Physics versus Metaphysics

[BeyondET]

On 7/5/2024 at 10:43 PM, RV_Wizard said:

Not true.

Here is one example of dishonesty.

"Genesis 1:11 And he said: Let the earth bring forth the green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done.

... I suspect you just never knew that God said that living things were brought forth by non-living matter."

The verse says nothing about non-living matter. Appears you are being dishonest by saying something the verse doesn't say.

Some seeds can rest for thousands of years while still undergoing basic cellular metabolism. Though plants do predate seed bearing plants by 150 million years. So yes plants came first then the seed, like the bible says.

The first plants came from spores of simple moss.

Edited July 7, 2024 by BeyondET

[RV_Wizard]

10 hours ago, BeyondET said:

The verse says nothing about non-living matter. Appears you are being dishonest by saying something the verse doesn't say.

I agree with that 100%.  That was his addition.

10 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Though plants do predate seed bearing plants by 150 million years.

Actually, they were created at roughly the same time.

10 hours ago, BeyondET said:

The first plants came from spores of simple moss.

Moss is a plant also.  As plants, they are classified within the Plantae they are of the division of Bryophytes which consists of three groups; namely the Hornwort, Liverwort, and Mosses. This proves that they are true plants and not closely related to algae or fungi as some assume.  source

Science is a great tool for describing how the natural world around us functions.  It cannot study, validate or invalidate the supernatural.  We can use it to make speculations of our origin, but if our origin is supernatural then science will never find the  correct answer.  Of the 333 miracles listed in the Bible, not one of them conform to natural laws.  That is why they are miracles.

[The Barbarian]

7 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

I agree with that 100%.  That was his addition.

You think Earth is living matter?   Seriously?

"Genesis 1:11 And he said: Let the earth bring forth the green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done.

As you see, God says that non-living matter brought forth living things.  Why not just believe Him?

 

 

[RV_Wizard]

6 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

As you see, God says that non-living matter brought forth living things.  Why not just believe Him?

As you can't seem to grasp, God created all living things; plants on day three, fish and birds on day five, land dwelling animals on day six.  Evolution is a lie.  The claim that the Bible supports evolution is a lie.  The claim that the earth brought forth anything without God's direct command is a lie.  There is no common progenitor, only a common Creator.

[WilliamL]

55 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

"Genesis 1:11 And he said: Let the earth bring forth the green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done.

As you see, God says that non-living matter brought forth living things.  Why not just believe Him?

No, I can't see what you say, because it isn't there. What it says is that "And He said: Let the earth bring forth..."  So it was what God's Word commanded to be done, not what "non-living matter" did of itself.

"In commencement was the Word... All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that came to be."

So non-living matter didn't make anything, rather, Life-infused matter was used to make things. And even that matter came to be by the Word:

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Edited July 7, 2024 by WilliamL

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

No, I can't see what you say, because it isn't there. What it says is that "And He said: Let the earth bring forth..."  So it was what God's Word commanded to be done, not what "non-living matter" did of itself.

God created the Earth to bring forth life.    And so it did.  God does most things by natural means in this world.    He created it to do as He intended.

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

"In commencement was the Word... All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that came to be."

Yes.   The issue is some people don't approve of the way He did it.   You, for example, are a creature of God.   But He used natural means to create your body, too.

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

So non-living matter didn't make anything, rather, Life-infused matter was used to make things.

God didn't make earth infused with life.   He just made earth with the capability of bringing forth life.  

 

Edited July 8, 2024 by The Barbarian

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

As you can't seem to grasp, God created all living things

I see you're willing to admit that much, but you can't bring yourself to accept the way He created living things.

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Evolution is a lie. 

As you know, it's directly observed in populations all around us.   Why even bother to make a claim like that?

4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

The claim that the earth brought forth anything without God's direct command is a lie. 

The Earth did exactly what He made it to do.   

[BeyondET]

13 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Quote

 

I agree with that 100%.  That was his addition.

Actually, they were created at roughly the same time.

 

Scripture doesn't say at roughly the same time.

13 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Quote

Moss is a plant also.  As plants, they are classified within the Plantae they are of the division of Bryophytes which consists of three groups; namely the Hornwort, Liverwort, and Mosses. This proves that they are true plants and not closely related to algae or fungi as some assume.  source

 

Yes moss is part of the plant kingdom, there's a few more, algae kingdom, fungi kingdom, animal kingdom, virus kingdom all part of His creations.

13 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

 

Science is a great tool for describing how the natural world around us functions.  It cannot study, validate or invalidate the supernatural.  We can use it to make speculations of our origin, but if our origin is supernatural then science will never find the  correct answer.  Of the 333 miracles listed in the Bible, not one of them conform to natural laws.  That is why they are miracles.

You say if our origin is supernatural?. Of course it is, God created the natural world to function as it does today. There are not two sets of natural laws, only one from the beginning.

God does suspend without breaking or violating His creations. 

Edited July 8, 2024 by BeyondET

[RV_Wizard]

9 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Why even bother to make a claim like that?

We both know evolution is a lie.

9 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The Earth did exactly what He made it to do.   

The earth is  rock.  God created it, then created life from it over a six day period.  God uses the natural law that He created until He demonstrates His authority by superseding it.

[RV_Wizard]

9 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Scripture doesn't say at roughly the same time.

Over a six day period is roughly the same time in relation to thousands of years of existence.

9 hours ago, BeyondET said:

God does suspend without breaking or violating His creations. 

Making the sun stand still in the sky for a day isn't exactly conforming to natural law.