How We Are All Different From Unbelievers?, How We Are All Alike

[NConly]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

@D. Adrien 2 Corinthians 5.17: "...if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Don't forget 1 Pet 5:10

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

[D. Adrien]

3 hours ago, farouk said:

@D. Adrien 2 Corinthians 5.17: "...if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Indeed. But we all have to deal with the fleshly self. We are new in having the option of following the Holy Spirit which dwells within us. The old man hasn't yet expired and is evident in the law of sin and death which still tries to dominate.

[Starise]

I guess my main premise here was to ask what difference can the world see? While I appreciate getting into the nuts and bolts of this it gets into the internals of 'us'. I am looking for the externals to 'them'.

While we are all internalizing this stuff the world looks at us. While OUR growth is important what do THEY see and why?

I'll try and give you my nutshell answer on this. 

We should be noted by our genuine love and caring for the lost.

If the Lord leads you to do something, sometimes I think we need to be telling others this. Nice people or even not nice people do nice things for other people.

The difference is the reason and motivation in us to do those things is that we have Christ living in us. The rest of the world can't differentiate unless we TELL them.

Words are important here. If we meet someone we don't know and we had a shady past, they never seen the transformation in us from what we once were to what we are now. This is in and of itself a miracle, yet one that goes unnoticed by casual aquaintences. To those who did see the transformation, it is a standing testimony to what God can and will do.

To those who never seen a transformation, they only see what we are. God puts certain people in our daily paths. What do those people think of you and why? 

Oh he or she is a 'good' person. What does that mean? Good person? A person who does good things, or the things others look at as good things, yet many people only show one side of themselves, sort of like a flounder. False teachers who impersonate Christians have another side that never intended to follow Christ. For them it's all a facade. They are secretly doing these bad things while smiling and shaking hands in church. 

When one of them is caught, the world needs to see that we are different and that this person is the imposter 2 Peter and Hebrews 2 tells us about. 

Mainly though, to those strangers and aquaintences we know and befriend, we are genuinly twofold. We display a genuiness not found anywhere else. Sincere love. Additionally we have a story to tell, a testimony that we can share. If not a testimony, we have the working model in the telling it to them for how it happens.

Jesus. It's Jesus. Simple. Believe in Him. Trust Him, accept Him for who He is, for what He did. That kind of trust will always be rewarded. WE must TELL them or we are simply another nice person doing nice things.

 

[other one]

17 hours ago, Starise said:

Then atheists will be in heaven according to your statement.

that's an interesting way of looking at it.

[Ray12614]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

I guess my main premise here was to ask what difference can the world see? While I appreciate getting into the nuts and bolts of this it gets into the internals of 'us'. I am looking for the externals to 'them'.

While we are all internalizing this stuff the world looks at us. While OUR growth is important what do THEY see and why?

I'll try and give you my nutshell answer on this. 

We should be noted by our genuine love and caring for the lost.

If the Lord leads you to do something, sometimes I think we need to be telling others this. Nice people or even not nice people do nice things for other people.

The difference is the reason and motivation in us to do those things is that we have Christ living in us. The rest of the world can't differentiate unless we TELL them.

Words are important here. If we meet someone we don't know and we had a shady past, they never seen the transformation in us from what we once were to what we are now. This is in and of itself a miracle, yet one that goes unnoticed by casual aquaintences. To those who did see the transformation, it is a standing testimony to what God can and will do.

To those who never seen a transformation, they only see what we are. God puts certain people in our daily paths. What do those people think of you and why? 

Oh he or she is a 'good' person. What does that mean? Good person? A person who does good things, or the things others look at as good things, yet many people only show one side of themselves, sort of like a flounder. False teachers who impersonate Christians have another side that never intended to follow Christ. For them it's all a facade. They are secretly doing these bad things while smiling and shaking hands in church. 

When one of them is caught, the world needs to see that we are different and that this person is the imposter 2 Peter and Hebrews 2 tells us about. 

Mainly though, to those strangers and aquaintences we know and befriend, we are genuinly twofold. We display a genuiness not found anywhere else. Sincere love. Additionally we have a story to tell, a testimony that we can share. If not a testimony, we have the working model in the telling it to them for how it happens.

Jesus. It's Jesus. Simple. Believe in Him. Trust Him, accept Him for who He is, for what He did. That kind of trust will always be rewarded. WE must TELL them or we are simply another nice person doing nice things.

 

Okay . . . I see what you are getting at now . . . so my take on this is . . . 

Everything that we do should be done by Faith. James says that Faith without works is dead, and so Faith and Works are eternally linked to each other. So ALL of our works that people can see (some are private like prayer and devotions) should be linked to an Biblical principle, OR, an direct command from Jesus Himself given in the NT scriptures. MUCH can be said about this, and others have done so in the above postings.

Let me offer one more thing that can be observed publicly; 

Jhn 13:35 KJV By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

From reading this direct word from Jesus, it appears that Jesus has given the world permission to judge us as to whether or not we are His disciples based on how or IF we show love to EACH OTHER. Evidently that is an tell-tale mark of discipleship. That kind of love that is observable must be shown as outward actions (words and deeds, faith and works).

Since joining Worthy, over the years I have been on the receiving end of some people who have blasted my view points about various topics, which is okay (iron sharpens iron), and I am teachable (but not gullible).

But a few have assessed my different view points of various subjects like church attendance, rapture timings etc. in very critical judgmental attitudes that stray over into legalism and ridicule. So at those times I speak the truth in love trying to be gentle and allowing them to disagree and who knows, that kind of attitude might help them. But for sure, based on their lack of showing love for Worthy members who dare disagree with them, we can know that they are NOT His disciples. Do they have some knowledge of scripture? Yes, I have no doubt that they do. Are they in an discipleship relationship with Jesus? Evidently not . . . 

I pray that we all learn how to love each other as Jesus taught us to love . . . speaking the Truth in Love.

Grace and Peace . . . Ray . . . 

[Starise]

7 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

Everything that we do should be done by Faith. James says that Faith without works is dead, and so Faith and Works are eternally linked to each other. So ALL of our works that people can see (some are private like prayer and devotions) should be linked to an Biblical principle, OR, an direct command from Jesus Himself given in the NT scriptures. MUCH can be said about this, and others have done so in the above postings.

Yes, it comes naturally to us if we follow Christ.

8 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

Jhn 13:35 KJV By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

From reading this direct word from Jesus, it appears that Jesus has given the world permission to judge us as to whether or not we are His disciples based on how or IF we show love to EACH OTHER. Evidently that is an tell-tale mark of discipleship. That kind of love that is observable must be shown as outward actions (words and deeds, faith and works).

Not just love each other, not just love our enemy, make friends with them. Not out of necessity, but because this is my inner desire. It really is. It's easy to love your team, but should also be easy to love the other team. Seeing them through the eyes of Jesus helps.

10 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

Since joining Worthy, over the years I have been on the receiving end of some people who have blasted my view points about various topics, which is okay (iron sharpens iron), and I am teachable (but not gullible).

So who are these people and why do they like to blast you? It's only ok if it is done in love. If they are not true believers then some leeway is granted IMO.

12 minutes ago, Ray12614 said:

But a few have assessed my different view points of various subjects like church attendance, rapture timings etc. in very critical judgmental attitudes that stray over into legalism and ridicule. So at those times I speak the truth in love trying to be gentle and allowing them to disagree and who knows, that kind of attitude might help them. But for sure, based on their lack of showing love for Worthy members who dare disagree with them, we can know that they are NOT His disciples. Do they have some knowledge of scripture? Yes, I have no doubt that they do. Are they in an discipleship relationship with Jesus? Evidently not . . . 

I think this should be brought out frequently. I am reading a book currently that talks about the middle ground in theology and I agree with the ideas of that author.

The book is " The Quest For The Radical Middle" by Bill Jackson.

Theology tends to tip either too legalistic or too much emphasis on 'gifts' and we have seen these different streams emerge as confined boxes. The trick is to be in the middle. Don't discount what the Lord is doing and what He can do, yet we need  basis. 

There are also theologically educated unbelievers. I have heard the testimonies of pastors in seminary who said they were not believers who only later got saved.

Worldly passion infecting spiritual men is real problem too. One of the traits of false teachers who were never real to begin with is their propensity towards immorality. Are they carnal unsaved or infected saved? 

This whole time we have a world looking on at this mess. Just look at our daily members list visitor, visitor, visitor....on and on it goes.

Once again a lot of this is turned inward when our effectiveness is outward.

[farouk]

11 hours ago, Gabriel80 said:

I read this the other night (Matthew) and read Jesus' words commenting on Isaiah's writings after the parable.

 

@Gabriel80 I do love how NT quotes and those from OT source tie in so well, very frequently...........

[Marathoner]

4 hours ago, Starise said:

I guess my main premise here was to ask what difference can the world see? While I appreciate getting into the nuts and bolts of this it gets into the internals of 'us'. I am looking for the externals to 'them'.

While we are all internalizing this stuff the world looks at us. While OUR growth is important what do THEY see and why?

I'll try and give you my nutshell answer on this. 

We should be noted by our genuine love and caring for the lost.

If the Lord leads you to do something, sometimes I think we need to be telling others this. Nice people or even not nice people do nice things for other people.

The difference is the reason and motivation in us to do those things is that we have Christ living in us. The rest of the world can't differentiate unless we TELL them.

Words are important here. If we meet someone we don't know and we had a shady past, they never seen the transformation in us from what we once were to what we are now. This is in and of itself a miracle, yet one that goes unnoticed by casual aquaintences. To those who did see the transformation, it is a standing testimony to what God can and will do.

To those who never seen a transformation, they only see what we are. God puts certain people in our daily paths. What do those people think of you and why? 

Oh he or she is a 'good' person. What does that mean? Good person? A person who does good things, or the things others look at as good things, yet many people only show one side of themselves, sort of like a flounder. False teachers who impersonate Christians have another side that never intended to follow Christ. For them it's all a facade. They are secretly doing these bad things while smiling and shaking hands in church. 

When one of them is caught, the world needs to see that we are different and that this person is the imposter 2 Peter and Hebrews 2 tells us about. 

Mainly though, to those strangers and aquaintences we know and befriend, we are genuinly twofold. We display a genuiness not found anywhere else. Sincere love. Additionally we have a story to tell, a testimony that we can share. If not a testimony, we have the working model in the telling it to them for how it happens.

Jesus. It's Jesus. Simple. Believe in Him. Trust Him, accept Him for who He is, for what He did. That kind of trust will always be rewarded. WE must TELL them or we are simply another nice person doing nice things.

 

I focus upon action first. That way, whatever words I speak will carry much more weight. Just the same, a multitude of words isn't necessary or called for when what we do frames what we say.

The best example that comes to mind is making myself available as a friend to others, regardless of who they are. By lending a hand, lending an ear, and proving assistance with no expectation of reciprocity or reward, we demonstrate the love of our Lord. We ask for nothing in return... and this is not the way of the world. 

I attach no conditions to the above, remembering that Christ did not attach conditions to "love your neighbor as yourself." I'm accustomed to being reproached by some who are compelled to raise an objection to the unconditional love of our neighbor, and that's fine. I don't pay it any mind because I'm only concerned with what Christ places in front of me to do, not pleasing the sensibilities of others. 

Someone decided to put my devotion to Christ to the test, doing their very best to chase me away. Am I easily offended? Do I readily cave in to wrath? Will I abandon them like their Christian relatives did? 

What they were doing was utterly abhorrent, of course, but the Spirit counseled me to behave in a manner which defied their expectations: don't respond in kind. Smile and do something useful. Continue to serve them regardless of whatever they throw at me. 

To say this had an effect is an understatement. It turned everything they believed about the Lord and us upside down. The point is simple: when we focus upon what the Lord places in front of us to do, we're doing precisely what we should be doing!

[D. Adrien]

Not needing the love of strangers makes following Jesus easier.

Heb. 12:14

Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

[farouk]

7 minutes ago, D. Adrien said:

Not needing the love of strangers makes following Jesus easier.

Heb. 12:14

Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

@D. Adrien Not worrying about what ppl think; instead, 'looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith...' (Hebrews 12.2).