What Man Lost, Jesus Restored, In Person

[FreeGrace]

On 6/13/2024 at 7:24 AM, Mr. M said:

The Light Of God’s Will 

Man could no longer live by God’s Will, for the Light of Truth, found in the Logos had died. 

Man lost his connection to God, rendering him incapable 

of reflecting the image of Whom he was made

{Unfortunately, your post is unable to be properly edited for response, so my replies will be in red.

Could you explain what is meant by "God's Will....had died"?  How does God's Will die?  Is that what is meant, and if so, where in Scripture would we read those words?

And could you explain this "connection to God" is and how ic can be "lost"?

And finally, how would this "connection" that was "lost" render man incapable of reflecting the image of God?

Thanks.}

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,

and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 

Adam lost his standing as a son of God, although his seed continued as a son of man, in body soul, and spirit.

{So you believe that unregenerate and spiritually DEAD humans STILL have a body, soul and spirit.  So, the Bible says that Adam "died on the day he ate the fruit".  But you don't know what actually died?  Seems you are substituting different words with different meanings that "DIED".  Such as "God's Will died" (how is that possible?), "connection was lost", etc?}

 

 

What died in man when he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the Logos,

the Light in his heart, and the ability to do God’s Will.

{So, you claim "the Logos" DIEd when Adam ate the fruit.  Are you not aware of of the FACT that "the Logos" means "The Word" and John the beloved apostle used that word (Logos) to describe the Lord Jesus Christ?  So now please explain how Jesus Christ DIED when Adam ate the fruit and DIED spiritually.

John 1:1,2  In the beginning was the Word (Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word (LOGOS) was God. He was in the beginning with God.}

 

By the power of the Holy Spirit, a believer can now die to his own will, the Logos can shine in his heart,

to serve God in righteousness and holiness, in Spirit and in Truth

{Can you explain HOW a believer accesses the "power of the Holy Spirit"?  Seems not very many believers understand this.}

 

On 6/13/2024 at 7:24 AM, Mr. M said:

 

 

On 6/13/2024 at 7:24 AM, Mr. M said:

 

 

On 6/13/2024 at 7:24 AM, Mr. M said:

 

What died in him was the Will of God, as expressed by the Light of Truth found in the Logos. 

 

 

 

On 6/13/2024 at 7:24 AM, Mr. M said:

 

 

On 6/13/2024 at 7:24 AM, Mr. M said:

 

 

[FreeGrace]

19 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Mr. M said:

What died in man when he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was the Logos

could you say this a little more ... I don't understand what you are saying here...

Seems to me he was saying that Jesus Christ died when Adam ate the fruit.  Since John described Jesus as "the Logos" in John 1:1,2

[FreeGrace]

18 hours ago, Mr. M said:

The more accurate statement is that as a result of that act of disobedience,

man was denied access to the tree of Life...Thanks for asking!

How is that "the Logos" dying.  These things are not the same thing.  You need to clarify a lot more.

[FreeGrace]

18 hours ago, Mr. M said:

  enoob57 said:

What do you see the tree of life was?

Don't know. The point is to have access in Christ.

At least he admits what he doesn't know.  In spite of making statements that can't be found in Scripture.

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Could you explain what is meant by "God's Will....had died"?  How does God's Will die?

"Man could no longer live by God’s Will,

for the Light of Truth,

found in the Logos had died."

This does not say God's Will died, it says The Light of Truth,

which we must receive from above died. Sloppy reading on 

your part.

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

 

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

And could you explain this "connection to God" is and how ic can be "lost"?

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator

between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.

The Son of God, who is the Logos, came to earth

to restore this lost relationship between God and man.

He restored the Light of Truth, freely giving us the Spirit.

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

And finally, how would this "connection" that was "lost" render man incapable of reflecting the image of God?

Fully explained in the OP.

"you do not have His Logos abiding in you"

"because My Logos has no place in you."

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,

and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 

Sounds ungodly to me.

Jude 1:

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying,

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly 

among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed,

and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2024 by Mr. M

[Mr. M]

58 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

At least he admits what he doesn't know.  In spite of making statements that can't be found in Scripture.

You don't understand what Logos means,

if all you know is the common translation 'word'.

The Logos is not simply the word, He is necessary

for sound comprehension.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, 

that they might understand the scriptures,

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us

comprehension, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him

who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

What man lost, Jesus restored, in person...

The Light of Truth, if you can receive it.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

"Man could no longer live by God’s Will,

for the Light of Truth,

found in the Logos had died."  This does not say God's Will died, it says The Light of Truth, which we must receive from above died. Sloppy reading on your part.

No, sloppy sentence.  Yes, it does say the Logos died.  Anyway, no matter, your correction still doesn't make sense.  How does "The Light of Truth" die?  And what is "The Light of Truth" anyway?  

The Bible says that Jesus IS the Truth, so again, you are back to square one.  If you didn't mean "The Logos" died, who is Jesus Christ, you do mean "The Light of Truth" died, which also refers to Jesus Christ.

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus. The Son of God, who is the Logos, came to earth to restore this lost relationship between God and man.  He restored the Light of Truth, freely giving us the Spirit.

Fully explained in the OP.

Everyone knows that the Son of God IS the Logos.  And "The Light of Truth" is also the Son of God.  And NEITHER can die.  So you haven't answered the question about WHAT died "on the day" that Adam ate the fruit.

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

"you do not have His Logos abiding in you"

All references to "abiding" deal with fellowship with the Lord.  Believers are either IN fellowship or OUT OF fellowship.

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

"because My Logos has no place in you."

Here, Jesus is teaching that what He teaches isn't being applied to those He was speaking to.

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Sounds ungodly to me.

 

 

Tis very ung0dly.  However what does this verse have to do with the issue?  All humans have a sin nature, thanks to inheriting one from Adam.  Romans 5

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

Jude 1:

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly  among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

OK, you some verses that deal with the sinfulness of man.  You still haven't answered the question of what DIED "on the day"  that Adam ate the fruit.

[Mr. M]

18 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

No, sloppy sentence.  Yes, it does say the Logos died.  Anyway, no matter, your correction still doesn't make sense.  How does "The Light of Truth" die?  And what is "The Light of Truth" anyway?  

The Bible says that Jesus IS the Truth, so again, you are back to square one.  If you didn't mean "The Logos" died, who is Jesus Christ, you do mean "The Light of Truth" died, which also refers to Jesus Christ.

Everyone knows that the Son of God IS the Logos.  And "The Light of Truth" is also the Son of God.  And NEITHER can die.  So you haven't answered the question about WHAT died "on the day" that Adam ate the fruit.

All references to "abiding" deal with fellowship with the Lord.  Believers are either IN fellowship or OUT OF fellowship.

Here, Jesus is teaching that what He teaches isn't being applied to those He was speaking to.

Tis very ung0dly.  However what does this verse have to do with the issue?  All humans have a sin nature, thanks to inheriting one from Adam.  Romans 5

OK, you some verses that deal with the sinfulness of man.  You still haven't answered the question of what DIED "on the day"  that Adam ate the fruit.

The is no verse of the Bible saying the spirit of man died.

If man's spirit dies, he dies.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead,

so faith without works is dead also.

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us,

to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life,

and eat, and live forever; 

23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden 

to till the ground from which he was taken. 

"The man has become like one of Us"

Spiritually dead?

Man did not die because he ate from the tree of knowledge 

of good and evil, he died because he was separated from 

the tree of Life.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
And your sins have hidden His face from you,
So that He will not hear.

Romans 8:

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 

15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear,

but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

Man's spirit did not die, he was separated from God's Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:

13 These things we also speak, not in words which

man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches,

comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 

14 But the natural man does not receive the things

of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him;

nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 

By giving us the promise of the Father, the Spirit of Truth

restores what was lost when man was banished from

the tree of Life.

John 5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word

and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life,

and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

[Mr. M]

26 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Man lost his human spirit, which is what being "spiritually dead" refers to

No he did not. He lost God's Spirit in him.

Jesus restored what was lost.

Man's spirit is re-generated "in Christ"

to conform to the image of the Son.

This requires to be a living part of His Body.

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror 

the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image

from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

This is reflecting the Divine Image.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness,

who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God

in the face of Jesus Christ.

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet

you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; s

o how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 

[FreeGrace]

40 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

The is no verse of the Bible saying the spirit of man died.

You can't even explain what exactly DID die "on the day" Adam ate the fruit.  Admit it.  There were 2 deaths warned about.  The literal Hebrew says, "on the day you eat of it, DYING, you will DIE".  The "dying" refers to the process of aging that results in physical death.  The other "DIE" was "on the day" he ate the fruit.

What do you think is being referenced in the phrase "spiritual death" anyway?  It is OBVIOUSLY the human spirit.

40 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

If man's spirit dies, he dies.

Humans are born spiritually DEAD already, so their spirit cannot die.  And those who have been born AGAIN, or RE-generated, or "made alive" have a spirit that cannot die.  

Your comment indicates your confusion.

40 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

This is one of those verses that equates spirit and soul.  But Heb 4:12 clearly distinguishes the two.  Otherwise, the verse would be nonsense.  

40 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever; 

23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.

At that point, both Adam and the woman were spiritually DEAD.  If they ate of the tree of life, they would have lived in spiritual death in perpetuity.  Unable to be saved.  So God kicked them out of the garden.

40 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

 "The man has become like one of Us" Spiritually dead?

Are you actually suggesting that God can die??????????  Wow.

40 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Man did not die because he ate from the tree of knowledge

I'm sticking with what the Bible SAYS, which is "thou shall surely DIE".  But go ahead and ignore Scripture, if you must.

40 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

 of good and evil, he died because he was separated from the tree of Life.

No, that makes no sense.  He died from eating of the fruit that was forbidden.  The warning was specifically about eating.

40 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

 

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear.

This verse teaches the same principle as Psa 66:18 - If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

This is about the Lord not hearing prayer of the believer when they are out of fellowship.

40 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

Romans 8:

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 

15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear,

but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

Man's spirit did not die, he was separated from God's Spirit.

Actually, "death" is used to refer to the separation of soul and body.  James 2:26.

40 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

John 5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Right.  "passed from spiritual death to eternal life".

Or prove me wrong by showing it means something other than this.