Church attendance in decline

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, PraiseHim1004 said:

Our church services are online while actually taking place (i.e., live) then as soon as finished posted permanently. 

Hi That is one way to receive "the message", but as I was made aware decades ago churches need to pay ascap  a substantial fee for use of music and so they do not generally share live online their worship in music time due to the additional fee charged.

There are some exceptions I suppose as some do put on youtube presentations by their own worship team. Yet most of those I have found are bootlegged by attendees using their own cell phone.

Does your group share of the worship online? ???

Actually every church  except one that I have been led to attend regularly is online live and has  a history of all sermons available online.

Wouldn't it have been grand  to have online back in the day? Say hear Wesley,  Spurgeon, and Gill, in their own voices with their own emphasis on what they were presenting?

Right now I am up in the woods eager to drive 25 miles to "town" to meet and greet the local church body, share a germ (shake a hand), and then feel the presence of the Holy Spirit settle upon the group as all sing praise of  our Lord and savior Yeshua with awesome enthusiasm.

The message  for which  we have prepared by reading  ahead and praying about will be from  Philippians 2, presented  word by word with some exposition, and perhaps application for today, depending on unique to us circumstances.

And yes there will be prayer, a time of opportunity to sit or rise and seek others to pray with or to seek out those that are what I call prayer warriors for comfort, as one appeals to God the Father through the son by the Holy Spirit.

Can hardly wait for us to hit the road to church! Com'n clock move that minute hand.

BTW this small town church body is gathering members, not as a program to gain membership, but I think instead by the lead of the Holy Spirit for us to be gathering. Just as I we (Spouse and I) have been so led.

Our pastors all have full time businesses, plus spend countless hours in service and in preparation each week. It is to me an amazing ability to have so much God given energy and be driven to do so. A worker is worth his wage. Yes they are compensated. In truth I do not know how much.

I did know of one that is now graduated from this place that was compensated a very decent living wage. To pastor is a really demanding position one that almost no one except perhaps another  church employee gets to see just how much time is demanded of them. And they serve well. May God bless mine, and yours too!

 

[Neighbor]

Ya know as I think more about it, it may be that institutions that churched under some doctrinal banner may be in decline, but the body of Christ Jesus growing exponentially at the same time. For there are great vast flourishings that I know of in places of this world, where missionaries that have spent multiple decades of their life planting churches using local people in those communities to learn and then teach the word of God, that are growing and now even sending their own missionaries to places like what I think of as post Christian USA.

I do think the PEW and other surveys are suspect, even as I answer some of them. The questions asked are very often posed in a way I have found  hard to accurately respond to for the question does not reflect life as I know and live it.

[PraiseHim1004]

42 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Hi That is one way to receive "the message", but as I was made aware decades ago churches need to pay ascap  a substantial fee for use of music and so they do not generally share live online their worship in music time due to the additional fee charged.

There are some exceptions I suppose as some do put on youtube presentations by their own worship team. Yet most of those I have found are bootlegged by attendees using their own cell phone.

Does your group share of the worship online? ???

Actually every church  except one that I have been led to attend regularly is online live and has  a history of all sermons available online.

Wouldn't it have been grand  to have online back in the day? Say hear Wesley,  Spurgeon, and Gill, in their own voices with their own emphasis on what they were presenting?

Right now I am up in the woods eager to drive 25 miles to "town" to meet and greet the local church body, share a germ (shake a hand), and then feel the presence of the Holy Spirit settle upon the group as all sing praise of  our Lord and savior Yeshua with awesome enthusiasm.

The message  for which  we have prepared by reading  ahead and praying about will be from  Philippians 2, presented  word by word with some exposition, and perhaps application for today, depending on unique to us circumstances.

And yes there will be prayer, a time of opportunity to sit or rise and seek others to pray with or to seek out those that are what I call prayer warriors for comfort, as one appeals to God the Father through the son by the Holy Spirit.

Can hardly wait for us to hit the road to church! Com'n clock move that minute hand.

BTW this small town church body is gathering members, not as a program to gain membership, but I think instead by the lead of the Holy Spirit for us to be gathering. Just as I we (Spouse and I) have been so led.

Our pastors all have full time businesses, plus spend countless hours in service and in preparation each week. It is to me an amazing ability to have so much God given energy and be driven to do so. A worker is worth his wage. Yes they are compensated. In truth I do not know how much.

I did know of one that is now graduated from this place that was compensated a very decent living wage. To pastor is a really demanding position one that almost no one except perhaps another  church employee gets to see just how much time is demanded of them. And they serve well. May God bless mine, and yours too!

 

Not sure what you mean by: 

Does your group share of the worship online. 

Anyway, it's live on YouTube then saved permanently there.

Now I need to get ready to go there now. 

God Bless

[Neighbor]

4 hours ago, PraiseHim1004 said:

the worship

music-praises to God in song, hymns, etc. Many a church body records the message but not the worship.

[PraiseHim1004]

8 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

music-praises to God in song, hymns, etc. Many a church body records the message but not the worship.

Everything that we see in person when it officially starts at 11:00 until it ends at 12:15 is seen live then stays permanently. 

 

[Neighbor]

Excellent! Then what is missed is the physical presence of the rest of the local church body, including the Holy Spirit, the closeness felt in seeing  fellow saints in Christ, and knowing of their progress, their health, and sharing  partaking in their friendship encouraging  each other.

I say that  after this day's gathering with the excitement for me personally of seeing return of a few that have been down injured  and or sick. Plus being welcomed back and hugged  by a few that we have missed, while receiving encouragement to gather in small group home setting  come Thursday evening. That will encourage my own reading of th eBible as we study Thursday what we have and will be engaged in the word from Philippians 2 this day and next Sunday.

Plus it is  strong encouragement to get up and trudge into town, 50 miles round trip, Thursday morning for mens early morning Bible study and sharing one with another for study  in some Old Testament inspired of God  writing that I have been missing out on.

 Praise God for the close fellowship!

[PraiseHim1004]

57 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Excellent! Then what is missed is the physical presence of the rest of the local church body, including the Holy Spirit, the closeness felt in seeing  fellow saints in Christ, and knowing of their progress, their health, and sharing  partaking in their friendship encouraging  each other.

I say that  after this day's gathering with the excitement for me personally of seeing return of a few that have been down injured  and or sick. Plus being welcomed back and hugged  by a few that we have missed, while receiving encouragement to gather in small group home setting  come Thursday evening. That will encourage my own reading of th eBible as we study Thursday what we have and will be engaged in the word from Philippians 2 this day and next Sunday.

Plus it is  strong encouragement to get up and trudge into town, 50 miles round trip, Thursday morning for mens early morning Bible study and sharing one with another for study  in some Old Testament inspired of God  writing that I have been missing out on.

 Praise God for the close fellowship!

Yes. I first started watching online. Then went in person.  Much better. Then watched after my first visit that service online. Definitely was better in person.  Plus I got to meet some people and am participating in small group Bible study and prayer meetings. 

[Sower]

 NO church is perfect, they are ALL full of sinners. I can accept that...as the 2nd chiefest  sinner. I am a part, brought to our church by my creator, and need to fulfill my part as by his design. A good soldier in the army of Christ doesn't leave his post when trouble comes, AWOL, and the enemy comes in and attacks, but I need to make a stand, In Christ, and do the right thing however led by our spirit/scripture. Every part that leaves weakens that body of believers. And,

       "Church attendance in decline"

As  baby believers 40+ yrs ago, my  wife and two very young children, we moved many miles to a new location where the economy was alive and work was available. Wife found a small church to try, we did, and been there 40+ yrs.

A few months after we started going there (This was our first/last/only church)  I knocked on the door of our new pastor's small office to ask a question. Sure, sit down. I ask what's this thing about 'tithing'? He explained the scriptures. I said thanks. My wife and I started tithing. Few months later again knocking on the door, he said sit down, I did. 

What's this thing about "before taxes"?  He explained. God should always come first. I got it. So we did it. Our kids nor family ever went hungry nor suffered want of clothing nor shelter. We had found our new spiritual family. Family.

Our needs were met by God through this local body, finding work/income, sharing typical family needs and problems, helping others as we were helped, using my craft/talents/part, laughing or crying with them, involved in one another's life. Never timed the sermon, considered the music, volume, or carpet color. The pastor was paid the average of the membership income. Money, thought tight, was NOT an ISSUE.

God has always been faithful and HE supplied all our needs. Actually, blessings beyond our needs to pass on to others. The normal Christian family.

Our church supports many foreign missionaries and a local down town 'rescue mission,' for the homeless. Our church maturing youth that were considering the ministry would regularly go to the rescue home to help and bless meals and share the gospel, giving them experience in presenting the good news. Everyone profited, God was glorified.

Due to my being raised in a dysfunctional family in my formative yrs, I knew nothing about how to be a Godly husband and father or friend, or my 'part' in our church family. I ask a bazillion questions from friends/pastor and listened to Christian radio daily.

'Focus on the Family' radio show, Dr. James Dobson, child psychologist, solid believer, was my go to radio air wave instructor for so many yrs. Stuff I never heard about that was all scriptural to look up for myself, confirming, spirit led. Every day in my truck or on the construction job site I received the word relating to parenthood and marriage.

One message Dobson gave that impacted me was about being sure our church had plenty of studies and activities to keep the youth involved. If your church had nothing for them, find a church that does. Even if you have to pick up and  move to find one, go,  it was that important.

Our youth leader was that, a leader sold out for the growing in the spirit of the youth. Besides at church, involvement in the schools and communities. Young pastors evolved eventually through those efforts. The youth at church looked forward to coming together with their friends just as the parents, a win win.

This isn't coddling the youth, but bringing them up in the ways of the Lord.

[RdJ]

2 hours ago, Sower said:

 

One message Dobson gave that impacted me was about being sure our church had plenty of studies and activities to keep the youth involved. If your church had nothing for them, find a church that does. Even if you have to pick up and  move to find one, go,  it was that important.

Our youth leader was that, a leader sold out for the growing in the spirit of the youth. Besides at church, involvement in the schools and communities. Young pastors evolved eventually through those efforts. The youth at church looked forward to coming together with their friends just as the parents, a win win.

This isn't coddling the youth, but bringing them up in the ways of the Lord.

Yes that's not an option. I'm stuck here. My ex's sister lived here and asked him to start a church here because she couldn't find one. We were divorced already. He just went to another city, puts the kids on another school, so well I had no other option than to move too and now we're stuck here. But I also feel for their friends and the neighbours. I at least always had a good church and have God. What do they have? And all those people in great big churches are in Rotterdam, The Hague and such. Loads of great churches there. They don't care about the people who live here.

Well one good thing. In America they have great ministries, great churches, people just pay tithes, Bible schools and here you just put on youtube and watch it. I have often prayed with that video from Steve Hill in Brownsville praying for the lost, so you don't have to do everything alone.

Edited May 27, 2024 by RdJ

[Indentured Servant]

On 5/26/2024 at 9:17 AM, Neighbor said:

Ya know as I think more about it, it may be that institutions that churched under some doctrinal banner may be in decline, but the body of Christ Jesus growing exponentially at the same time. For there are great vast flourishings that I know of in places of this world, where missionaries that have spent multiple decades of their life planting churches using local people in those communities to learn and then teach the word of God, that are growing and now even sending their own missionaries to places like what I think of as post Christian USA.

I do think the PEW and other surveys are suspect, even as I answer some of them. The questions asked are very often posed in a way I have found  hard to accurately respond to for the question does not reflect life as I know and live it.

I've read numerous reports over the decades that all conclude that when Christianity is illegal, and can result in imprisonment or death, it grows exponentially. China, Russian, countries in Africa, North Korea, and many others see a remarkable increase in believers when threatened with persecution.

Here, in America, we are in a decline of attendance... My take on this is that we believe in the superiority of "freedom of religion." We are taught that we've been "blessed by God."

I personally believe we will be blessed when we have that worldly freedom taken away and are physically persecuted: imprisoned, beaten, maimed, killed, and no longer are seen in public buildings, no longer allowed to be accepted, tolerated, nor work in the public sector. 

We need to stop thinking America is where we have our citizenship. We strive to make a kingdom of Christianity in this world, therefore denying the citizenship offered by God in heaven. (I don't perceive that He allows for dual citizenship...)