Eternal Salvation Is Free; Ruling With Christ Is Earned

[Vine Abider]

14 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Everyone who is born again overcomes. But in different degrees. Everyone will rule with Christ in the body of Christ. 

I would say those who are faithful in at least a few things will rule; it doesn't look like it will go so well for the lazy/slothful servant.

[Sower]

On 3/20/2024 at 2:41 PM, Vine Abider said:

What do you think?

I think Judgement ( Bema) Seat of Christ. Wood hay stubble-Gold Silver Precious stones.
Good works to the glory of God vs self works to self glory.
Not sin judgement.   Judgement of what we have been doing considered works.

“For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do.”   Ephesians 2:10

The judgement of our works (at the Judgement seat of Christ) determines our position ruling. Or not.
Only believers will be judged for their works. The lost will go to the great white thrown judgement.

Wood hay stubble works are burned, not salvation, but we may enter as by fire with little or no 'good' works.
Gold silver precious stones are representative of good works done while here on earth.

To whom much is given, much is required. Talents-grace-knowledge-blessings, health/wealth etc.
Receiving much requires good stewardship, faithfulness, with what God has given us to use to his glory.
Receiving little is the same, being faithful with the little, a good steward, gains more, or much more.
Receiving much and yet being a poor steward with God's blessing is held accountable by the judgement seat.

Like at the biblical Olympics, the judge has watched the participants. Evaluating-judging the winners, the faithful, at His Judgement seat, individually, I do not believe corporately.
Bema means a raised 'podium' that God will sit and judge each one of our works.
Those who have been faithful in much, will receive much in the ruling, 1-2-3 cities or provinces, etc, not sure the amounts etc..
Those who received much and were yet poor stewards, wood hay stubble mostly, will receive little.
Those that received little yet were very faithful in what they received, good stewards,
will receive much concerning rewards, or ruling.

There's much more but I believe the jist is simply right now God is recording our works, and the past and future.  Who was the faithful stewards? These will be judged at the Bema seat, and the results determine our position with Christ in the future reign.

This is not anything to do with any sins which have all been paid for.
It's about how we have actually been showing our God and savior how much we love Him. Or not.
He will judge to determine who rules what where, if anything.

My simple studied understanding.

PS, edit add.
The works we do/have done is decided on most by our motive for having done a 'good' work.
Not the amount, but having been a good steward, faithful, for whatever amount we had to work with.
Why do a work? To be seen, praised by friends for unjust gain, to show someone up etc etc,
or silently, maybe unseen, or simply because we know it will please-glorify the Father.

[Wayne222]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I would say those who are faithful in at least a few things will rule; it doesn't look like it will go so well for the lazy/slothful servant.

The point is we have overcome by faith in the name of Jesus. John said whoever loves has been born of God. Those born of God has the divine nature. If we are loving our brother we have overcome the world.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Christ is coming back to the earth. Zechariah 14. His feet will be on the mt of olives. The new Jerusalem will be on the earth. So heaven comes to earth. The saints go through the tribulation. After the seventh trumpet sounds the dead will raise. 

Hi Wayne,

I agree that the Lord will come back to earth, however there is no scripture that says the believers in the Body of Christ will come with Him. Christ delivers Israel and then judges the nations. He then sets up His rulership through Israel over the nations. (Micah 4: 1 - 3) Christ then returns to His seat of power and authority overall in the third heaven. (Eph. 1: 20 - 22)

The Body of Christ with the Lord will be ruling from the highest in the tribulation, judging the world system and fallen angels. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, NConly said:

I am thinking Israel is Zion. In Micah 4 who is the daughter mentioned a couple times seems important?

Hi NConly,

Interesting question. And yes, Israel is often referred to as (earthly) Zion.

Micah 4: 2 `Many nations shall come and say," Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us of His ways, and we shall walk in His paths." For out of Zion the law shall go forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. `

Zion is the ruling part (law) and Jerusalem (which is the city part) where people can learn the ways of the Lord. 

Then the phrase `daughter of Zion,` and `daughter of Jerusalem,` (Micah 4: 8) I think refers to the Jewish remnant that will be regathered. 

[D. Adrien]

5 hours ago, Sower said:

I think Judgement ( Bema) Seat of Christ. Wood hay stubble-Gold Silver Precious stones.
Good works to the glory of God vs self works to self glory.
Not sin judgement.   Judgement of what we have been doing considered works.

“For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do.”   Ephesians 2:10

The judgement of our works (at the Judgement seat of Christ) determines our position ruling. Or not.
Only believers will be judged for their works. The lost will go to the great white thrown judgement.

Wood hay stubble works are burned, not salvation, but we may enter as by fire with little or no 'good' works.
Gold silver precious stones are representative of good works done while here on earth.

To whom much is given, much is required. Talents-grace-knowledge-blessings, health/wealth etc.
Receiving much requires good stewardship, faithfulness, with what God has given us to use to his glory.
Receiving little is the same, being faithful with the little, a good steward, gains more, or much more.
Receiving much and yet being a poor steward with God's blessing is held accountable by the judgement seat.

Like at the biblical Olympics, the judge has watched the participants. Evaluating-judging the winners, the faithful, at His Judgement seat, individually, I do not believe corporately.
Bema means a raised 'podium' that God will sit and judge each one of our works.
Those who have been faithful in much, will receive much in the ruling, 1-2-3 cities or provinces, etc, not sure the amounts etc..
Those who received much and were yet poor stewards, wood hay stubble mostly, will receive little.
Those that received little yet were very faithful in what they received, good stewards,
will receive much concerning rewards, or ruling.

There's much more but I believe the jist is simply right now God is recording our works, and the past and future.  Who was the faithful stewards? These will be judged at the Bema seat, and the results determine our position with Christ in the future reign.

This is not anything to do with any sins which have all been paid for.
It's about how we have actually been showing our God and savior how much we love Him. Or not.
He will judge to determine who rules what where, if anything.

My simple studied understanding.

PS, edit add.
The works we do/have done is decided on most by our motive for having done a 'good' work.
Not the amount, but having been a good steward, faithful, for whatever amount we had to work with.
Why do a work? To be seen, praised by friends for unjust gain, to show someone up etc etc,
or silently, maybe unseen, or simply because we know it will please-glorify the Father.

I've come to a realization, and I may be wrong, that there are believers who have a struggle being obedient to the word and seek to compromise with Jesus by doing good works that have not been commanded by Him, in hope that Jesus will accept these works as a substitution to obedience to His will.

Mat. 7:21-23(ESV)

 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

[RdJ]

I thought that only the ones who get killed in the trib reign with Christ, so since I utterly hate reigning I better make sure I don't miss the rapture.

[D. Adrien]

8 minutes ago, RdJ said:

I thought that only the ones who get killed in the trib reign with Christ, so since I utterly hate reigning I better make sure I don't miss the rapture.

Some will be Priests for ever in the presence of the Eternal.

Rev. 1:6

and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Rev. 20:6

Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

 

[NConly]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi NConly,

Interesting question. And yes, Israel is often referred to as (earthly) Zion.

Micah 4: 2 `Many nations shall come and say," Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us of His ways, and we shall walk in His paths." For out of Zion the law shall go forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. `

Zion is the ruling part (law) and Jerusalem (which is the city part) where people can learn the ways of the Lord. 

Then the phrase `daughter of Zion,` and `daughter of Jerusalem,` (Micah 4: 8) I think refers to the Jewish remnant that will be regathered. 

Thanks Marilyn C  was way of on who I thought it might be.

[Tristen]

On 3/21/2024 at 5:41 AM, Vine Abider said:

I saw this topic on another forum and thought it would be good to discuss here too.  I think this is a very succinct way of putting things.

What do you think?

 

I think there is nothing worthy in me which Christ has not restored by His grace.

We each come to Christ in a unique state; with a unique array of weaknesses to overcome. The undertone of the thread's title is that there are some better, more worthy, Christians than others. This potentially adds weight to the legalistic burden of many Christians who already struggle under the persistent misconception that God is disappointed with them.

I personally don't care if I rule with Him - so long as I am "with Him".