Rev 16:18 suggests an Old Earth??

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

FreeGrace said:

A verb is an ACTION.  A state of being is a condition.  Like confusion, which is your state of confusion.

Verb:  Noun.  A word used to describe an action, state, or occurrence, and forming the main part of the predicate of a sentence, such as hear, become, happen.  Better Call Saul.

No, you should have an examination.  Prove a verb is a "state of being".  

3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Pointing out the foolishness of the foolish is among my finer qualities.

You mean along with all your snarkiness and snottiness?  And all those ad hominems?  

3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

  Yes, it's so clear that for the first 57 centuries nobody noticed it.  It wasn't until geologists began to claim long ages that some people began to try and find a way to worm the heresy of an ancient earth into the text of Genesis.  EVERY source you list is modern; most from the 70's.  If that doesn't prove to you that ruin/reconstruction is a modern heresy, there's nothing anyone can say that will shine light into the darkness of your spirit.

Your theories are getting mighty tired.

3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Clouds have shapes, not forms.

Oh, that's a good one.  Theory, that is.  I guess you never noticed that clouds have width, length, AND depth.  Most peope can easily count to 3.  Clouds have 3 dimensions, which proves that clouds have form.  1 dimension more than shapes.

3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

  I understand that you cannot grasp the difference.  That doesn't change reality.

So you say.  Prove it.

I've proved all my claims with evidence, which you still don't have.

From all you've posted, it is clear that you believe in unreality.

[RV_Wizard]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Prove a verb is a "state of being".  

Get real.  A verb is not a state of being.  Being is a verb.  

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I guess you never noticed that clouds have width, length, AND depth.

None of which are constant.   If they had form they would be resilient to the winds and pressures, but they are constantly shifting.  Thus, though they can have shapes, they have no form.  This is one of many, many things you'll never understand.

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I've proved all my claims with evidence,

You've used claims to support your claims.  No evidence.  You deny that you are professing a modern heresy and yet all of your evidence comes from the 70's.  Here is REAL evidence.

Galations 1:6-10 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

[RV_Wizard]

Unlike the cranial configuration of certain people, this discussion is pointless.  Those who trust in God's word won't be swayed by attempts to cast doubt onto it or to weave false doctrine into it.  Those who do not will readily accept whatever lie Satan concocts.  The Mormons certainly did.  They created their own "bible," based on a false prophet.  Scientology is another false religion, as is the Jehovah's Witnesses.  They may be steadfast in their commitment to the false doctrine, but it won't save them.

Neither Revelation 16:18 nor anything else in the Bible is indicative of an ancient earth.  There are no passages in the Bible that support evolution.  Our creation is not a mystery to us.  It was detailed by our Creator.  We need no other authority but His word.  If we have the Holy Spirit, God's word reveals all to us.  If we don't, the words have no great meaning to us.

The truth is not revealed to all, but to those who seek it the truth is easy to find.  God Himself said it plainly in the Fourth Commandment, that in six days the Lord created the Heaven, the earth, and all that lives in it.  He didn't need millions of years.  He didn't do it in a nanosecond.  He was not required to tell us anything of our creation, but who are we to doubt His word?  Every word from man is contaminated by man's sin.  Every word from God is holy and true.

There is one true and useful knowledge; that Jesus Christ is the lamb of God; that He came to take away the sins of man; that He gave His life for our sins on the cross; that He rose again on the third day and confirmed all of what He had been teaching.  All other knowledge is subservient to this.  

[FreeGrace]

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

  FreeGrace said:

Prove a verb is a "state of being".  

Get real.  A verb is not a state of being.  Being is a verb.

I am real.  Don't you understand what you post?  My response was to your post.

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

If they had form they would be resilient to the winds and pressures, but they are constantly shifting.

That is variable forms.  If an object has 3 dimensions, then it HAS FORM.  From the source your quoted, which supports my claim that the earth cannot ever be formless.

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Thus, though they can have shapes, they have no form.  This is one of many, many things you'll never understand.

Your comments are just hilarious!  The source you quoted explained the DIFFERENCE between shape and form, information which I appreciate.  Thank you.  Your source defined "shape" as having 2 dimensions, and "form" as 3.  So you claim something whose form keep changing/shifting/etc as only 2 dimensions??  Really?

If you can see an object, you are seeing its form.  FACT.

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

You've used claims to support your claims. 

No, that's what you have done.  Repeatedly.  

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

No evidence.

That is what you have done.  

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

  You deny that you are professing a modern heresy and yet all of your evidence comes from the 70's.

No, it comes from what Moses wrote in 1400 BC, and two biblical writers wrote in 700 and 600 BC and Greek and Hewbrew scholars translated in 300 BC.

So don't tell me anything about the 70's.  My FACTS come from the Bible.  Unlike your view.  Which is only an English translation dated around 1611 AD.

10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

  Here is REAL evidence.

Galations 1:6-10 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

This wonderful passage doesn't even address Genesis 1 or creation.  All the Bible is real evidence.  Including what Moses wrote, and clearly defined by Jeremiah and Isaiah.  

But you don't believe evidence from the Bible.  Only others who believe what you do about English translations.  But not all English translations.

[FreeGrace]

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Unlike the cranial configuration of certain people, this discussion is pointless.

Beyond more childish snipes, I agree.  You are so biased with the English translations, and your apparent fear of the idea of a very old earth, it is useless to share FACTS with you.  They aren't sinking in.  

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  Those who trust in God's word won't be swayed by attempts to cast doubt onto it or to weave false doctrine into it.

Casting doubts?  I've not left any "doubt" to cast.  I've provided the biblically defined meaning of "tohu wabohu" but your bias prevents the FACT sink in.

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Neither Revelation 16:18 nor anything else in the Bible is indicative of an ancient earth. 

Moses understood what he wrote.  And so did Jeremiah, which is WHY he quoted from Gen 1:2 to describe the coming TOTAL DESTRUCTION of the land by a besieging army that destroys nations.  

Do you honestly believe that after such an army finishes with the nation it destroys that the land can be described as formless and void?

Rather, the land can be described as an uninhabitable wasteland.

This is what Jeremiah was warning about:

Jer 4:20 - Disaster after disaster is proclaimed, for the whole land is laid waste.  My tents are destroyed in an instant, my curtains in a moment.

Clearly, Jeremiah wasn't describing earth at creation.

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

There are no passages in the Bible that support evolution.

Why do you default to evolution.  I've been very clear throughout that evolution is evil and anti-biblical.  Too bad you don't have the honesty to at least read what I post so you actually know what I believe.

Seems all your posts are just your WRONG opinion about what I believe, and you equate my view with evolution, demonstrating your inability to think straight.

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  Our creation is not a mystery to us.  It was detailed by our Creator.

Of course creation isn't a mystery.  The Bible clearly says that God spoke everything into existence.  That is easy to understand.  However, creation wasn't detailed by God.  What was detailed was the restoration of the earth after it became an uninhabitable wasteland.

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  We need no other authority but His word. 

Then WHY do you keep defaulting to faulty English translations?

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

If we have the Holy Spirit, God's word reveals all to us. 

So, what's YOUR excuse?

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

If we don't, the words have no great meaning to us.

It is very clear that the Hebrew words have no great meaning to you.

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

The truth is not revealed to all, but to those who seek it the truth is easy to find.

Your bias has prevented the truth from penetrating your skull.

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  God Himself said it plainly in the Fourth Commandment, that in six days the Lord created the Heaven, the earth, and all that lives in it.

Well, now you are just lying outright, since Ex 20:11 the word isn't "create" bara, as in Gen 1:1, but "made" as in asah.  But you don't want to know the truth.

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  He didn't need millions of years. 

News flash.  God doesn't need anything.  He created the heavens and earth by speaking them into existence.  A great big BANG!  And all the angels witnessed that magnificent event, and sang for joy.  Job 38:7

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

He didn't do it in a nanosecond.

You weren't there.  but Psa 33:6,9 says He spoke things into existence.

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  He was not required to tell us anything of our creation, but who are we to doubt His word?

God is not required to do anything.  He alone is sovereign.  He gives us the details that He wants to give us.  

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  Every word from man is contaminated by man's sin.  Every word from God is holy and true.

Including translations.

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

There is one true and useful knowledge; that Jesus Christ is the lamb of God; that He came to take away the sins of man; that He gave His life for our sins on the cross; that He rose again on the third day and confirmed all of what He had been teaching.

Amen to all of this.  

53 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

  All other knowledge is subservient to this.  

All of man's knowledge (including translations) are subservient to God's knowledge.

All generalized statements must be clear.  Unlike the one you just made.

[Diamond]

On 4/8/2024 at 8:00 AM, RV_Wizard said:

Proponents of the Gap Theory claim that Genesis 1:1 represents a planet thrown into chaos and in need of restoration, which begins with Genesis 1:2.  However, light was created in Genesis 1:3, so whatever existed before, without form and void by most interpretations, was in total darkness with no source of light or heat.

The GAP is between 1:1 and the rest of the chapter. There is no gap between Genesis 1:2 and 1:3. We are told that 'darkness was over the surface of the deep". This is where there was light. There was sun rise and sun set. This was the beginning of day. This sets the pattern for all the other days. Day begins and ends at the horizon. 

 2Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

[Diamond]

On 5/4/2024 at 8:07 AM, FreeGrace said:

But you don't want to know the truth.

A student is 100% responsable to learn and a teacher is 100% responsable to teach. If the student is not learning then it is because the teacher is not teaching. Or failing to communicate in a way the student can understand or comprehend. 

[RV_Wizard]

5 hours ago, Diamond said:

The GAP is between 1:1 and the rest of the chapter.

Which means the earth existed in total darkness at absolute zero, indicating that nothing could have existed.  Why, then, would one suppose this to be a long time?

[Diamond]

22 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said:

Which means the earth existed in total darkness at absolute zero, indicating that nothing could have existed.  Why, then, would one suppose this to be a long time?

That is what science tells us. I do not see any contradiction between the Bible and what we learn from Science. For me Science is just another way God has to express Himself so we can know our Creator. 

[RV_Wizard]

23 hours ago, Diamond said:

I do not see any contradiction between the Bible and what we learn from Science.

Science is the study of the physical world around us.  It cannot account for a supernatural occurrence, and therefore must postulate naturalistic explanations for things.  Science would tell us on day seven that Adam was at least 20 years old, that he had two parents, that the trees were at least 30-100 years old, and that the animals had been evolving over millions of years.  We know this was not the case.  The generations of the Bible show that life on earth is thousands of years old, not millions.  Because science cannot account for the supernatural and we are a creation of a supernatural God science cannot possibly be correct about the age of the earth or the origins of life.  Science can tell us the elapsed time between two known conditions, but it can't account for an entire universe just showing up over a six day period.