The Millennium.

[Dennis1209]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

Glad you could comment here. Now I do agree with you that the Kingdom of heaven and Kingdom of God are not interchangeable. And I agree with you description for each except where we`ll be.

And yes, I do agree that there is a partial restoration in the millennium.

Now, Rev. 21: 2 is in the new heavens and new earth not the millennium. Also notice that the tabernacle of God comes down OUT of heaven FROM God.

I`m really scratching my head to get around your thought of `heaven on earth.` Do you mean that the third heaven and the universal realm with sun and moon and stars etc will all come onto the earth? The mind boggles. 

I suppose it depends on how we look at it. As a noun, there are three heavens identified.

• Where the clouds are, and the birds fly, our atmosphere.
• Where the celestial bodies are, the universe.
• Where our heavenly Father and heavenly host reside, Christ is at the Father's right hand in heaven.

I believe when we die, we are immediately in the presence of our Lord and Savior (in the 3^rd heaven). I think the paradise side of Hades (Abraham’s bosom) was emptied after the resurrection.

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8)

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4:17)

The kingdom of heaven will be on Earth. To have a kingdom, you need a king, King Jesus, and a place, the kingdom of heaven. I surmise our eternal dwelling place is the new Jerusalem on Earth. Christ will reign during the millennium and entering eternity with the new heavens and new Earth.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17) [emphasis added]

We will be part of the armies of heaven returning to Earth with the Lord at the 2^nd advent.

I look at this as wherever God (Jesus) is physically ruling and reigning from is heaven; heaven will also be on Earth. Or, we could also call it paradise on Earth. That is how I look at heaven coming to Earth.

Perhaps my thought process is not mainstream.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

15 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Thank you for your comments. However, you have just picked out some scriptures that are in different time zones and also for different groups. 

1 Cor. 6: 3 for the Body of Christ from the third heaven in the trib.

Obadiah for Israel in the millennium.

Gen. for Adam & Eve.

Rev. for the people on the earth - the nations on the new earth.

 1 Corinthians 6:2-3

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?
and if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we will judge angels?

"from the third heaven in the tribulation" Where are you getting that from?
The context is clearly judgement, worldwide, and angels.

Obadiah's "time zone" is  'For the day of the Lord is near'  Obadiah 1:15 
the day of the Lord, when the millennium begins.
And Obadiah 1:21 says "deliverers shall come up... to judge"

 

To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me on my throne
Revelation 3:21

We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds
to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17

Behold the Lord comes with 10,000's of His saints to do doom upon all flesh
Jude 1:14-15

And the armies in the sky followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen,
white and clean.
Revelation 19:14  [Rev 19:7-8]

And I saw thrones, and they ^ sat upon them,
and judgement was given unto them : and ..
Revelation 20:4

 

 

 

[FJK]

Here's a question that occurs to me as I read this:  Jesus said that in his fathers house there are many rooms (mansions) in which will eventually reside, so in which heaven does the Fathers house reside?

[AdHoc]

On 1/24/2024 at 12:56 AM, Marilyn C said:

 

1. Do you see the Body of Christ on earth in the millennium? (Scriptures please)

2. Do you see `Edenic` conditions for the millennium? (Scriptures please)

I support your quiz fully, but your questions are somewhat loaded. I could, for instance, ask, do men rule from Mars? If not, scriptures please? The poster will not be able to find scriptures and the implication then is men rule from Mars? But, you have asked what you asked so here goes;

1. Yes. (a) The Lord commanded men to eat from all the Trees in Eden save one. That is, God's purpose with man was to be prsent on earth. At no time did He, or was forced, to change His plan. When man disobeyed (b) he was given the task of tilling the earth. There is no indication that he will be removed from that task. (c) God's council was that man be fruitful, multiply and fill or replenish the earth. God's council stands untouched and unchanged. (d) Psalm 8 gives the domain of man's ruling the earth with its cattle. This has never been modified or cancelled. (e) Throughout the Bible and history, kings reigned from a Citadel within their domain. A king missing from his domain is either exiled, banished or ruling with a proxy. To wield authority to build the Church, Christ sat in His Father's Throne. But to judge the Nations He receives "HIS throne of glory" and it is placed where, "ALL Nations" are - the earth (Matthew 25:31-46) (f) In Genesis 1:26-28 God gave rule of the earth and its immediate environs to man. Since that time this plan was never rescinded. No man has ruled from heaven. Jesus will COME to subdue and rule (1st Cor.15:23-26).

There are no scriptures that say that our Lord Jesus will rule from heaven during the Millennium. The thought of this is foreign to the whole Bible.

2. No. Edenic conditions will not return.
(a) The Lake of Fire will be present. The torment will rise up like smoke, day and night
(b) Christ rules with a rod of iron. This will include the death penalty
(c) There will be winter and summer. In Eden, because of the "waters above" the climate on earth would have been sub-tropical
(d) In Eden there was a serpent. In the Millennium he will be in the Abyss
(e) In Eden there was no death. In the Millennium there will be much death - especially at the end (Magog)
(f) In Eden man did not have to work to feed himself. In the Millennium there will be planting and harvest
(g) In Eden mankind was naked. Not so in the Millennium
(h) In Eden was the Tree of Life. In the Millennium not all may "freely eat"

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, FJK said:

Here's a question that occurs to me as I read this:  Jesus said that in his fathers house there are many rooms (mansions) in which will eventually reside, so in which heaven does the Fathers house reside?

The Father's House is never heaven. It was severally:
The Tabernacle of the wilderness
Solomon's Temple
Zerubbabel's Temple
Christ's Body
The Church

One could say that God dwells in heaven, but heaven is never called the Father's House. Ephesians 4 gives God's Throne "above all heavens". John 14 prophesies that our Lord Jesus would GO - then prepare a place for His disciples - and return - "that the disciples may be (future tense) where He (Jesus) was already (present tense). That is, Jesus was somewhere ALREADY and He wished for His disciples to be there too at a future date.

1... I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
...
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake (Jn 14:1–11).

And this Jesus did. He went to His death because the hindrance to His disciples was sin and sins. Then He rose from the dead and told Mary to tell the disciples that He was going to the Father, but had not yet been (Jn.20:17). That night He had been because they could touch Him. Then, by breathing the Holy Spirit into His disciples they were where Jesus was before - IN the father and the father IN them - and in this manner they became the House of God.

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I suppose it depends on how we look at it. As a noun, there are three heavens identified.

• Where the clouds are, and the birds fly, our atmosphere.
• Where the celestial bodies are, the universe.
• Where our heavenly Father and heavenly host reside, Christ is at the Father's right hand in heaven.

I believe when we die, we are immediately in the presence of our Lord and Savior (in the 3^rd heaven). I think the paradise side of Hades (Abraham’s bosom) was emptied after the resurrection.

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8)

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4:17)

The kingdom of heaven will be on Earth. To have a kingdom, you need a king, King Jesus, and a place, the kingdom of heaven. I surmise our eternal dwelling place is the new Jerusalem on Earth. Christ will reign during the millennium and entering eternity with the new heavens and new Earth.

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17) [emphasis added]

We will be part of the armies of heaven returning to Earth with the Lord at the 2^nd advent.

I look at this as wherever God (Jesus) is physically ruling and reigning from is heaven; heaven will also be on Earth. Or, we could also call it paradise on Earth. That is how I look at heaven coming to Earth.

Perhaps my thought process is not mainstream.

Hi Dennis,

I agree with you regarding the three heavens identified in scripture and that we`ll go to be in the third heaven when die, the General Assembly. (Heb. 12: 23)

Also agree that the kingdom/rulership of heaven will be on the earth. It will be the Lord ruling from His exalted throne in the highest (Eph. 1: 20 & 21) through Israel. A man named David will be Israel`s king in the millennium. (Ez. 37: 24   Jer. 30: 9) So, there will not be two kings on the earth ruling. Jesus will be ruling from the highest, and the man named David ruling on the earth.

Now which scripture/s do you see tell us that the Body of Christ are the army that comes with Jesus at the end of the trib?

As to the New Jerusalem - If as you say the NJ is on the earth, what scripture tells us that? Also, how can all the people of the earth walk in its light if it is on the earth?

Oh, so you are seeing `heaven/paradise` as an adjective describing how it will be. Thank you for that clarification.

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

 1 Corinthians 6:2-3

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?
and if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we will judge angels?

"from the third heaven in the tribulation" Where are you getting that from?
The context is clearly judgement, worldwide, and angels.

Obadiah's "time zone" is  'For the day of the Lord is near'  Obadiah 1:15 
the day of the Lord, when the millennium begins.
And Obadiah 1:21 says "deliverers shall come up... to judge"

 

To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me on my throne
Revelation 3:21

We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds
to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17

Behold the Lord comes with 10,000's of His saints to do doom upon all flesh
Jude 1:14-15

And the armies in the sky followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen,
white and clean.
Revelation 19:14  [Rev 19:7-8]

And I saw thrones, and they ^ sat upon them,
and judgement was given unto them : and ..
Revelation 20:4

 

 

 

Hi DS,

Thank you for your comments.

In the middle of the trib. Satan and his fallen angels are cast out of the Universal realm. That is by the Lord`s angels who have His word of authority. We are the court that agrees with that judgment. Then when the angel declares the fall of Babylon (twice - religious and economic) it is also because the Lord and His Body declare it so. 

`Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are your judgments.` (Rev. 16: 7)

Those judgments are from the highest seat of authority and power in all of God`s great kingdom - the Lord Jesus Christ`s own throne. (Rev. 3: 21   4: 2)

The Day of the Lord (period of Time not the specific day of the Lord) starts when the northern army comes down to attack Israel. (Joel 1 & 2) 

Jude 14 - 15 refers to `Gk. hagios` `holy ones.` And they can be angels or saints. Thus we need more clarification from scripture. Can you give more scriptures to show which?

HOLY ONES.

 

Greek - Hagios,   

`Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousand of His `HOLY ONES,` (hagios). (Jude 14)

 

Hebrew - Quodos.

`The Lord came from Sinai, and dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, and came with ten thousands of  HOLY ONES,`quodos,`  literally myriads of holiness. `  (Deut. 33: 2)

 

Ps. 68 tells us who these Holy Ones are -

`The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of thousands; the Lord is among them as in Sinai, in the Holy place.` (Ps. 68: 17)

 

Thus we see that Enoch was referring to God`s myriads of holy angels.  

 

 

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, FJK said:

Here's a question that occurs to me as I read this:  Jesus said that in his fathers house there are many rooms (mansions) in which will eventually reside, so in which heaven does the Fathers house reside?

Hi FJK,

Good question. I personally see the Father`s house with many `dwellings` as referring to His whole Kingdom - each of the three realms.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I support your quiz fully, but your questions are somewhat loaded. I could, for instance, ask, do men rule from Mars? If not, scriptures please? The poster will not be able to find scriptures and the implication then is men rule from Mars? But, you have asked what you asked so here goes;

1. Yes. (a) The Lord commanded men to eat from all the Trees in Eden save one. That is, God's purpose with man was to be prsent on earth. At no time did He, or was forced, to change His plan. When man disobeyed (b) he was given the task of tilling the earth. There is no indication that he will be removed from that task. (c) God's council was that man be fruitful, multiply and fill or replenish the earth. God's council stands untouched and unchanged. (d) Psalm 8 gives the domain of man's ruling the earth with its cattle. This has never been modified or cancelled. (e) Throughout the Bible and history, kings reigned from a Citadel within their domain. A king missing from his domain is either exiled, banished or ruling with a proxy. To wield authority to build the Church, Christ sat in His Father's Throne. But to judge the Nations He receives "HIS throne of glory" and it is placed where, "ALL Nations" are - the earth (Matthew 25:31-46) (f) In Genesis 1:26-28 God gave rule of the earth and its immediate environs to man. Since that time this plan was never rescinded. No man has ruled from heaven. Jesus will COME to subdue and rule (1st Cor.15:23-26).

There are no scriptures that say that our Lord Jesus will rule from heaven during the Millennium. The thought of this is foreign to the whole Bible.

2. No. Edenic conditions will not return.
(a) The Lake of Fire will be present. The torment will rise up like smoke, day and night
(b) Christ rules with a rod of iron. This will include the death penalty
(c) There will be winter and summer. In Eden, because of the "waters above" the climate on earth would have been sub-tropical
(d) In Eden there was a serpent. In the Millennium he will be in the Abyss
(e) In Eden there was no death. In the Millennium there will be much death - especially at the end (Magog)
(f) In Eden man did not have to work to feed himself. In the Millennium there will be planting and harvest
(g) In Eden mankind was naked. Not so in the Millennium
(h) In Eden was the Tree of Life. In the Millennium not all may "freely eat"

Hi Ad Hoc,

yes it can seem loaded for I was replying to Dennis from another thread so as to not get it off topic. Thank you for your detailed comments.

As to God`s purpose for man on earth, I agree however, that is not the extent of all God`s purposes. And we see God unfolds these throughout His word.

The Lord Jesus Christ as the glorified Son of Man and Son of God, has been highly exalted to the highest place in all of God`s great kingdom. The Father -

`seated him at His right hand in the heavenly places, FAR ABOVE all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

And He put all things under His feet,...` (Eph. 1: 20 - 22)

 

I agree that the millennium will not be as in Eden. 

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Dennis,

I agree with you regarding the three heavens identified in scripture and that we`ll go to be in the third heaven when die, the General Assembly. (Heb. 12: 23)

Also agree that the kingdom/rulership of heaven will be on the earth. It will be the Lord ruling from His exalted throne in the highest (Eph. 1: 20 & 21) through Israel. A man named David will be Israel`s king in the millennium. (Ez. 37: 24   Jer. 30: 9) So, there will not be two kings on the earth ruling. Jesus will be ruling from the highest, and the man named David ruling on the earth.

Now which scripture/s do you see tell us that the Body of Christ are the army that comes with Jesus at the end of the trib?

As to the New Jerusalem - If as you say the NJ is on the earth, what scripture tells us that? Also, how can all the people of the earth walk in its light if it is on the earth?

Oh, so you are seeing `heaven/paradise` as an adjective describing how it will be. Thank you for that clarification.

I hope I do not sound like I am preaching I am correct. It is only my current thoughts and opinions.

I agree King David will be 2^nd in command. I have no doubt there will be a government and hierarchy.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Revelation 19:14)

Armies, plural. I surmise we being in Heaven from the Resurrection/Rapture until Christ’s 2^nd coming, we are part of the heavenly host (Army), along with all the heavenly host (angels). I suspect as Christian soldiers we will accompany Jesus at His return. I suspect we will not return to Heaven, but stay on Earth, as it will be our eternal home.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Revelation 21:2) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (Revelation 21:3) [emphasis mine]

The new Jerusalem is coming “down” from Heaven, apparently for Jesus’s bride as the imagery suggests. Verse three strongly suggests where, where men are, the Earth.

As I alluded to before, I think much of the description may only apply to the area of the new Jerusalem.

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, (Revelation 21:10)

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 65:25) [emphasis mine]

I get the impression the holy mountain is a small geographical area, maybe like the Garden of Eden was to the district and borders of Eden proper.

I have many questions concerning the precise location of the new Jerusalem. Will it be in a geocentric orbit because of its size and weight? Will it be physically touching the earth? There will be mortals on the Earth at this time also. It makes more sense that the NJ will be settled on the ground for entrance I would think.

The NJ is 1,400-1,500 miles high, what about oxygen, gravity, etc? With the new Earth's atmosphere be greatly expanded?