Revelation 13:1-3.  

In Isaiah 14:18-20, God then returns his soul to his lifeless body.   The strong delusion God sends in 2Thessalonians2:11 on them who believe the big lie - that the Antichrist achieved God-hood.

The unsaved world will be dumbfounded when the slain man of sin sits up in his casket, back alive.

Coming back to life, the mortal wound on the head in Revelation 13:1-3 is healed, and the person becomes the beast.

The false prophet then has the people of the world make a statue image of the beast-king and places it on the temple mount - the abomination of desolation.

According to Daniel 12:11, setting up of the abomination of desolation will be 1335 days before Jesus returns (on day 2520 of the 7 years).   So the AoD will be setup on day 1185 of the timeline.   

Given all of the events leading up to day 1185, i.e. the assassination, the coming back to life, the making of the statue image - my educated guess is that the peace and safety will end around 3 years into the 7 years.

3 years x 360 days/year = 1080.    

Peace and safety ending around day 1080 on the timeline.    That allows for 105 days thereabouts for the assassination, the coming back to life, the making of the statue image, and it set up.   105 days i.e around 3 months.

The end of the false peace and safety on day 1080- then around 3 months later, the great tribulation will begin, on day 1185, when the AoD is setup on the temple mount.

-----------------------------------

btw, all of the above in my response is not something I just came up with, put together, soley to respond to your question.    I have contemplated about that same issue many, many years.

Edited January 10, 2024 by douggg

[Shilohsfoal]

7 hours ago, abcdef said:

Which Bible are you using?

They all say the same thing about antichrist .

 

 

1 John 2:22

New International Version Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. New Living Translation And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist. English Standard Version Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. Berean Standard Bible Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. Berean Literal Bible Who is the liar, except the one denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one denying the Father and the Son. King James Bible Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. New King James Version Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. New American Standard Bible Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. NASB 1995 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. NASB 1977 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Legacy Standard Bible Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Amplified Bible Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed)? This is the antichrist [the enemy and antagonist of Christ], the one who denies and consistently refuses to acknowledge the Father and the Son. Christian Standard Bible Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son. Holman Christian Standard Bible Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son. American Standard Version Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son. Aramaic Bible in Plain English Who is a liar but whoever denies that Yeshua is The Messiah? Such a person is a false messiah. He who denies The Father denies also the Son. Contemporary English Version And a liar is anyone who says Jesus isn't truly Christ. Anyone who says this is an enemy of Christ and rejects both the Father and the Son. Douay-Rheims Bible Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son. English Revised Version Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son. GOD'S WORD® Translation Who is a liar? Who else but the person who rejects Jesus as the Messiah? The person who rejects the Father and the Son is an antichrist. Good News Translation Who, then, is the liar? It is those who say that Jesus is not the Messiah. Such people are the Enemy of Christ--they reject both the Father and the Son. International Standard Version Who is a liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? The person who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist. Literal Standard Version Who is the liar, except he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the antichrist who is denying the Father and the Son; Majority Standard Bible Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. New American Bible Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist. NET Bible Who is the liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the antichrist: the person who denies the Father and the Son. New Revised Standard Version Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. New Heart English Bible Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. Webster's Bible Translation Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Weymouth New Testament Who is a liar compared with him who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He who disowns the Father and the Son is the anti-Christ. World English Bible Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. Young's Literal Translation Who is the liar, except he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? this one is the antichrist who is denying the Father and the Son;

 

 

Edited January 10, 2024 by Shilohsfoal

[douggg]

47 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

They all say the same thing about antichrist .

1 John 2:22

New International Version Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. New Living Translation And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist. English Standard Version Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. Berean Standard Bible Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. Berean Literal Bible Who is the liar, except the one denying that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one denying the Father and the Son. King James Bible Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. New King James Version Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. New American Standard Bible Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. NASB 1995 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. NASB 1977 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Legacy Standard Bible Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Amplified Bible Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed)? This is the antichrist [the enemy and antagonist of Christ], the one who denies and consistently refuses to acknowledge the Father and the Son. Christian Standard Bible Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son. Holman Christian Standard Bible Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son. American Standard Version Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son. Aramaic Bible in Plain English Who is a liar but whoever denies that Yeshua is The Messiah? Such a person is a false messiah. He who denies The Father denies also the Son. Contemporary English Version And a liar is anyone who says Jesus isn't truly Christ. Anyone who says this is an enemy of Christ and rejects both the Father and the Son. Douay-Rheims Bible Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son. English Revised Version Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son. GOD'S WORD® Translation Who is a liar? Who else but the person who rejects Jesus as the Messiah? The person who rejects the Father and the Son is an antichrist. Good News Translation Who, then, is the liar? It is those who say that Jesus is not the Messiah. Such people are the Enemy of Christ--they reject both the Father and the Son. International Standard Version Who is a liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? The person who denies the Father and the Son is an antichrist. Literal Standard Version Who is the liar, except he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the antichrist who is denying the Father and the Son; Majority Standard Bible Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. New American Bible Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist. NET Bible Who is the liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the antichrist: the person who denies the Father and the Son. New Revised Standard Version Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. New Heart English Bible Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. Webster's Bible Translation Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Weymouth New Testament Who is a liar compared with him who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He who disowns the Father and the Son is the anti-Christ. World English Bible Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. Young's Literal Translation Who is the liar, except he who is denying that Jesus is the Christ? this one is the antichrist who is denying the Father and the Son;

 

There is a big difference between those translations.   

----------------------------------------------------

He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.  kjv

Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. NIV

---------------------------------------------------------

Those two versions gives the readers two different impressions.   

The kjv version describes the nature of someone who denies the Father and the Son, as being antichrist.   i.e like the coming antichrist person.

Differently,

The NIV version describes persons denying the Father and the Son, as being "the" antichrist themselves.

Edited January 10, 2024 by douggg

[Shilohsfoal]

27 minutes ago, douggg said:

There is a big difference between those translations.   

----------------------------------------------------

He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.  kjv

Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. NIV

---------------------------------------------------------

Those two versions gives the readers two different impressions.   

The kjv version describes the nature of someone who denies the Father and the Son, as being antichrist.   i.e like the coming antichrist person.

Differently,

The NIV version describes persons denying the Father and the Son, as being "the" antichrist themselves.

John said there are many antichrists and there are.Caiaphas was probably the first antichrist to deny Jesus is the Christ and the subjects of Judaism itself are antichrist denying Jesus is the Christ.The state of Israel was founded for people who deny Jesus is the Christ and for many years a Jew who did not deny Jesus could not become a citizen.From what I've read it's still very hard for a messianic Jew to become a citizen .Much harder than a jew  who denies Jesus.

[douggg]

2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

John said there are many antichrists and there are

John called them antichrists in contrasting similitude that we are called Christians.    We are ourselves are not Christ, but acknowledge the Father and Son as Christ taught.

The many antichrists, who are not themselves the Antichrist, deny the Father and Son just as the coming Antichrist will do.

1Joh2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2024 by douggg