What About The Palestinians ?

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

This thread is getting seriously derailed. If you want to discuss the Messiah, Torah and Judaism I suggest splitting into a new thread.

Shalom, Slibhin.

Why? Contrary to opinion, we don't HATE the Palestinian people! We only HATE their cause called "Hamas," which stands for "Ḥarakat al-Muqāwama al-Islāmiyya, the ‘Islamic Resistance Movement’." So, when they have formed massive forces against Israel, the organization must be eliminated. We'd prefer that could be done peacefully, but radical (root) terrorism and attacks upon the Jews cannot be allowed to continue.

Roots must be uprooted, and that is a process that disturbs the soil, and may involve losing some of the plants of a crop for the sake of saving the entire crop. We want to save as many of the innocents as possible, but the die-hard zealots of Hamas may have to go first. Some are so Jew-hating that they cannot be reasoned with!

If the Messiah were to return (or as you might believe, come for the first time), would He do less?

[Gabriel80]

 

@Starise mentioned 'trust in reporting'.  Who can we trust to get truthful information?

I believe we can trust NO ONE.  Not Israel, Not Hamas.  Certainly not the media in the US or around the world.

Fog of War always accompanies conflict between nations.  This sleight of hand is a weapon intentionally wielded by both sides of a war. 

 

A thought of mine-

Why not surrender?  Submit? (Hamas.)

That would be a sure way to:

A.) Stop the killing/ maiming/ starving of innocents 

B.) Gather international support for the claim of persecution or violations of war.

C.) In place of Hamas, other Palestinians should be able to negotiate "terms" for the surrender... Israel would be almost forced to accept them at this point.  

From my vantage, no one (globally speaking) is interested in seeking this currently.  Has anyone heard of that? I could be wrong here.

All I have heard is "cease fire" this and "genocide" that.  Those are NOT solutions to ending the war.  It appears that the world is not serious about anything but death and destruction and finger pointing. That is not surprising.

It can only be said that Hamas has high disregard for their own peoples.  And it can be said that Israel's government AGREES with Hamas regarding their animosity toward the Palestinians.

It's obvious that Hamas is NOT waging a war with the intent of winning... so why?  Nor was their opening salvo a strategy for victory.  Why would they do this to their people to say nothing of the injury to Israel last October. 

Why not submit? Surrender.  Hamas has control of that option. They can't control Israel but they can control their own actions.

 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, Gabriel80 said:

 

 

Why not submit? Surrender.  Hamas has control of that option. They can't control Israel but they can control their own actions.

 

 

 

Hi Gabriel,

Arafat worked it out well. It`s called deceit. He called the Arabs in Gaza and West bank `Palestinians` as though that is a nation. Then, he told his followers that always `lie, lie, lie.` The world will always support the underdog and that is why he kept his people poor. They had millions given to them, but they never helped their people. 

Also, no matter the cost even to their own people, the demonic hatred of Israel drives them to get rid of Israel. 

[Retrobyter]

16 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Firstly, Hamas isn't their cause and I do not respect people who refuse to differentiate.

Shalom, Slibhin.

Well, what would YOU prefer to call it? It IS their cause! Hamas is NOT the same
as the Palestinians who dwell in Gaza! They ARE two separate peoples! The innocents don't normally live and die by the choices that Hamas makes, except when Hamas USES them as human shields! I really DON'T know what is setting you off about this!

16 hours ago, Slibhin said:

It's easier to kill people when you think of them as plants, isn't it?

Not if you come from a family of farmers, no! Not when one's family's income and livelihood depends on the next harvest!

16 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Secondly... yes he would do it differently. The messiah is a bringer of peace, not death. He will bring peace, the world will know G-d and the Torah will be written in their hearts, then the world will know war no longer. That's where "swords into plowshares" comes from. This is a core tenet of Judaism and Messianic prophecy, as it was even in ancient times. It does not say everyone will be smitten except for a small group of people. 

Are you so sure?

Isaiah 63:1-6 (KJV)

1 "Who [is] this that cometh from Edom (מֵאֱדוֹם), with dyed garments from Bozrah (מִבָּצְרָה)? this [that is] glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength?"

"I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save (רַב לְהוֹשִׁיעַ׃)."

2 "Wherefore [art thou] red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?"

3 "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people [there was] none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. 4 For THE DAY OF VENGEANCE [is] in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. 5 And I looked, and [there was] none to help; and I wondered that [there was] none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. 6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth!"

If there's one thing we've learned here in the United States, it's that PEACE COMES WITH A PRICE! Yes, the Messiah will bring peace, but not without MAKING that peace possible!

Edited March 1 by Retrobyter
to add a thought

[Starise]

16 hours ago, Gabriel80 said:

 

@Starise mentioned 'trust in reporting'.  Who can we trust to get truthful information?

I believe we can trust NO ONE.  Not Israel, Not Hamas.  Certainly not the media in the US or around the world.

Fog of War always accompanies conflict between nations.  This sleight of hand is a weapon intentionally wielded by both sides of a war. 

 

A thought of mine-

Why not surrender?  Submit? (Hamas.)

That would be a sure way to:

A.) Stop the killing/ maiming/ starving of innocents 

B.) Gather international support for the claim of persecution or violations of war.

C.) In place of Hamas, other Palestinians should be able to negotiate "terms" for the surrender... Israel would be almost forced to accept them at this point.  

From my vantage, no one (globally speaking) is interested in seeking this currently.  Has anyone heard of that? I could be wrong here.

All I have heard is "cease fire" this and "genocide" that.  Those are NOT solutions to ending the war.  It appears that the world is not serious about anything but death and destruction and finger pointing. That is not surprising.

It can only be said that Hamas has high disregard for their own peoples.  And it can be said that Israel's government AGREES with Hamas regarding their animosity toward the Palestinians.

It's obvious that Hamas is NOT waging a war with the intent of winning... so why?  Nor was their opening salvo a strategy for victory.  Why would they do this to their people to say nothing of the injury to Israel last October. 

Why not submit? Surrender.  Hamas has control of that option. They can't control Israel but they can control their own actions.

 

 

 

In pre US history there were groups of bandits who were against the British militia and they had this unique way of fighting (to the british) they hid and watched hem and waited for the best time to attack. The British accustomed to the opposing side showing themselves out in the open field were taken back by these tactics which the opposition probably learned from the american Indians. They approached war more like a hunter looking for the prey. This was one weakness of the brits. and it cost them the war. You would think we had learned a lesson here, but in the 1860's the north fought the south in open fields to the sound of drums and men were slaughtered by the thousands in what I think is one of the dumbest ways to fight any enemy. Whoever has more men would win the war supposedly, that is until more advanced weaponry was invented.

Sorry for that mini history lesson. I'm making the point that any army or target which is large is obviously at a disadvantage against an enemy that hides itself in the worst kind of way, by embedding into the general population and hanging out under hospitals in tunnels and so forth,so countries began to get wise to this and developed the Navy seals and similar using guerrilla tactics and high tech to get the enemy. This has been very successful using Israel's A team equivalent. They can look like the general population too and waltz right in with their hidden weaponry.

I imagine Hamas takes an oath of some sort committing to 'fight to the death', and they butter up their 'elite' soldiers. If hard pressed and given a way out I'm pretty sure many of them would love to walk away from it. Their attack on Israel looks like a low budget operation which would seem to indicate they weren't funded by larger groups. I also realize this in itself could have been intentional because they knew they could inflict a lot of damage with those terroristic low budget operations and once again the main enemy remains hidden unless you flush them out. A lot like Satan really.

[The_Patriot21]

On 2/16/2024 at 5:33 AM, Starise said:

Not much discussion here on them or if there is, they are all seen as an enemy.

What are your thoughts on those innocent caught in this war and forced to relocate? Is the feeling "oh well"?

Do you see them all as the enemy? 

Personally I can't see it that way.

Enemy? No. Biblically even hamas is not our enemy, that is Satan.

However, the fact remains that Hamas has made it their goal to completely eradicate Israel through any means necessary. They don't even bother to hide it. No matter how much Israel caves to them, Hamas won't stop until Israel is completely annihilate.

And they are the pure definition of evil. They are so bad most of Palestine's neighbors have driven them out. They are more then willing to hide under hospitals, schools, anywhere where any retaliation against their evil is garenteed to kill innocent civilians.

They chose the gaza strip because unlike their neighbors the Palestinians won't run them out. A lot of them while they don't necessarily want to fight Israel, would just as soon see Israel gone as well.

And Hamas has really given Israel no choice, they either take the scorched earth against Hamas, or they let Hamas destroy them.

Does it bother me the innocent are caught up in this battle on both sides? Absolutely. But outside of Christ's return, it's going to happen. It's unfortunate, but that is life on this planet.

And the blame doesn't lie with Israel. Nor does it lie with the Palestinians who won't run Hamas out, even though they should have, the blame lies entirely with Hamas. All those innocent lives on both sides stem from Hamas pure unadulterated hatred.

 

[The_Patriot21]

On 3/1/2024 at 1:30 PM, Slibhin said:

Palestinians aren't allowed to own guns, what are they supposed to run hamas out with? Foul language?

Tell me who doesn't allow them to have guns? 

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

What, you feel great empathy for the plants you harvest? Are you becoming a Jain?

Shalom, Slibhin.

Nonsense. I feel for all living things because it was G-D who gave them life! I cannot; therefore, I respect all things that God made alive. However, I respect them with the varying degree to which they are to be respected. Mankind is MOST PRECIOUS of all G-D'S creation!

Do you ever think about the lives of the animals that were slain in the service of the Tabernacle and the Temple? A lamb of the first year, for instance, is NOT to be taken lightly. First, it was a PURE animal, without spot or blemish. If there were any children in a household, you KNOW how children gravitate to young animals! The lamb or kid, being with the family for at least a year, soon take on the status as a PET or a precious friend! To have to give them up as a sacrifice does not come easily to a romantic, sympathetic child!

I do not hunt, unless it is out of need. When I fish, I practice catch-and-release. I respect the fact that G-D gave that animal life,  and I do not take that life lightly, and above all, I give G-D thanks for each one He provides, if I must make a meal of what I caught.

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

The civilians actually do live and die by hamas because they are terrorist thugs who keep them living in squalor and are not above murdering them, hence why they don't speak up and there haven't been elections since 2006. Thank Netanyahu. People here wanna help Israel? Then call your representatives and tell them to stop supporting him and the Likud. Tell them to demand Biden and his gaggle of morons force some sort of sit down and restore some semblance of normal government in Palestine. Stop creating the circumstances that drive people to support extremists.

That's what I've been saying! But the common civilians DON'T HAVE A SAY in what Hamas does! That's why I said they were two different peoples! I AGREE with your assessment of the "terrorist thugs!"

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

Groups like hamas don't just pop up. When people are desperate they resort to desperate measures, which includes relying on ever more extreme leaders. People like to forget that Israel fired the first shots and seized the west bank, gaza and so on. Yes there was a lot of saber rattling and Egypt isn't innocent but whomever fires first is the instigator. If someone beats you up and takes your property, and you attack them to get it back, they don't get to claim to be defending themselves.

You're forgetting a MAJOR part of Middle Eastern history! When the Arab nations learned of the Balfour Declaration and the British mandate to colonize the Land with the Jews from all over Europe and Asia, they began to put their people (often against their will) INSIDE the Land, as though "they had always been there."

At the time, NOBODY wanted to live in the Land because it had been SALTED by the Romans many years earlier ON PURPOSE to destroy the Land's usefulness!

It was a DESERT WASTELAND when people started to come back to the Land. But, it was the JEWS who washed the Land with many buckets of water until it was able to support plants once again. The Jews also planted many trees and undergrowth to help the Land recover!

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

Most people on this forum and all the Zionists in the west have never been to Palestine in their lives. If you have not been there and seen things with your own eyes you are not in a position to make proclamations about what is and isn't so. Real people are dying so Israel can take what it wants and Christians can live out their apocalyptic fantasies.

And, you and your compatriots haven't lived in the Land so long that you know PERSONALLY what happened in the Land prior to the Balfour Declaration! You WEREN'T THERE, either! We ALL have to learn from historical accounts, and yes, Slibhin, we can READ! Furthermore, we are UNAFRAID to read the B'rit Chadashah,  because we haven't been POISONED to its reading as have OTHERS!

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

I don't have any regard for the King James or other Christian translations.

So? I use the King James Version because it is well known in the United States, as it has been used for over 400 years! I also use it because, here in the United States,
it is in the Public Domain, and may be quoted and used in apologetical arguments without copyright infringement. Another reason I use it is because it uses the OLD English pronouns of "thee," "thou," "thy," "thine," and "ye." These pronouns differentiate between the singular and the plural in the second-person pronouns.

"Thou" is second-person, singular, subjective.
"Thee" is second-person, singular, objective.
"Thy" is second-person, singular, possessive adjective.
"Thine" is second-person, singular, possessive nominative/objective.

"Ye" is second-person, plural, subjective.
"You" is second-person, plural, objective.
"Your" is second-person, plural, possessive adjective.
"Yours" is second-person, plural, possessive nominative/objective.

This information is LOST in modern English versions! If one will find this out at all, one will either have to find it in the context, or one will have to check the Hebrew or Greek.

For my personal Bible study, I prefer to go to the original languages and read it there. One day, if G-D permits, I would like to translate my own version of the Bible, both the Tanakh and the B'rit Chadashah.

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

Here [is] what Isaiah 63 says:

1 Who is this coming from Edom, with soiled garments, from Bozrah, this one [Who was] stately in His apparel, girded with the greatness of His strength? "I speak with righteousness, great to save."

2 Why is Your clothing red, and your attire like [that of] one who trod in a wine press?

3 "A wine press I trod alone, and from the peoples, none was with Me; and I trod them with My wrath, and I trampled them with My fury, and their life blood sprinkled on My garments, and all My clothing I soiled.

4 For a day of vengeance was in My heart, and the year of My redemption has arrived.

5 And I looked and there was no one helping, and I was astounded and there was no one supporting, and My arm saved for Me, and My fury-that supported Me.

6 And I trod peoples with My wrath, and I intoxicated them with My fury, and I brought their power down to the earth."

7 The kind acts of the L-rd I will mention, the praises of the L-rd, according to all that the L-rd bestowed upon us, and much good to the house of Israel, which He bestowed upon them according to His mercies and according to His many kind acts.

8 And He said, "They are but My people, children who will not deal falsely." And He became their Savior.

9 In all their trouble, He did not trouble [them], and the angel of His presence saved them; with His love and with His pity He redeemed them, and He bore them, and He carried them all the days of old.

10 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit, and He was turned to be their enemy; He fought with them.

11 And His people remembered the days of old, [the days of] Moses; where is he who drew them up from the sea, [like] a shepherd His flock; where is he who placed within them His Holy Spirit?

12 He led at Moses' right the arm of His glory, splitting the water before them to make for Himself an everlasting name.

13 He led them in the depths like a horse in the desert; they did not stumble.

14 As animals spread out in a valley, the spirit of the L-rd guided them, so You guided Your people to make You a glorious name.

15 Look from heaven and see, the dwelling of Your holiness and Your glory; where are Your zeal and Your mighty deeds? The yearning of Your heart and Your mercy are restrained to me.

16 For You are our father, for Abraham did not know us, neither did Israel recognize us; You, O L-rd, are our father; our redeemer of old is your name.

17 Why do You lead us astray O L-rd, from Your ways, You harden our heart from Your fear? Return for the sake of Your servants, the tribes of Your heritage.

18 For [but] a short time Your holy people inherited; our adversaries trampled Your sanctuary.

19 We were [like those] over whom You never ruled, over whom Your name was not called; had You rent the heavens, had You descended, mountains would have dripped from before You.

See, here is ANOTHER English version of the Tanakh! Why do you prefer this version over the other English versions? Wouldn't it be better to read it like THIS?

1מִי־זֶ֣ה ׀ בָּ֣א מֵאֱדֹ֗ום חֲמ֤וּץ בְּגָדִים֙ מִבָּצְרָ֔ה זֶ֚ה הָד֣וּר בִּלְבוּשֹׁ֔ו צֹעֶ֖ה בְּרֹ֣ב כֹּחֹ֑ו אֲנִ֛י מְדַבֵּ֥ר בִּצְדָקָ֖ה רַ֥ב לְהֹושִֽׁיעַ׃

2מַדּ֥וּעַ אָדֹ֖ם לִלְבוּשֶׁ֑ךָ וּבְגָדֶ֖יךָ כְּדֹרֵ֥ךְ בְּגַֽת׃

3פּוּרָ֣ה ׀ דָּרַ֣כְתִּי לְבַדִּ֗י וּמֵֽעַמִּים֙ אֵֽין־אִ֣ישׁ אִתִּ֔י וְאֶדְרְכֵ֣ם בְּאַפִּ֔י וְאֶרְמְסֵ֖ם בַּחֲמָתִ֑י וְיֵ֤ז נִצְחָם֙ עַל־בְּגָדַ֔י וְכָל־מַלְבּוּשַׁ֖י אֶגְאָֽלְתִּי׃

4כִּ֛י יֹ֥ום נָקָ֖ם בְּלִבִּ֑י וּשְׁנַ֥ת גְּאוּלַ֖י בָּֽאָה׃

5וְאַבִּיט֙ וְאֵ֣ין עֹזֵ֔ר וְאֶשְׁתֹּומֵ֖ם וְאֵ֣ין סֹומֵ֑ךְ וַתֹּ֤ושַֽׁע לִי֙ זְרֹעִ֔י וַחֲמָתִ֖י הִ֥יא סְמָכָֽתְנִי׃

6וְאָב֤וּס עַמִּים֙ בְּאַפִּ֔י וַאֲשַׁכְּרֵ֖ם בַּחֲמָתִ֑י וְאֹורִ֥יד לָאָ֖רֶץ נִצְחָֽם׃ ס

7חַֽסְדֵ֨י יְהוָ֤ה ׀ אַזְכִּיר֙ תְּהִלֹּ֣ת יְהוָ֔ה כְּעַ֕ל כֹּ֥ל אֲשֶׁר־גְּמָלָ֖נוּ יְהוָ֑ה וְרַב־טוּב֙ לְבֵ֣ית יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֲשֶׁר־גְּמָלָ֥ם כְּֽרַחֲמָ֖יו וּכְרֹ֥ב חֲסָדָֽיו׃

8וַיֹּ֙אמֶר֙ אַךְ־עַמִּ֣י הֵ֔מָּה בָּנִ֖ים לֹ֣א יְשַׁקֵּ֑רוּ וַיְהִ֥י לָהֶ֖ם לְמֹושִֽׁיעַ׃

9בְּֽכָל־צָרָתָ֣ם ׀ [לֹא כ] (לֹ֣ו ק) צָ֗ר וּמַלְאַ֤ךְ פָּנָיו֙ הֹֽושִׁיעָ֔ם בְּאַהֲבָתֹ֥ו וּבְחֶמְלָתֹ֖ו ה֣וּא גְאָלָ֑ם וַֽיְנַטְּלֵ֥ם וַֽיְנַשְּׂאֵ֖ם כָּל־יְמֵ֥י עֹולָֽם׃

10וְהֵ֛מָּה מָר֥וּ וְעִצְּב֖וּ אֶת־ר֣וּחַ קָדְשֹׁ֑ו וַיֵּהָפֵ֥ךְ לָהֶ֛ם לְאֹויֵ֖ב ה֥וּא נִלְחַם־בָּֽם׃

11וַיִּזְכֹּ֥ר יְמֵֽי־עֹולָ֖ם מֹשֶׁ֣ה עַמֹּ֑ו אַיֵּ֣ה ׀ הַֽמַּעֲלֵ֣ם מִיָּ֗ם אֵ֚ת רֹעֵ֣י צֹאנֹ֔ו אַיֵּ֛ה הַשָּׂ֥ם בְּקִרְבֹּ֖ו אֶת־ר֥וּחַ קָדְשֹֽׁו׃

12מֹולִיךְ֙ לִימִ֣ין מֹשֶׁ֔ה זְרֹ֖ועַ תִּפְאַרְתֹּ֑ו בֹּ֤וקֵֽעַ מַ֙יִם֙ מִפְּנֵיהֶ֔ם לַעֲשֹׂ֥ות לֹ֖ו שֵׁ֥ם עֹולָֽם׃

13מֹולִיכָ֖ם בַּתְּהֹמֹ֑ות כַּסּ֥וּס בַּמִּדְבָּ֖ר לֹ֥א יִכָּשֵֽׁלוּ׃

14כַּבְּהֵמָה֙ בַּבִּקְעָ֣ה תֵרֵ֔ד ר֥וּחַ יְהוָ֖ה תְּנִיחֶ֑נּוּ כֵּ֚ן נִהַ֣גְתָּ עַמְּךָ֔ לַעֲשֹׂ֥ות לְךָ֖ שֵׁ֥ם תִּפְאָֽרֶת׃

15הַבֵּ֤ט מִשָּׁמַ֙יִם֙ וּרְאֵ֔ה מִזְּבֻ֥ל קָדְשְׁךָ֖ וְתִפְאַרְתֶּ֑ךָ אַיֵּ֤ה קִנְאָֽתְךָ֙ וּגְב֣וּרֹתֶ֔ךָ הֲמֹ֥ון מֵעֶ֛יךָ וְֽרַחֲמֶ֖יךָ אֵלַ֥י הִתְאַפָּֽקוּ׃

16כִּֽי־אַתָּ֣ה אָבִ֔ינוּ כִּ֤י אַבְרָהָם֙ לֹ֣א יְדָעָ֔נוּ וְיִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל לֹ֣א יַכִּירָ֑נוּ אַתָּ֤ה יְהוָה֙ אָבִ֔ינוּ גֹּאֲלֵ֥נוּ מֵֽעֹולָ֖ם שְׁמֶֽךָ׃

17לָ֣מָּה תַתְעֵ֤נוּ יְהוָה֙ מִדְּרָכֶ֔יךָ תַּקְשִׁ֥יחַ לִבֵּ֖נוּ מִיִּרְאָתֶ֑ךָ וּב לְמַ֣עַן עֲבָדֶ֔יךָ שִׁבְטֵ֖י נַחֲלָתֶֽךָ׃

18לַמִּצְעָ֕ר יָרְשׁ֖וּ עַם־קָדְשֶׁ֑ךָ צָרֵ֕ינוּ בֹּוסְס֖וּ מִקְדָּשֶֽׁךָ׃

19הָיִ֗ינוּ מֵֽעֹולָם֙ לֹֽא־מָשַׁ֣לְתָּ בָּ֔ם לֹֽא־נִקְרָ֥א שִׁמְךָ֖ עֲלֵיהֶ֑ם

(Again, please forgive the line justification. The whole thing should be right justified.)

Anyway, look at who is doing the work on G-D'S behalf! זְרֹעִי "My ARM!" That is a reference to the Maashiyach!

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

Bozrah (בָּצְרָ֔ה, Baatsraah) is an ancient city in Jordan, today called Busaira, and was the capital of Edom (אֱדֹ֗ום, 'Edowm). Isaiah (and Jeremiah) predicted it's destruction and that's exactly what happened. What does this have to do with the Messiah?

This is not just talking about ANCIENT 'Edowm!" Herod the Great was an Idumean ("Edomite")! This grandson of Avraham, another son of Yitschaq (Isaac), had children that also lived in the Middle East, southeast of the Dead Sea, in the land named by his nickname, "'Edowm" - "Red!" And, he was so named because of the RED soup/pottage for which he traded his birthright!

When the Kingdom of Jordan was created, they still lived there! Their destruction as prophesied has NOT YET HAPPENED!

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

I never said G-d didn't or wouldn't strike down particularly evil nations. What is aid was the Messiah is a bringer of peace. The Tanakh says clearly bows will be broken, swords will be turned into plowshares, nation will no longer make war with other nations.

Isaiah 25:8 He has concealed death forever, and the L-rd G-d shall wipe the tears off every face, and the shame of His people He shall remove from upon the entire earth, for the L-rd has spoken.

You might find it interesting that this verse is quoted in part in Revelation 21:4.

HOWEVER, this peace that the Maashiyach will bring will TAKE TIME to realize! It's not something that He will make happen overnight! Revelation 20:1-6 tells us that it will take a THOUSAND YEARS to accomplish!

Rav Sha'uwl told us in his first letter to those gathered in the synagogue at Korinth, Asia Minor, that the Maashiyach will subdue all of His enemies:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ (Messiah) risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ (in the Messiah) shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ (the Messiah) the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's (those who belong to the Messiah) at his coming.
24 (2) Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet.

(But when he saith "all things are put under [him," it is] manifest that "he" is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Then, once the whole world is under His authority, He will turn the Global Empire over to His Father, G-D, that G-D may be all in all. Then, the Maashiyach will go on reigning just over the house of Israel forever, as predicted in the Davidic Covenant of 2 Samuel 7 and 1 Chronicles 17. Oh, and btw, "subduing" doesn't ALWAYS mean "violently!" Sometimes, a nation can be "subdued" by THEIR SURRENDER! Sometimes, a nation can be "subdued" by their willingness to SUBMIT!

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

There is nothing in Jewish prophecy, and never has been, about the Messiah being a violent warmonger or smiting. It's an evangelical revenge fantasy, and in my opinion says a lot about how many of you actually view the world and the lack of value you place on human life or dignity.

If you believe that, you're falling for the SAME MISUNDERSTANDING! You THINK we're promoting "an evenagelical revenge fantasy," but G-D said "Vengeance is MINE! I will repay!"

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

Jews do not believe and never have that only Jews get to go to heaven or that only followers of Judaism are right with G-d. The Messiah will write G-d's laws on people's hearts, not carve them out with a sword. The world will know G-d, not everyone who doesn't will be destroyed. That's what the Tanakh plainly says.

And, that is why we EVANGELIZE! That's a Greek word meaning "to spread the GOOD NEWS!" "EUAGGELION!" And, that is also why Sha'uwl said it would TAKE TIME!

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

G-d says, repeatedly, that above all he cares about mercy, forgiveness and kindness. In fact he has even stated it's more important to him then sacrifices and offerings.

Yes, I know about Mikhah ("Micah") 6:7-8.

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

He has said if you are genuinely sorry for a sin or wrongdoing he will forgive you. He has said he does not want anyone to die, he wants them to live.

I agree! However, He also gave people FREE WILL! What if they WON'T come to Him "genuinely sorry for their sin?" He MUST judge the world!

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

What you people promote, which is nihilism, violence and bloody retribution is in total contradiction to Hashem's very clear stated views. If I thought the G-d of Abraham was bloodthirsty I would not be a Jew. This is one of the chief reasons I do not believe in Christianity, because it promotes a G-d and a Messiah that is completely contrary to what we have always believed about them and what is written.

See? You have the WRONG PICTURE about us! Therefore, your argument is a STRAW MAN! You can EASILY knock down a false image of what you THINK is wrong, but isn't really there!

1 hour ago, Slibhin said:

Messiah, or Mashiach, means someone/something anointed by G-d. THE Messiah, as in the Jewish saviour, is not the only person who has held that title over the centuries and even non-Jews have been called this. Cyrus the great was considered Mashiach because of his role in building the second temple. It doesn't have quite the same meaning to us that it does to you. While the Messiah is special we have never believed he will be divine or worshipped.

I agree! Sha'uwl haMelekh was an anointed one! So was David and Shlomoh and all the kings of Shlomoh's sons! The priests of G-D were anointed ones! Many of the prophets were anointed ones! And, yes, anyone that G-D picked for a particular service or position was His anointed one! Moreover, the items in the Tabernacle (Tent) and in the Temple were so anointed!

But, you MUST know that THE Maashiyach of prophecy is the ULTIMATE Anointed One! The One chosen by G-D to be the ETERNAL KING of Israel,
in fulfillment of G-D'S covenant to David!

[The_Patriot21]

26 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

So you've never even done so much as a Google search?

Only the Palestinian security, an arm of the Israeli government, is allowed to own firearms. Palestinian citizens are prohibited unless the PA gives them a license, which surprise, almost never happens. Plus merely owning a gun in Gaza or the West Bank can flag you as a terrorist so gun ownership is very low. However, hamas and criminals in bed with hamas have very high gun ownership.

I don't know if I'm more surprised at the wide support for genocide from the same people who think aborting a zygote should carry the death penalty, or less surprised that no one here has ever bothered to look up anything whatsoever about Palestine.

Correct. And the reason they don't, is because.... wait for it, a surprising number of people there would either use the gun to shoot Israelis or give it to someone else who would.

But as you've noted those who want guns, obviously have the capability to get them. But the citizens don't need them. They can tell Israel where Hamas is hiding. They can refuse to let them hide under their hospitals. But they do nothing.

I like how you compare those who support Israel, and pro life as being supporters of genocide.

I mean it's not like Hamas attacked Israel intentionally targeting citizens and not military targets then returning back to Palestine to hide under schools, hospitals and other such targets where any retribution will result in innocent casualties. 

These are all well documented facts. To say otherwise is a false statement.

Kind of like your blatantly false accusation that those of us who rightfully oppose abortion, want the death penalty for the mothers who do it. 

That statement hasn't been made. Yes, abortion is absolutely murder. No matter what you say about it it's murder, and through abortion America has committed the largest genocide in history. 

But, killing the mothers to be doesn't rectify it. I've done a lot of work with local crisis pregnancy centers who are pro life, offer all kinds of options to young mothers, including counseling to those who choose to go ahead with the abortion.

So don't sit here and group all of us in with a few. Just because you know ome nut job who made one stupid comment doesn't give you the right to falsely accused the rest of us.

[The_Patriot21]

3 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Dude, Israel doesn't care. The IDF is on film desecrating graves, stealing food, beating an old man to death and shooting clearly unarmed civilians. If they try to stand up to hamas, which including ratting them out, they will be shot along with their families. They are terrorists, that's what they do. It's easy for you to say "do it anyway" because it isn't your butt and your family on the line.

Every time Israel commits a war crime like bombing a school or hospital, they always claim hamas was hiding there without evidence. When they have people like you that are more then happy to swallow whatever they saw unquestioningly, they can even get away with it.

I have no doubt hamas has used hospitals and school as bunkers. So what? You don't destroy the only means of survival to an innocent population just to (maybe) kill a handful of thugs.

I have seen evangelical Christians, in large numbers, support the death penalty and draconian punishments for woman who have abortions. In fact, it is so widely supported that some states in your country have even tried to pass bills to enshrine such laws. I didn't say every one of you supported it, but enough do. So don't accuse me of lying or acting like it's some fringe opinion.

In every war, you have a select few that commit war crimes from any side. That's a fact. The examples you list are just that, a select few. A select few the media are locking on to to paint a very, very false narrative about Israel.

I find it sad that so many people, such as yourself are buying into that false narrative. Your suggesting that Israel just steps back and allow Hamas to murder it's citizens en masse. With Hamas it's not the few committing these crimes, it's everyone. The mere fact they're willing to hide under schools and hospitals (many of which were built by Israel for the Palestinians) is proof positive of how evil they are.

Israel won't kill people for pointing out where Hamas is. Hamas will. They will kill any Palestinians who dare speak out against them, then they will blame it on Israel. 

The only ones committing genocide over there is Hamas. Israel is simply defending itself.

You are being lied to, and your believing it. Your judging an entire nation based on a few bad apples because that's what you've been told, and you refuse to look past what your told because you want it to be true.

As such I see no further point in this discussion. If you want to believe these lies, that's on you, I can't force you to change your mind, nor will I try. Have a good night.