God's historic national rods of His wrath, discipline and purification of Israel and what that may portend.

[Shilohsfoal]

28 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

What happens at the end of Rev. 2o takes place at the end of the Millennium. You are playing mix-and-match with biblical texts.

The point is,their location.

Do you not realize where those saints live and the kingdom that was given to them 1000 years before?

 

Revelation 20

⁹ And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

Where are these saints and who governed that land before they received it?

[luigi]

30 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Oh, I think I see and I apologize for not understanding your meaning.

Let me try and respond with a very different interpretation of the verses you are referring to. 
 

1) the he-goat horn who is “very great” is Alexander. The 4 generals WILL be given the 4 territories from his kingdom after his death. BUT they are NOT EVER identified as “HORNS.” They are identified as “4 notable ones.” This is why God purposefully selected “horns” to identity and separate the identity of the remaining “powers” that would continue within His plan of salvation and restoration. God is not following OUR history books. 
 

He has given us the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will be established WITHIN HIS PLAN OF RESTORATION / SALVATION. Further, His chapter 2 identification of the 4 kingdoms reflects His “ blueprint” of the 4 kingdoms that will never change. In chapter 2, He gives us the borders and boundaries, the restrictions and guidelines for each of the 4 to ensure they are fixed, and all the coming prophecies found in the later chapters of Daniel, despite using different symbols, will never be interpreted OUTSIDE these 4 kingdoms. It also tells us that there is NO bleeding over or between any of the 4 kingdoms. 
 

And this is so important since most commentators do not treat the 4 generals as STAYING WITHIN THE 3rd kingdom. But they do or should not be a we also see them as the 4 heads on the leopard in chapter 8 (3rd kingdom). The 4 generals (period which may have continued another 20 / 30 years or so) will be replaced by the last or final “little horn.” He will clearly come OUT OF THE 4th kingdom- not the 3rd. 

So the 4th beast kingdom will arrive around 63BC (Imperial Rome) and be in perfect position for many of the earlier prophecies:

1) the coming end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy in 33/34 AD,

2) The end of the 4th and final Great Tribulation in 33/34 AD (although it still has 3.5 years to be completed),

3) The arrival of the Messiah at the beginning of the 70th week of the prophecy, 

4) the complete restoration of His people and His city at the 70th week of years prophecy. 

The most important events in the history of mankind, the arrival of Jesus and His crucifixion is all captured within the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome. These prophecies are not end time prophecies. 

 

 

 

Alexander the Great has nothing to do with the end times described by the angel Gabriel in Daniel 8:17 & 19. 

[Shilohsfoal]

46 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Can you show me one other place in Scripture where the masculine pronoun "he" is used to describe a "government?" I do not claim to be either a scholar of Hebrew or Greek, but I think you are making serious tense errors with the grammar. Can you also show where the Bible says that "systems" are thrown into the Lake of Fire as is indicated for the Beast and False Prophet in Rev. 19:20?

I can show you two different kings called by the same name.

Daniel 11:36

The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

 

In scripture this man is called the king of the north.You call his by the name Donald Trump.But there are other kings of the north who lived in the same house.For instance.Before Donald Trump came to power,there was a raiser of taxes who lived in that house.Do you call him.donald Trump or Barack Obama?

And before the raised of taxes there was another king of the north in scripture who invaded the south and turned to an island and took many.Do you call that king of the north Donald Trump or do you call him GW Bush?

And we can go back to the first mentioned king of the north who's fortress was destroyed.Do you call that king of the north Donald Trump or do you call him Ronald Reagan?

See there have been many kings of the north in scripture,not just one.But they are all called ,king of the north.

 

It's the same with the little horn.There hasnt just been one prime minister ,but many.The person who was prime minister when the little horn defeated the three other horns is not the same prime minister today.

 

 

Edited April 4 by Shilohsfoal

[luigi]

31 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

First, I never brought in the Olivet Discourse. But what I am saying the events in Daniel are NOT end time events. 
 

So, if you would like to tell me what events in the Olivet Discourse I am saying are NOT end time events because you believe I am declaring them to take place in the 4th kingdom, please let me know them and I am sure we can reconcile them. 
 

Hey Charlie744 are you playing games by claiming you never brought in the Olivet discourse? In RED below is a copy of your post. 

I don’t see why the Olivet discourse demands these events are “end times.” God has been quite specific in His use of symbols, timing and the literal events in Daniel. 
 

 

[Jonathan Dane]

42 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Yes,after the little horn who calls itself israel.is destroyed.

Okay. Very good. And since this thread is so long, remind me where exactly the "Little Horn calls itself Israel." No hoops. Just a verse or two will do. Thanks.

[Jonathan Dane]

You guys gotta admit. It's interesting how two guys team up on one guy. And suddenly, the two guys start disputing with each other. LOL. Ohhh, that's fun. We're all a bunch of Bible nerds. 

Edited April 4 by Jonathan Dane

[Shilohsfoal]

4 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Okay. Very good. And since this thread is so long, remind me where exactly the "Little Horn calls itself Israel." No hoops. Just a verse or two will do. Thanks.

If you don't want to believe Israel exists,that's fine with me.

[Jonathan Dane]

25 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The point is,their location.

Do you not realize where those saints live and the kingdom that was given to them 1000 years before?

 

Revelation 20

⁹ And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

Where are these saints and who governed that land before they received it?

The saints pictured here in the geographical location of Israel, the "beloved city" being a reference to Jerusalem.

[Shilohsfoal]

Just now, Jonathan Dane said:

The saints pictured here in the geographical location of Israel, the "beloved city" being a reference to Jerusalem.

And who governed the land of Israel before it was given to those saints?

Daniel 7

²⁵ And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

²⁶ But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

²⁷ And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

 

I will give you a hint,it's not Donald Trump.

[Jonathan Dane]

49 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Maybe soon, but certainly not now. We'll know more about the times and the players when we see the Daniel 11:40 war commence, soon followed by Israel being occupied by the Son of Perdition.

But the Son of Perdition is NOT the Beast, so a lot depends on who you mean when you use the term "the Antichrist." A term with a whole lot of baggage surrounding it, and causing more confusion than understanding, IMHO.

By now, I am not suggesting that Daniel 11:40 is presently commencing. But I believe it is in the near future. I also believe the Antichrist is already making his ascent. 

When you say the Son of Perdition is not the Beast, that depends on "which" Son of Perdition you refer to; there are two: Judas and the End-time Antichrist, who is a type of Judas reborn.