Why does Iran hate Jewish Israel?

[Keras]

5 hours ago, Luther said:

I think it's important that we establish the fact that Revelation 20 is unique from the rest of the Bible, that there is no reference whatsoever to a " literal" (thousand years) regarding  Christ and His kingdom anywhere else in scripture. 

Q: Do you agree? 

No.

Rev 20 simply continues on about what happens after Jesus Returns. 

Hosea 6:2 is another mention of the 2000 years, [2 days to God in heaven] since Jesus was on earth, then another 'day', of a thousand years; the Millennium and after that cones the final Judgment.   Simple, straightforward, logical and what will happen. 

 

[Luther]

5 hours ago, Keras said:

No.

Rev 20 simply continues on about what happens after Jesus Returns. 

Hosea 6:2 is another mention of the 2000 years, [2 days to God in heaven] since Jesus was on earth, then another 'day', of a thousand years; the Millennium and after that cones the final Judgment.   Simple, straightforward, logical and what will happen. 

 

The question I asked, in other words, was, do you agree that the phrase  "thousand years" ( in regards to the  reign of Christ) is found only in  Revelation 20, and nowhere else? You answered "No". 

So then, could you show me where else that phrase is used? Keras, here's why it is so important to establish this simple fact. Throughout church history, the general consensus was to treat Revelation 20 allegorically, as mostly all of that  book should be treated. The reason why you won't find the same language throughout scripture is simply this:

Jesus LITERALLY teaches us that the  resurrection of the just and the unjust  (John 5) is at the last day of this world, at His second and final coming:

Hebrews 9:27-28

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

[28]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

" but after this the judgement". The next event to occur is the judgment at the LAST DAY. 

John 5:28-29

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

[29]And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 11:24

Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Nowhere, absolutely nowhere does scripture ever say anything about the resurrection occuring more than one time. In the case of the " first" resurrection we read about in Revelation 20:6, it is the "chief"  ( Protos, #4413) resurrection or being raised to eternal life at the moment of salvation. We will not be subjected to the "second death"or hell in the resurrection of the last day. 

Now, if you care to make a spiritual observation, let's take a look at Revelation 20:6:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 5:9-10

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

[10]And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

*(Revelation 20:6 as " priests of God" we reign for  a " thousand years")

*(Revelation 5:10 as " priests.... we shall reign on the earth")

The "THOUSAND YEARS" is the  "completeness of time" from the pouring out of the Holy Spirit until the beginning of the great tribulation when Satan is "loosed" to " go out and deceive the nations" ( Rev. 29:8). 

Revelation 1:5-7

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

[6]And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

[7]Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

We are kings and priests in this world until the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, when " EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM". 

The fact is, anywhere in scripture where God's people are likened to " kings" and or " priests", there is no language of a  "millennial reign". 

Please, I hope you take the time to consider what I took the time to write. 

[Luther]

On 7/28/2024 at 7:45 PM, Neighbor said:

Israel has prior title. The only land grant issued by God.  BTW: The full quote by me had a different purpose than quoting half of it  projects.

"Why does Iran hate Jewish Israel?

My guess is it serves the purpose of God."

 

"Israel has prior title. The only land grant issued by God." 

I was wondering if you knew how Israel became a nation in 1948. 

[Keras]

2 hours ago, Luther said:

Please, I hope you take the time to consider what I took the time to write.

I read all of what you wrote. It is mostly irrelevant. 

The exact Words of a thousand year Millennium to come, are not Written, but Hosea 6:2 does Prophesy it. What else could Hosea be referring to?  Did you look at the article - 7000 years of Gods Plan for Mankind?

Many Prophesise tell us that Jesus will come as a King to reign over the world. They are what fooled the Jews in the First Century.

2 hours ago, Luther said:

"Israel has prior title. The only land grant issued by God." 

I was wondering if you knew how Israel became a nation in 1948. 

Matthew 8:12 ...those born into the Kingdom shall be thrown out...

Jermiah 6:10 ...I will give the Land to new owners, those people who have the right to inherit it.

I could wonder if you know the truth of how the Jewish State was established?  It is a Satanic construct, founded on Communistic principals. Its fate is well Prophesied. 

 

[Luther]

12 hours ago, Keras said:

I read all of what you wrote. It is mostly irrelevant. 

The exact Words of a thousand year Millennium to come, are not Written, but Hosea 6:2 does Prophesy it. What else could Hosea be referring to?  Did you look at the article - 7000 years of Gods Plan for Mankind?

Many Prophesise tell us that Jesus will come as a King to reign over the world. They are what fooled the Jews in the First Century.

Matthew 8:12 ...those born into the Kingdom shall be thrown out...

Jermiah 6:10 ...I will give the Land to new owners, those people who have the right to inherit it.

I could wonder if you know the truth of how the Jewish State was established?  It is a Satanic construct, founded on Communistic principals. Its fate is well Prophesied. 

 

I believe the earth is a little over 13,000 years old. 

"The exact Words of a thousand year Millennium to come, are not Written,"

Thank you for acknowledging that. At that point there is no literal connection to Revelation 20. It becomes speculation at this point. Unless we can find substantive confirmation comparing scripture with scripture. 

Hosea 6:2 could also be a parallel to the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and our final resurrection ( in the last day). 

Hosea 6:2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Very interesting.  After "two days" ( one day is with the Lord as a thousand years) "will he revive us" ( revive, khaw-yaw, #2421 to live, literally or figuratively, used 14 times as "quicken").

Christ will quicken us ( Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;) for two thousand years ( two days) and on the third day ( indicative of His resurrection) He will " raise us up" ("and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" 1 Corinthians 15:52)

I believe that the OT language of eternal inheritance pertains to all in Jesus Christ. We will receive the blessings because we are in His new Covenant, the covenant of His blood. One quick example:

Isaiah 65:11-15,17,19

But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

[12]Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

[13]Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:

[14]Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

[15]And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

[17]For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

[19]And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

National Israel forsook the LORD. 

" and call His servants by another name".... Christians. 

" New heavens and a new Earth" , where Christians will dwell. 

" my people"....All in Jesus Christ, the remnant of " jews" and Gentiles. 

[Luther]

13 hours ago, Keras said:

I read all of what you wrote. It is mostly irrelevant. 

The exact Words of a thousand year Millennium to come, are not Written, but Hosea 6:2 does Prophesy it. What else could Hosea be referring to?  Did you look at the article - 7000 years of Gods Plan for Mankind?

Many Prophesise tell us that Jesus will come as a King to reign over the world. They are what fooled the Jews in the First Century.

Matthew 8:12 ...those born into the Kingdom shall be thrown out...

Jermiah 6:10 ...I will give the Land to new owners, those people who have the right to inherit it.

I could wonder if you know the truth of how the Jewish State was established?  It is a Satanic construct, founded on Communistic principals. Its fate is well Prophesied. 

 

Yes I know a little bit on how the state of Israel was created. What I try to do is remain positive that God's will is perfect. I am very saddened at the loss of innocent lives ( on either side, because life is a gift from God), having nothing to do with this conflict,  Mostly women and children. I certainly believe that God knew what was going to happen in 1948, but, if I understand the parable of the fig tree correctly, there is no blessing from God, no fruit of repentance:

Matthew 21:19

And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

[Keras]

      The Lords fiery judgement on the Middle East:

Isaiah 29:1-2 Woe to you Ariel! Ariel, the city where David settled. The years roll on and you carry out your festivals. Yet, I shall reduce Ariel to dire straits. There will be suffering and sorrow, when I make her My fire altar.

Ariel – is a pun on the Hebrew word, ‘har’el’ = the Temple burnt offering altar. In this prophecy, it refers to Jerusalem and all the State of Israel.  Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:1-14, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14

Isaiah 29:3-4 I will encompass you and besiege you with the visitation of My fiery judgement. You will be brought low, you will hide underground, your voice will whisper out of the earth.       The survivors in Jerusalem will shelter in underground bunkers. Isaiah 31:5, Isaiah 6:13, Isaiah 37:31-32

The Lord’s judgement/punishment of the nations, by fire from God’s storehouse, Deuteronomy 32:22,34-35,41-43, will be an explosion on the suns surface, Isaiah 30:26a, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation  6:12-17

Joel 2:1-11 Sound the alarm!  For the Day of the Lord’s wrath is coming. As the sun rises, a vast host will appear, the like has never been known. It advances in a devouring fire, behind is a leaping flame that leaves a desolate wasteland. Nothing can escape it, nothing can stop it and as it strikes, the earth quakes and the heavens thunder. Who can survive that dark and terrible Day?

Isaiah 29:5-8 But, your enemies will become like dust, those ruthless hordes, like blown chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come from the Lord Almighty, with earthquakes, thunder, storms and a blaze of devouring fire. All the nations warring against Mt Zion, will vanish, as a dream, like one who is hungry or thirsty; then wakes to find himself empty, so it will be with all those nations attacking Israel. Malachi 4:3

The fire judgement on the Middle East, striking ‘in an instant’, will be a Coronal Mass Ejection: a sunstrike of unprecedented magnitude and is the next prophesied event we can expect, it is the Day that will ‘come as a thief’, sudden and unexpectedly. Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 10:17 It is quite a different event to what is described about the attack and destruction of Gog or of Armageddon, both to come later, respectively.   Psalm 83:13-18, Isaiah 34:5, Isaiah 30:25-28 & 30, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18, 2 Peter 3:7

The regeneration of the Middle East:  Isaiah 35, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:13-15

Isaiah 29:17-21 In a very short time, the Land will be made prosperous again. On that Day, the deaf will hear and the blind will see and the lowly and poor will exult in the Holy One of Israel. The ruthless and evil peoples will be gone, all who practice falsehood will be cut down.  Isaiah 66:12-17, Psalms 107:1-43, Jeremiah 33:12-13

Isaiah 29:22-23 Therefore, these are the words of the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, about the House of Jacob: [now: every true Christian believer]  This is no time for you to be ashamed, no time to be frightened, for his descendants will praise My Name, when they see what I have done for them. They will stand in awe of the Holy God of Israel. Reference: REB, NIV. Some verses condensed.

Christian Israelites, all those whose names are written in the Book, Malachi 3:16-18, be they descendants of Jacob or grafted in, will be gathered into the Land, ”in a very short time” after the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath against the nations  Ezekiel 20: 34-38, Isaiah 11:11-12, Jeremiah 30:18-24, Rev 7:9                     

[tatwo]

Greetings @Luther...

I wish you wisdom in your debates with Keras...he is steadfast in his belief...no one can move him.

On 12/13/2024 at 5:28 PM, Luther said:

I believe that it's a false doctrine made popular in the last 100 years or so through the Scofield Bible.

Now...you believe that the millennial reign of Christ is a false doctrine...correct?

On 12/13/2024 at 5:28 PM, Luther said:

There are no other scriptural references to a specific time period of " a thousand years" regarding Christ's reign, only in Revelation 20.

Would there need to be another?

On 12/13/2024 at 5:28 PM, Luther said:

However, there are a multitude of verses that specifically relate to Jesus coming the second time in the resurrection at the last day. 

Of course...its Truth...it brings the end of Gods original intention for bringing creation in to being...in the first place. However it cannot end there Luther...there is so much more.

On 12/13/2024 at 5:28 PM, Luther said:

Q: If we consider Revelation 20 to be allegorical and not literal ( which I do), where else is the evidence for a literal 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ?

Only figuratively speaking huh? Not actual...ok...well there is the entire reality behind what the literal 1,000 year reign of Christ...which is not simple the Head called Yahshua of course. Have you accounted for that?

Tatwo...:) 

[Luther]

31 minutes ago, tatwo said:

Greetings @Luther...

I wish you wisdom in your debates with Keras...he is steadfast in his belief...no one can move him.

Now...you believe that the millennial reign of Christ is a false doctrine...correct?

Would there need to be another?

Of course...its Truth...it brings the end of Gods original intention for bringing creation in to being...in the first place. However it cannot end there Luther...there is so much more.

Only figuratively speaking huh? Not actual...ok...well there is the entire reality behind what the literal 1,000 year reign of Christ...which is not simple the Head called Yahshua of course. Have you accounted for that?

Tatwo...:) 

Thank you. Keras has a highly detailed website that requires time to look into, but from what I have seen, many verses that he would group into different events occurring at different times, in actuality ( and historically), have been understood to occur at one time, the last day of the world. 

The phrases "The coming of the Lord", "The day of the Lord", " The coming of the day of God" and so on, refer to the same time. Many people like to give these different phrases different  "dispensations" if you will, and the Bible won't allow it if you earnestly compare scripture with scripture. 

1 Corinthians is a great example of this. 

1 Corinthians 15:23-24,26

But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The above verse is used to illustrate that the "rapture " occurs  before the very end of the world, (after 1000 years of course). But look at the next verse:

[24]Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

" Then cometh the end"....the end of the world. Then to be sure it's the last day in view, a few verses later:

(V.26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

We know that in Revelation 20:14:

"....death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Mostly everyone agrees that the very very end of the world ( after the 1000 years of course) death is destroyed at God's final judgment. 

So how can there be enormous time intervals?

When Jesus comes for His bride, the dead in Christ and those who are alive are gathered unto Him,  then the end comes, when He delivers up the kingdom ( of His kings and priests) to God. And then death is destroyed. 

All done. From the beginning to the end of the world, that is God's salvation plan as understood by the church for many centuries. 

There are many examples of the same pattern in scripture which have not one hint of a " literal thousand year reign of Christ". Revelation 20, as with 90% of the book of Revelation, is meant to be understood allegorically, metaphorically, parabolically, spiritually. 

John 6:63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Corinthians 2:13

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Matthew 13:16-17

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

[17]For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

We are on safe grounds as believers to pray to understand hard sayings. Eventually If given an opportunity I would like to share " my take" on Revelation 20. 

[Keras]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

The phrases "The coming of the Lord", "The day of the Lord", " The coming of the day of God" and so on, refer to the same time. Many people like to give these different phrases different  "dispensations" if you will, and the Bible won't allow it if you earnestly compare scripture with scripture. 

Earnestly compare?  The Prophesies about the Day of the Lords wrath and the glorious Day of Jesus Return, are as different as chalk and cheese. 

Two Days of the Lord:

1 Thessalonians 4:16  When the Command is given, when the Archangels voice is heard, when God’s Trumpet sounds, then the Lord Himself will descend from heaven...

This prophesies the glorious Return of Jesus to gather His faithful Christian peoples to where He is; in Jerusalem.  Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Thessalonians 4:17

 

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 About dates and times, my friends, there is no need to write to you. For you know perfectly well that the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.

While other people are saying: Now we have peace and safety, then; sudden destruction will come upon them.... and there will be no escape.

 

Are these prophesies talking about the same event?  

The Book of Revelation is where we can find a sequence of the end times events.

In Revelation 6:12-17, the terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, by fire, storms, earthquakes and tsunamis is described, plus over 100 other prophesies also describe this Day of vengeance, His fury and anger against the nations.  The Lord is not seen on this Day. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4          BEFORE the Return!

 

The Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath, as the Son of Man, is the sudden, shocking and unexpected Day, a world changer, which will set the stage for the establishment of a One World Govt. Daniel 7:23-27, Revelation 13:1-8

The faithful Christian peoples, will pass safely through this literal Day of worldwide disaster. We are told what to do: Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13

 

The Day of the Lord’s glorious Return; As the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Much has to happen before we get to Revelation 19:11-13, where Jesus is described as coming in garments already splashed in blood.  Got from His previous Day of  vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 63:1-6 and Revelation 14:17-20

It will NOT be unexpected; heralded by God and the angels and NOT a surprise, as He will Return exactly 1260 days, [42 months] after Satan desecrates the Temple. Daniel 9:27b, Revelation 13:5

Jesus destroys the attacking armies at Armageddon by the Sword of His Word and chains up Satan. He just separates the nations at this time. Matthew 25:31-33

Jesus then commences His thousand year earthly reign, on David’s Throne, in the new Temple in Jerusalem.  As Isaiah 65:18-25, Zechariah 14:16-21 describe. 

 Conclusion: 1 Thess 4:16 and 1 Thess 5:1-3 are about 2 separate Days, several years apart.  Paul; like the other Prophets, doesn’t write them into their correct sequence.

The final Judgment happens after the Millennium. Matthew 25:46, Revelation 20:11-15   Then comes Eternity      These facts prove that there is a gap of a thousand years between 1 Corinthians 15:23 and verse 24