When was Satan cast out of heaven down to the earth?

[BlindSeeker]

On 6/13/2024 at 11:51 PM, DeighAnn said:

I don't think it was written in the way we speak today for a specific reason.  I believe God uses specific words for specific meanings and that should never be changed especially if it is ever to try to show and/or prove 'what God meant' OVER 'what God wrote'.  As we can see here 'after this' and 'after these things' lead us down two different paths.  Wouldn't that make God the author of confusion?  

Amen, absolutely.

[Vine Abider]

55 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

Are you having trouble finding those verses? 😊

No, just really wondered if you'd say "please." Irregardlless (as my grandpappy used to say) I will get to your request within a day or two (busy with various now).

And let me say this up front - I have the verses I'm thinking of mentally stored, which I base my thinking on . . . it's just a teaching, and I realize many don't ascribe to it. 

And isn't it wonderful that our oneness in Christ doesn't depend on such things!?

[Vine Abider]

4 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

Why? Isn't it a valid biblical question?

1 Tim 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, [God was] justified in the Spirit, [God was] seen of angels, [God] preached unto the Gentiles, [God was] believed on in the world, [God was] received up into glory.

And I love the verses that mention "mystery" because, least we get too puffed up thinking we have the answers, that word puts things in the proper framework, doesn't it.  And by His Spirit He does reveal a little bit of these things to us, but to ones existing in this temporal plane, they are still murky at best . . .

[BlindSeeker]

On 6/14/2024 at 9:14 AM, Stewardofthemystery said:

God spoke BY the prophets, how do you think the Genesis story got put on paper?

LOL - microphone hits the floor....

[Stewardofthemystery]

20 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Irregardlless (as my grandpappy used to say) I will get to your request within a day or two (busy with various now).

And let me say this up front - I have the verses I'm thinking of mentally stored, which I base my thinking on . . . it's just a teaching, and I realize many don't ascribe to it. 

And isn't it wonderful that our oneness in Christ doesn't depend on such things!?

Like my grandpappy used to say “I won’t hold my breath”🫤

[DeighAnn]

23 minutes ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

What verse of scripture says there is a 7 year tribulation, please provide.

 2852 chathak 
Strong's Concordance
A Verb
Definition: to divide, determine

And DIVIDED by the very words of GOD Himself we find them to be.  NO WHERE is it written 'the 7's' are ALL to be/have to be consecutive in time...the 'must be consecutive' requirement seems to only come from traditions and theories of men as far as I have found anyway.  What actually is written doesn't have that requirement, and since the Hebrew word GOD USED is by definition 'TO DIVIDE' and the times are themselves divided by them, then divide would follow as being closer to the truth than consecutive.  Even 'determine' doesn't bring about a demand for it to all be a single period in time. 


We also know there was a DIVISION made from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant at the time the Messiah was 'cut off'.  Even a division of TIME itself from BC to AD.  What are the chances it was written AFTER so as to purposely NOT be considered to be the 70th week.  After all, none of the rest of the things took place during that time, had they we wouldn't be living as we are today.

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people
and upon thy holy city,

to finish
3607 kala 
Strong's Concordance
Verb
Definition: to shut up, restrain, withhold

the transgression,
aka breach of trust or rebellion or rebellious or rebellious act or acts 
 
and to make an end of sins,

and to make reconciliation for iniquity,

and to bring in everlasting righteousness,

and to seal up the vision and prophecy,

and to anoint the most Holy.

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off... 

And HE WAS. 

It isn't written 'IN' the 70th week the Messiah shall be cut off, it is written 'AFTER' threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off... 

It ISN'T WRITTEN 'DURING' the 70th week, it is written 'AFTER' threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off...

that is what we should take as fact.  IF along the way with the 'here a little there a little' other things are written that PROVE it was IN/DURING the 70th week, so be it but to assume what isn't written as a truth of God and to build upon that we are warned against all the time.  The traditions of man make void the words of God 
 
17And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 18But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, He hath so fulfilled. 19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began



So, the final 7, the 7-year period of TRIBULATION the 1st place I put forth is book of Daniel

the 2nd place Mt 24 as

Jesus says in Mt 24

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 


referring to Dan 9

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

(That covered above leads us to)

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; 

(and we know the people of the time who didn't believe in GOD, the heathen, did come and destroy the city and the sanctuary... but even that was well past the end of the 70th week more proof that the LAST WEEK or 7 years has not taken place yet)


AS FOR THE END, THE 7 YEARS OF TRIB

and the end thereof shall be with a flood,

and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


Here we have to STICK with not ONLY the WHEN that is being spoken of but the WHO we are being told about.  

Three ways it is translated KJV, INTERLINEAR AND LEXICON

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

An he shall confirm a covenant with many for week one but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering and on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate and Even until the consummation and which is determined is poured out on the desolate

And he will  make a firm covenant with the many for one week but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering and on the wing of abominations one who makes desolate even until a complete destruction one that is decreed is poured out on the one who makes desolate

 

THE BEGINNING OF THE WEEK, first 1/2

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.



Middle of the week WHEN the CAUSE OF THE SACRIFICE AND OBLATION

(THAT SHOULD BE GOING TO GOD AND THE SAVIOUR) TO CEASE is revealed



3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.


4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.


AKA the last 3 1/2 years of the 7 year tribulation


6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.



9If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.


REV 17

7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Hopefully this will get you started.   

 

[Charlie744]

26 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:

LOL - microphone hits the floor....

Of course all of the Scripture is God inspired and spoken through man. However, my point was that there is a difference when God speaks directly and is captured by one of His prophets, say Moses, or where in the Gospels one of His disciples is capturing His exact words..... verses the words that have been written down in much of the OT and NT BY the prophets.

Example: Before Jesus returned to His Father, He specifically told us to obey His commandments and love Him. To me, that is quite clear, yet so many have interpreted other verses written by Paul that are quoted to say we are no longer under the law and that it has been done away with... etc.

Consequently, if we want to find whether the 10 commandments are still valid after the cross, we should consider the actual words that come out of the mouth of God as opposed to an interpretation from one of His prophets,

Which, to me, is exactly the kind of situation we might be finding ourselves in with this topic... yes, Revelation and Job discuss satan and the casting down of satan which has / is / may be interpreted as an event that takes place at the end of time or perhaps just after the cross, but if we go back to Genesis, where God is speaking telling both of them they have sinned.....and both will be removed from their respective places prior to the fall, it might just be giving us the best understanding of when the casting out or throwing down occurs.  This does not mean there will not be a casting down of satan at the end of time but that it will not be the one from heaven to earth but from earth to the fiery pit.

 

[BlindSeeker]

On 6/14/2024 at 10:53 AM, Montana Marv said:

The difficult question is; Who was created first.  Adam or the Angels.

I think the answer has to do with why God was manifested in the flesh, and partook of an earthen vessel of flesh and blood as a man, a form "lower than the angels." 

1 Pet 1:11 - [The prophets] Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Eph 1:10 - That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth; even in Him.

Eph 3:10 - To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Col 1:20 - And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

Remember when one of "there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me [John], saying, Come hither and I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife?"

And how when John "saw these things, and heard them," that he " fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed [him] these things?"

How the angel said to him, "See that you do it not, for I am your fellow servant, even of of your brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book. Worship God?"

[BlindSeeker]

On 6/14/2024 at 11:09 AM, 1to3 said:

Yes God created the angels on DAY 4 of creation when he made the stars on day gen ch1 14

Stars are referred to angels in the bible

So, when I look up in the night sky, I'm seeing angels???
What does the sun and moon represent?, and all the plants and diversity of animals?

[BlindSeeker]

On 6/14/2024 at 11:17 AM, RdJ said:

Revelation 12: in the end after 3,5 years and before the last 3,5 years.

 

You mean exactly in-between? Like in a less than a nano-second?