Does God ONLY care about how much money you put in the collection plate?

[RdJ]

37 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Perhaps some of the "we" do; but really what does it matter what  anyone else does regarding such things? Is God not capable  of moving his own about as he wills, when he wills?

Does not God make even that which may be intended for evil to instead do good for those that  believe on Him as Lord? If so then  even a Ken Copeland can be used of God, in spite of what may be taught by him or  any person including such pastors/teachers.

If I hear, as at one time many did, of the church at Jerusalem giving up all things, not returning to their homes to  tend their own crops and animals, while waiting for Jesus, do I give all I have for them, or part, or none? I may be encouraged to be generous to even a group that has fallen into a folly of a sort. Today it still really doesn't matter if it is  folly or not. For I do what  the Holy Spirit alerts me is  what I am to do at the time.

God it seems has me covered, and all that are his own too. I am not led to watch over another's shoulder to see what they are led into at the time.  Their purse and it's contents are none of my business, least not if I trust God's capacity to lead them just as he leads me, in the way  He deems fit for them as he does with me.

I think some of it is true, just principles that are in the Bible and ask and you shall receive. Just don't do this:

‭James 4:3 NKJV‬
[3] You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 

https://bible.com/bible/114/jas.4.3.NKJV

We had a former homeless guy in church with 230.000 debt and we prayed and all of a sudden it was 230 and another guy had to go to jail for an around 90.000 debt and the day before after prayer zjoot it was gone.

And I had to think of this text:

[15] Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill: [16] The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; [17] but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. [18] What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice. 

https://bible.com/bible/328/php.1.15-18.NBG51

 

But if it's too bad they may do more harm than good. 

‭Romans 2:24 NKJV‬
[24] For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written. 

https://bible.com/bible/114/rom.2.24.NKJV

 

[Tristen]

3 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

Out of all the supposedly thousands of people on this forum, I’m just having a convo with basically one guy. Something is not genuine about that at all.

Am I the "one guy"? I've been "genuine" about everything I've said. In your short time here, you have demonstrated a tendency to be aggressive, sarcastic and reactive - and to take perfectly sensible comments the wrong way. That will turn people off engaging with you. 

People choose which conversations they wish to be a part of. There is nothing suspicious about that.

 

3 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

So in your opinion, it's okay for a minister to say that " he dares to think that he's equal to Jesus?"

No - I have said nothing close to this. 

 

3 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

Great, so money is god

People can make money their god - yes.

 

3 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

I'm god

Some people might use a couple of scriptures to claim they can call themselves "a god". But that is a disputable and rare semantic implication of those particular verses (as I said clearly in my first response).

 

3 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

Great, so money is god, I'm god, and I can think that I’m equal to Christ, and love money money money money. I love money I love money i love money, and there is no other god but me. 

And God doesn't care if I'm a good person or sin all the time, he only cares about how much money I tithe. 

I'm equal to Jesus, that is a good thing to think and preach, and believe.

No one here has said anything close to what you are claiming. Therefore, this argument is simply disingenuous on your part.

 

3 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

I can't wait to tell the kids that they are equal to Jesus because of their tithes and that they don’t have to believe in God or go to church, all they have to do is send in checks of 10% to the local church, and they are right with God. And it's okay for them to be lovers of money. 

Okay, I’m learning a lot of good Bible from this forum

Noone here has said anything remotely similar to this. Your sarcasm is therefore based on a lie.

 

3 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

In your estimation, it's okay for a preacher to be shouting "I love money, I love money" in church because the bible says "love of money is bad?"

Nope. You are arguing against your own imagination. Noone here has suggested this.

 

4 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

What, then, would he have to say before you believe that he is a lover OF money. Now we are playing word games that hold no water.

This question is based on a False Premise. Noone here disagreed with you that the behavior you described would be inappropriate for a Christian minister. Your comment here is a reaction to a contention that doesn't exist.

 

[Tristen]

4 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

Wow, learning so much good bible from this forum, and the prosperity gospel. 

I’m god, there is  no God but me, I'm also Equal to Jesus because of my tithes.

None of which anyone in "this forum" has actually said.

 

[Ray12614]

I refuse to tithe to online 'ministries' PERIOD. At times I do give an offering to support various online projects. Other than Worthy and one other online ministry I don't take part in them. 

I do tithe at my local church. I tithe to honor the Lord with my money, NOT so I can get any blessing because I already am blessed. I know what I am supporting and what my church is  doing with the finances they receive.

I won't touch the 'prosperity gospel' topic with a 10 foot pole. It is silly and most times talked about by 'dead sea' Christians who are stingy and always want to receive and never give to support the gospel, or other Christians, or Christian projects.

Regarding any ministry gift that mis-handles peoples tithes and offerings; God does the hiring and firing. I am not God, and that subject will be dealt with by Him (either now, or later at His Bema Seat). It is WAY beyond my pay grade so to speak to focus on that nonsense. Pray for those online ministers you don't agree with and ask God to deal with them as you cannot.

Your question is however valid to ask, and my answer is my opinion based upon scripture and my life's experiences.

 

[RdJ]

There was a guy on another forum who said Hagin warned against it, but he came up with it. 

https://graceandtruthgh.wordpress.com/2020/06/02/book-review-the-midas-touch-a-balanced-approach-to-biblical-prosperity/

 

Edited June 14, 2024 by RdJ

[Charlie1988]

16 hours ago, ExactionForce10 said:

This is a serious question, and I would like some serious theologically correct answers here, please. I;'m just trying to get all this stuff figured out. 

 

I was watching some "prosperity gospel" preacher online and that church was saying that the ONLY THING God cares about is your tithing 10%, that that is ALL you have to do to get the "favor" of God and be blessed. They were teaching that God doesn't even care if you're a good person or if you really even believe in God, that He only responds to your tithing 10%.

Is that true? For example, if you were poor yourself and were not tithing 10% is it true that God won't care about you and bring you blessings because you are not tithing 10%? When  I read the Bible, it seems to say that the poor ARE BLESSED automatically because they are poor, and that those that have are supposed to give them money so that they won't be poor anymore. 

Also, that prosperity gospel church was teaching that we are gods, and it's okay to say that you are a god as long as it's god with a little g. We are "little gods' with a little g (whatever that means?). That is what they teach. They also teach that "money is god" and it's okay to go around saying that money is god. I wonder if the people in Ukraine would say money is God when the Russian bombs paid for with money are being dropped on their town? 

Is that correct theology according to the gospels? 

 

This is a serious theology question, because they are teaching this in their prosperity gospel churches.  Is that proper theology? 

The people who support these prosperity preachers, obviously don't understand what the Bible says about giving our tithes and offerings. 

The Bible teaches that everything we have was given to us by God, so our money actually belongs to Him. The 10% mentioned in the bible is just a guide, so we should give more if we can. 

Our tithes and offerings are not given to the pastor, so he can feather his nest. The money is given back to God, so the Church can administer the funds to where they are needed most. And that's usually to orphans and widows, and other needy people. 

The Biblical idea of giving is to be a blessing to those who are struggling financially. That's the reason god instituted giving in the Church, the Church elders are supposed to use the money as wise stewards of what God has provided to take care of those who are struggling or sick. 

Everyone will receive a different reward in heaven, according to how much they gave. The amount one gives will be judged according to how much they have.

Luke 21:1-4 And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.”

Then in Acts we see that God killed a husband and wife who pledge to give but held back some money for themselves. So giving is a deadly serious issue, if we don't give God what we should, then we rob Him and He hates thieves as we see in the following passage. 

Acts 5:9-11 9 Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. 11 So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things. 

Those prosperity preachers who rob God, stand condemned before God. They are without excuse, so God will cast them into hell.   

[ExactionForce10]

12 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Perhaps some of the "we" do; but really what does it matter what  anyone else does regarding such things? Is God not capable  of moving his own about as he wills, when he wills?

 

Sure, but people who have other dogmas and who may have power because they are connected to people in power can and do impose their particular dogma onto others. It happens in the Middle East all the time. Nothing about that statement should be considered controversial because we all know it is true. 

It's true that in some countries you cannot be elected to government unless you are a certain religion and hold to certain religious belief systems.

It's also true that in some countries only the government "approved" religion is allowed to build places of worship and even pray in public. If you happen to believe in another religion, the government says you have to practice it in private. 

In some of those same countries, if you want to become a citizen, you have to convert to the state approved religion. 

You have to then wonder, how many people in those countries really don't give a hoot about those religions? Surely a good percentage of them just pretend to be that religion so that they are not persecuted. 

The Bible does say that God gave us free will to do as we chose, that's why people can sin and do terrible things if they choose to, even in the name of a religion. So God is not controlling us like puppets. People on the other hand quite often try to do that, and FORCE their particular religious dogma onto others. History shows that to be absolutely true. 

Nothing I wrote here should be considered controversial. 

[ExactionForce10]

10 hours ago, Tristen said:

Am I the "one guy"? I've been "genuine" about everything I've said. In your short time here, you have demonstrated a tendency to be aggressive, sarcastic and reactive - and to take perfectly sensible comments the wrong way. That will turn people off engaging with you. 

People choose which conversations they wish to be a part of. There is nothing suspicious about that.

 

No - I have said nothing close to this. 

 

People can make money their god - yes.

 

Some people might use a couple of scriptures to claim they can call themselves "a god". But that is a disputable and rare semantic implication of those particular verses (as I said clearly in my first response).

 

No one here has said anything close to what you are claiming. Therefore, this argument is simply disingenuous on your part.

 

Noone here has said anything remotely similar to this. Your sarcasm is therefore based on a lie.

 

Nope. You are arguing against your own imagination. Noone here has suggested this.

 

This question is based on a False Premise. Noone here disagreed with you that the behavior you described would be inappropriate for a Christian minister. Your comment here is a reaction to a contention that doesn't exist.

 

Okay, great, then you're agreeing with me that type of behavior for a minister is inappropriate. From your earlier comments, I did not get that impression, but it looks like we agree on that, great :) 

Looks like you're agreeing that some of that theology is incorrect, too. Great, then we agree on that. 

I'm not against people giving to help the poor, I'm completely for that. Don't get it twisted. But hey, if churches now are preaching that you don't have to believe in God and you don't have to be a good person to be blessed by God, and that ONLY thing you have to do is tithe, then they shouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what they get. If they are fine with it, then so am I. 

I'm not being sarcastic, either. I'm just telling you what they preach in some prosperity gospel churches now, and what some evangelical type Christians are trying to hold people to out here. If you don't like it, don't blame me for it, blame them. I'm just telling you what they say. If them preaching that kind of theology actually turns Christians into people who don't believe in God anymore and who aren't good people anymore, and who are just in it for the money honey, I guess that's just part of what comes along with that kind of theology. 

Edited June 14, 2024 by ExactionForce10

[Tristen]

1 hour ago, ExactionForce10 said:

Okay, great, then you're agreeing with me that type of behavior for a minister is inappropriate. From your earlier comments, I did not get that impression, but it looks like we agree on that, great :)

Here's my concern:

You initially stated that the minister repeatedly claimed himself to love money. I posted a scripture declaring "the love of money" to be "a root of all manner of evils".

Your "impression" was that I supported his love of money. I don't know how you can sensibly interpret my response that way. I am therefore starting to wonder if you have entered the conversation with a strong confirmation bias - that is causing you to exaggerate your complaints against this particular ministry.

But yes - I agree that promoting a love of money is unBiblical - and therefore inappropriate for a Christian minister.

 

1 hour ago, ExactionForce10 said:

if churches now are preaching that you don't have to believe in God and you don't have to be a good person to be blessed by God, and that ONLY thing you have to do is tithe, then they shouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what they get

The existence of God is self-evidently a core premise of the Christian faith. Anyone preaching otherwise is not Christian - by definition. They would be atheists. This is where I start to wonder if your "impression" is an exaggeration.

The Bible teaches us that no one is "good" in God's eyes - and that His favor is a matter of His grace, and not our own goodness.

I have seen many churches become out-of-balance with their teaching on giving, but does the ministry you are referring to really teach that the "ONLY thing you have to do is tithe"? Or is that simply your exaggerated "impression" of their teaching?

 

1 hour ago, ExactionForce10 said:

I'm not being sarcastic, either. I'm just telling you what they preach in some prosperity gospel churches now, and what some evangelical type Christians are trying to hold people to out here.

You said:

"Great, so money is god, I'm god, and I can think that I’m equal to Christ, and love money money money money. I love money I love money i love money, and there is no other god but me. 

And God doesn't care if I'm a good person or sin all the time, he only cares about how much money I tithe. 

I'm equal to Jesus, that is a good thing to think and preach, and believe.

I can't wait to tell the kids that they are equal to Jesus because of their tithes and that they don’t have to believe in God or go to church, all they have to do is send in checks of 10% to the local church, and they are right with God. And it's okay for them to be lovers of money. 

Okay, I’m learning a lot of good Bible from this forum"

Unless you genuinely consider these beliefs to be "great" - and sincerely "can't wait to tell the kids that they are equal to Jesus because of their tithes" etc. - and being genuine when you say you are "learning a lot of good Bible from this forum", then this whole statement is obviously, self-evidently "sarcastic".

 

1 hour ago, ExactionForce10 said:

If you don't like it, don't blame me for it, blame them

It's not about "blame" - you were obviously denigrating the beliefs through sarcasm.

 

1 hour ago, ExactionForce10 said:

I'm just telling you what they say

This is dishonest. You were clearly being "sarcastic".

 

 

[Debp]

21 hours ago, Debp said:

Of course we don't believe in the Prosperity Gospel.

Can you please tell us the name of the preacher you are talking about?   So we can view at least one of his videos.  Thanks.

@ExactionForce10 You are making a lot of claims about a particular preacher saying outlandish things.   

Can you please provide a video of this preacher?   Thanks.