General- Controversial- Humor- Question?

[Neighbor]

I do not know which (See title) is the correct home category for this little statement /question/chuckle;

If I am of the mind that  Romans 8:29-30 is a correctly presented inspired of God statement then is Paul a Calvinist?

And if I find God has foreknown and predestined me personally, am I a Paulian Calvinist?

Or, since I do believe that  I could not have reasonably chosen to resist the irresistible and very specific call  from the Holy Spirit to  me to turn about  from my own sin against God, and to instead acknowledge Jesus as My Lord, God, and personal savior,  might I be the freewill Calvinist I think that I know I am? And perhaps be the world's only Freewill - Calvinist? 

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INCOMING!

[Neighbor]

 ^'...And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. 31 What then shall we say to these things?

 

[Neighbor]

I am not a robot. Nor is my intelligence artificial. Limited yes artificial  No.

No matter what I would choose  as my next move on the chess board of life God had me in check. I could choose any  of a few moves available to me,  but the moves, any and all of them, would led only to Checkmate. I had to surrender my king  and acknowledge the victory of The King.

[farouk]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

 ^'...And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. 31 What then shall we say to these things?

 

@Neighbor What an encouraging tonic is Romans 8!

[AdHoc]

On 5/30/2024 at 1:19 PM, Neighbor said:

I do not know which (See title) is the correct home category for this little statement /question/chuckle;

If I am of the mind that  Romans 8:29-30 is a correctly presented inspired of God statement then is Paul a Calvinist?

And if I find God has foreknown and predestined me personally, am I a Paulian Calvinist?

Or, since I do believe that  I could not have reasonably chosen to resist the irresistible and very specific call  from the Holy Spirit to  me to turn about  from my own sin against God, and to instead acknowledge Jesus as My Lord, God, and personal savior,  might I be the freewill Calvinist I think that I know I am? And perhaps be the world's only Freewill - Calvinist? 

 . .

 . .

 . .

INCOMING!

There is a tendency to read into words, our questions and preconceived beliefs. Calvin was surely used by the Lord, but he wrestled with the source and course of SALVATION. That is, the ESCAPE of retribution. He is known for his fearless approach and was, in the area that he functioned, very effective. But the men who followed Calvin, the men who agreed with him did not isolate this "salvation" from other salvations. Peter and company, in a boat tossed by storm, are not "saved" from perdition. They are saved from drowning. Likewise, Israel, at the waters of Mara, are saved from thirst, not the Lake of Fire.

Romans 8 is a solution to the cry of Romans 7; "Who, or What will save me from indwelling evil!!!???" It reads in Romans 7:21–24;

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

The culprit here is not some danger from God's judgment. No doubt it will end there, but the immediate problem is the indwelling law of evil. Paul dos not cry for salvation from perdition. he cries for salvation FROM HIS OWN SELF. He is miserable because his DISPOSITION is so fallen. The Lake of Fire is far away from all this. His stated problem is; "I delight to do the Law of God and am UNABLE!" Paul cries for a DISPOSITIONAL salvation - an intrinsic change of what is IN HIM.

God's solution is the LIFE OF ANOTHER. Paul ... REPLACE your LIFE! Chapter 8 says that if we can get the Law of LIFE of Christ Jesus into we have a fair fight. The Law of evil never relents, but as long as we apply the LIFE that dwells in us - not human life, but the Life of Christ, we can overcome! Verse 28-29 say that EVERY circumstance of your life, good or bad, will be used by God to CHANGE YOUR DISPOSITION. Because those who Go FOREKNEW he predestinated them to BE CONFORMED ....

At this point the Christian takes over with his/her concept and changes the wording to "predestinated to salvation". To be saved from your disposition is a salvation, but it is nothing to do with retribution. It has to do with Christ having been the leader of a pack of men and women who bring glory to God and men by being like Christ!

FOREKNEW is not predestination. Each year, Air Forces around the world select men for pilot training. After years of doing this, they KNOW what characteristics are needed in a man that will bring him to a safe and successfully qualified combat pilot. Those with mental or physical deficiencies are first routed out of the selection process. Then those who cannot process complex information sources are next exposed. Coordination, concentration under duress and attention to detail are tested brutally. Why all this suffering? Because the Air Force KNOW what it takes, and the Air Force wants to KNOW the pilot aspirant. They are about to spend $200,000 and give a man possession of a $10 million airplane. The Air Force wants FOREKNOWLEDGE. They don't care who the man is. They do not decide on prejudice. The best looking and those born into good families don't have a chance. The Senator's son is a liability if predestinated. The Chief of the Air Force has to report to a politically powerful man that the PREDESTINATION  of his son to pilot training ended in his death.

So also God. He KNOWS who will subject themselves to the rigors of the CONFORMING. Good and bad will befall the Christian (verse 28). But God will go ahead anyway because He FOREKNEW who would end up in the image of His Son. Of course, God foreknows who will end in the Lake of Fire. But that is not the context. The context is that based on knowledge of the student, the student is called. Called for what? NOT SALVATION! He is called to be a like brother to Christ IN DISPOSITION. He must undergo a CONFORMING. Is he up to it? YES; otherwise God would not have called him.

 

[Neighbor]

47 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

FOREKNEW is not predestination.

And yet the word states both foreknew and predestined. Whom? Those given to Yeshua who loses not a one given him by his father.

[Neighbor]

23 hours ago, farouk said:

@Neighbor What an encouraging tonic is Romans 8!

Yes and it is transitional to the topic of God's plan for Israel "chapters" 9 through 11. The treatise  letter to the church addressed as Romans in the Bible is an awesome study.

[Neighbor]

Plus; as to predestination, or confinement to a particular cause, for a particular purpose, what freedom does each individual have, except to be what he has been created to be, and to be used for by God?

Example :

 

"For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore has he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardens.

You will say then unto me, Why does he yet find fault? For who has resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who are you that replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus?

 Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he has called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

[AdHoc]

9 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

And yet the word states both foreknew and predestined. Whom? Those given to Yeshua who loses not a one given him by his father.

Correct ... But ... the predestination is to be changed, not to be saved.

In Sinai the people of God are commissioned to build the Tabernacle. God has ordained Acacia wood. Caleb comes across a dry riverbed with a tree. Shall he carry this tree four miles in 120°F or not. His FOREKNOWLEDGE of trees and wood counts. Aaron has not yet decided on whether to use this particular tree. There is FOREKNOWLEDGE but NO Predestination.

Raj of India will be married tomorrow. His bride is a mystery. He has never seen her before. According to custom in India, his parents have chosen her. She is predestinated to marry Raj, but neither have FOREKNOWLEDGE.

[AdHoc]

9 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Plus; as to predestination, or confinement to a particular cause, for a particular purpose, what freedom does each individual have, except to be what he has been created to be, and to be used for by God?

Example :

 

"For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore has he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardens.

You will say then unto me, Why does he yet find fault? For who has resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who are you that replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus?

 Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he has called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

I hear you, and agree, God has power over His creature. In the case of Pharaoh, do you think the hardening was so that God might have somebody to whip, or was it because Pharaoh recognized God's superiority and was about to wilt before God could reach His goal? As to the goal, answer this for yourself. In John 1:29 the Lamb is for the "sin" (singular) of the world. If Pharaoh had done the same, would the angel of death passed over his household? The Israelites were bond servants of the Egyptians. They numbered about 2 million. Do you think that half a million households, who all had a lamb inside for four days, passed the notice of the slave-masters? The Bible asks, and answers not a word, and nor should I, but one thing is sure. It was an Egyptian decision not to Believe in a Jewish Lamb until it was too late.

Can we attribute predestination to death by a God Who wanted to kill Egyptians. No. The opposite is evident. The Israelites were as much involved in idol-worship as the Egyptians were (Josh.24:14). The angel of death "passed over" Israelite houses, indicating that God was as intent on judgment of Israelites as Egyptians. And killing the firstborn of Egypt was moot for the Israelites. They were not slated to inherit Egypt - rather, Canaan. The slaughter of Egypt's firstborn looks further forward than Israel. It looks to a time when God changes the world's government and sets up a Kingdom of men who embraced the Lamb - the Millennium.