What is Hell?

[charles beanland]

I will try this again as I seek input from others here.

          Is Hell Holy? By that I mean to ask, What is Hell for our human minds to understand?

Simply put, I consider the bible a point of Judicial court records for the most part. In that, we have a judge, a judgement seat, and God’s court room with Jesus being the presiding judge over all of mankind. We are the accused; and are called that  by the prosecting attorney named Lucifer (Who is right to do so, I might add). With either Jesus himself as our attorney /or/ our judge - leaving us as full blown criminals.

          We face either punishment or reward – not by our action/works, but by our decission of who we follow for eternity. And as God see that it is to benefit to understand things of the Spiritual nature in earthly imagery I am drawn to know (As much as one can), the idea of Hell on this side of existance.

If hell is not Holy then are we to understand that it is UN-Holy? But did not God create Hell and if so how could he create unholiness? Yet.

If Hell is Holy who is in charge of it? The Hebrew historian “Josephas” speaks of the first century Priest teaching God’s angelic host rule over hell. Our western society of America teaches hell is {Evil, ruled by Satan and, if anything is truly horrible that is must have been born out of hell, (I e) ex-wife from hell, bat out of hell etc.}

We see in the book of Revelation that earth will be burned up and cracked in two, and hell will be emptied, and all those from there will stand before God at the great white throne judgment of Christ. Please correct me here, But I now see hell as a local city jail cell that holds the criminal until they are transferred to the super max penitentiary of the Lake of Fire. It is neither Holy nor unholy but Neutral in its existence.

I welcome your thoughts in the matter.

C. P. Beanland

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, charles beanland said:

I will try this again as I seek input from others here.

          Is Hell Holy? By that I mean to ask, What is Hell for our human minds to understand?

Simply put, I consider the bible a point of Judicial court records for the most part. In that, we have a judge, a judgement seat, and God’s court room with Jesus being the presiding judge over all of mankind. We are the accused; and are called that  by the prosecting attorney named Lucifer (Who is right to do so, I might add). With either Jesus himself as our attorney /or/ our judge - leaving us as full blown criminals.

          We face either punishment or reward – not by our action/works, but by our decission of who we follow for eternity. And as God see that it is to benefit to understand things of the Spiritual nature in earthly imagery I am drawn to know (As much as one can), the idea of Hell on this side of existance.

If hell is not Holy then are we to understand that it is UN-Holy? But did not God create Hell and if so how could he create unholiness? Yet.

If Hell is Holy who is in charge of it? The Hebrew historian “Josephas” speaks of the first century Priest teaching God’s angelic host rule over hell. Our western society of America teaches hell is {Evil, ruled by Satan and, if anything is truly horrible that is must have been born out of hell, (I e) ex-wife from hell, bat out of hell etc.}

We see in the book of Revelation that earth will be burned up and cracked in two, and hell will be emptied, and all those from there will stand before God at the great white throne judgment of Christ. Please correct me here, But I now see hell as a local city jail cell that holds the criminal until they are transferred to the super max penitentiary of the Lake of Fire. It is neither Holy nor unholy but Neutral in its existence.

I welcome your thoughts in the matter.

C. P. Beanland

Yes, that is one way our human mind can understand and articulate hell. Hell is a temporary holding cell (H. Sheol – G. Hades), charged with something (without Christ), awaiting the eternal Great White Throne trial and judgment. The evidence being presented (the books opened, plural), opening the Book of Life to see if your name is written therein. If not written in the Book of Life, eternal condemnation in the Lake of Fire (prison) is the only sentence. My mind cannot comprehend the length of eternity.

Levels of pain and suffering: Today, in the flesh, both Christians and the heathen receive the blessings of God. Everything good flows from God Almighty, but there is nothing good in the absence and separation from God. Hell and the Lake of Fire is the total separation from God.

Those standing before the Great White Throne having another book opened, their works. They will be judged according to their works. Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [The second death]

I think of it like Hitler vs. Mother Teresa: which one will receive a harsher sentence judged by their works? To my hermeneutics, Satan does not rule hell; the Kingdom of God rules over everything physical and spiritual. I view hell as a place of total isolation, as well as pain and suffering. According to the parable of the rich man, they will still retain all five of their senses and memories, whereas their worm dieth not.

Our Lord is a legalist, as implied from Genesis through Revelation.

Quote: “Is Hell Holy? By that I mean to ask, What is Hell for our human minds to understand?”

Can you clarify your question on that?

New Testament

HOLY ~ hagios (ἅγιος) 40 (41) 233×, adj., holy, sacred, pure; devoted, consecrated, dedicated; n., sacred things; sacred places^[1]

 

 

---

^[1] Mark L. Strauss and Tremper Longman III, eds., “Holy, Holiness, Make Holy,” The Baker Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books: A Division of Baker Publishing Group, 2023), 410.

[Stewardofthemystery]

2 hours ago, charles beanland said:

If hell is not Holy then are we to understand that it is UN-Holy? But did not God create Hell and if so how could he create unholiness? 

God created all things, even hell.  Even though God can create evil and darkness, it does not mean that God is evil.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

2 hours ago, charles beanland said:

If Hell is Holy who is in charge of it? The Hebrew historian “Josephas” speaks of the first century Priest teaching God’s angelic host rule over hell. Our western society of America teaches hell is {Evil, ruled by Satan and, if anything is truly horrible that is must have been born out of hell, (I e) ex-wife from hell, bat out of hell etc.}

We see in the book of Revelation that earth will be burned up and cracked in two, and hell will be emptied, and all those from there will stand before God at the great white throne judgment of Christ. Please correct me here, But I now see hell as a local city jail cell that holds the criminal until they are transferred to the super max penitentiary of the Lake of Fire. It is neither Holy nor unholy but Neutral in its existence.

I welcome your thoughts in the matter.

C. P. Beanland

Hell is the place of the “dead”, God is not the God of the dead, but of the “living”

Mark 12:27

He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

 

Though God has “the keys of hell” the angel called “Destruction”reigns over hell as King.

 

Revelation 9:11

And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2024 by Stewardofthemystery

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, charles beanland said:

I will try this again as I seek input from others here.

          Is Hell Holy? By that I mean to ask, What is Hell for our human minds to understand?

Simply put, I consider the bible a point of Judicial court records for the most part. In that, we have a judge, a judgement seat, and God’s court room with Jesus being the presiding judge over all of mankind. We are the accused; and are called that  by the prosecting attorney named Lucifer (Who is right to do so, I might add). With either Jesus himself as our attorney /or/ our judge - leaving us as full blown criminals.

          We face either punishment or reward – not by our action/works, but by our decission of who we follow for eternity. And as God see that it is to benefit to understand things of the Spiritual nature in earthly imagery I am drawn to know (As much as one can), the idea of Hell on this side of existance.

If hell is not Holy then are we to understand that it is UN-Holy? But did not God create Hell and if so how could he create unholiness? Yet.

If Hell is Holy who is in charge of it? The Hebrew historian “Josephas” speaks of the first century Priest teaching God’s angelic host rule over hell. Our western society of America teaches hell is {Evil, ruled by Satan and, if anything is truly horrible that is must have been born out of hell, (I e) ex-wife from hell, bat out of hell etc.}

We see in the book of Revelation that earth will be burned up and cracked in two, and hell will be emptied, and all those from there will stand before God at the great white throne judgment of Christ. Please correct me here, But I now see hell as a local city jail cell that holds the criminal until they are transferred to the super max penitentiary of the Lake of Fire. It is neither Holy nor unholy but Neutral in its existence.

I welcome your thoughts in the matter.

C. P. Beanland

Hi I was going to type a response but I find in starting out that there is so much a difference between your present understandings and mine that I would end up writing a thesis. So may I suggest you simply seek out Got Questions by asking of it "What Does The Bible say about hell?"

[Mr. M]

2 hours ago, charles beanland said:

I will try this again as I seek input from others here.

          Is Hell Holy? By that I mean to ask, What is Hell for our human minds to understand?

Simply put, I consider the bible a point of Judicial court records for the most part. In that, we have a judge, a judgement seat, and God’s court room with Jesus being the presiding judge over all of mankind. We are the accused; and are called that  by the prosecting attorney named Lucifer (Who is right to do so, I might add). With either Jesus himself as our attorney /or/ our judge - leaving us as full blown criminals.

          We face either punishment or reward – not by our action/works, but by our decission of who we follow for eternity. And as God see that it is to benefit to understand things of the Spiritual nature in earthly imagery I am drawn to know (As much as one can), the idea of Hell on this side of existance.

If hell is not Holy then are we to understand that it is UN-Holy? But did not God create Hell and if so how could he create unholiness? Yet.

If Hell is Holy who is in charge of it? The Hebrew historian “Josephas” speaks of the first century Priest teaching God’s angelic host rule over hell. Our western society of America teaches hell is {Evil, ruled by Satan and, if anything is truly horrible that is must have been born out of hell, (I e) ex-wife from hell, bat out of hell etc.}

We see in the book of Revelation that earth will be burned up and cracked in two, and hell will be emptied, and all those from there will stand before God at the great white throne judgment of Christ. Please correct me here, But I now see hell as a local city jail cell that holds the criminal until they are transferred to the super max penitentiary of the Lake of Fire. It is neither Holy nor unholy but Neutral in its existence.

I welcome your thoughts in the matter.

C. P. Beanland

What is often overlooked is that we have a direct connection

by which we bring the flames of hell directly into our world.

James 3:

5 Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things.

See how great a forest a little fire kindles! 

6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity.

The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body,

and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.

[AnOrangeCat]

I agree with much of what Dennis said. As you noted Hell has become equated with the lake of fire in modern thinking and is often what people mean when they use the term, but on analysis the Bible seems to indicate two separate things. In Revelation 20:14 Hell itself is thrown into the lake of fire. Another modern thinking thing Dennis touched on is this:

24 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

To my hermeneutics, Satan does not rule hell; the Kingdom of God rules over everything physical and spiritual.

It's probably thanks to fanciful works like Milton's Paradise Lost that we have the notion of Satan ruling Hell, but Revelation tells us that he's going into the lake of fire to be tormented "day and night forever and ever". Clearly not a place he holds rulership over.

As I see it the lake of fire is a thoroughly undesirable place to be and permanent in nature. Obviously fire terminology is used in describing it. But many of its specifics are going to be mysteries to us until God makes them known to us. Are there degrees of punishment? What are they? How about annihilation vs eternal conscious torment? We can debate elements of it, but these debates have been raging since before any of us were born and will continue to be debated for long after. All I can personally say is that when God unveils the mystery it will be fair and just, as that's His nature.

As for whether or not it's holy, at first glance it might not seem so but as I understand things the ancient Hebrew word for holy carries a notion of being set apart or reserved. It could be applicable in that sense, combined with being a manifestation of God's sense of justice. That said it's part of my policy not to stake my theology on certain things, eternal punishment being one of them. I find it very interesting for sure, but I find that its nature is under the umbrella of what Paul called disputable matters.

[Mr. M]

7 minutes ago, AnOrangeCat said:

I agree with much of what Dennis said. As you noted Hell has become equated with the lake of fire in modern thinking and is often what people mean when they use the term, but on analysis the Bible seems to indicate two separate things. In Revelation 20:14 Hell itself is thrown into the lake of fire. Another modern thinking thing Dennis touched on is this:

It's probably thanks to fanciful works like Milton's Paradise Lost that we have the notion of Satan ruling Hell, but Revelation tells us that he's going into the lake of fire to be tormented "day and night forever and ever". Clearly not a place he holds rulership over.

As I see it the lake of fire is a thoroughly undesirable place to be and permanent in nature. Obviously fire terminology is used in describing it. But many of its specifics are going to be mysteries to us until God makes them known to us. Are there degrees of punishment? What are they? How about annihilation vs eternal conscious torment? We can debate elements of it, but these debates have been raging since before any of us were born and will continue to be debated for long after. All I can personally say is that when God unveils the mystery it will be fair and just, as that's His nature.

As for whether or not it's holy, at first glance it might not seem so but as I understand things the ancient Hebrew word for holy carries a notion of being set apart or reserved. It could be applicable in that sense, combined with being a manifestation of God's sense of justice. That said it's part of my policy not to stake my theology on certain things, eternal punishment being one of them. I find it very interesting for sure, but I find that its nature is under the umbrella of what Paul called disputable matters.

The fire of God's judgment can render something "hallowed".

Numbers 16:35 And a fire came out from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering incense.

36 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 

37 “Tell Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, to pick up the censers out of the blaze,

for they are holy, and scatter the fire some distance away. 

38 The censers of these men who sinned against their own souls,

let them be made into hammered plates as a covering for the altar.

Because they presented them before the Lord, therefore they are holy; 

and they shall be a sign to the children of Israel.” 

39 So Eleazar the priest took the bronze censers, which those who were burned up

had presented, and they were hammered out as a covering on the altar, 

40 to be a memorial to the children of Israel that no outsider,

who is not a descendant of Aaron, should come near to offer incense before the Lord,

that he might not become like Korah and his companions,

just as the Lord had said to him through Moses.

[charles beanland]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Yes, that is one way our human mind can understand and articulate hell. Hell is a temporary holding cell (H. Sheol – G. Hades), charged with something (without Christ), awaiting the eternal Great White Throne trial and judgment. The evidence being presented (the books opened, plural), opening the Book of Life to see if your name is written therein. If not written in the Book of Life, eternal condemnation in the Lake of Fire (prison) is the only sentence. My mind cannot comprehend the length of eternity.

Levels of pain and suffering: Today, in the flesh, both Christians and the heathen receive the blessings of God. Everything good flows from God Almighty, but there is nothing good in the absence and separation from God. Hell and the Lake of Fire is the total separation from God.

Those standing before the Great White Throne having another book opened, their works. They will be judged according to their works. Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. [The second death]

I think of it like Hitler vs. Mother Teresa: which one will receive a harsher sentence judged by their works? To my hermeneutics, Satan does not rule hell; the Kingdom of God rules over everything physical and spiritual. I view hell as a place of total isolation, as well as pain and suffering. According to the parable of the rich man, they will still retain all five of their senses and memories, whereas their worm dieth not.

Our Lord is a legalist, as implied from Genesis through Revelation.

Quote: “Is Hell Holy? By that I mean to ask, What is Hell for our human minds to understand?”

Can you clarify your question on that?

New Testament

HOLY ~ hagios (ἅγιος) 40 (41) 233×, adj., holy, sacred, pure; devoted, consecrated, dedicated; n., sacred things; sacred places^[1]

 

 

---

^[1] Mark L. Strauss and Tremper Longman III, eds., “Holy, Holiness, Make Holy,” The Baker Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books: A Division of Baker Publishing Group, 2023), 410.

Can you clarify your question on that?

I guess what I am getting at or leaning toward is the idea of, the America idea of the two lines of reasoning (Satan rules so he get to punish us and it is God who rules hell and it is HE that punishes us). That leads me to ask if God - then Hell must be Holy in nature.

Who has ever heard of a Holy Hell as a place of torment? I guess I am fighting my upbringing and working though this for clarity. 

This though came to me as I was writing a story. The story allow for description of hell and the purpose of hell. To express both ides here I have point of view from the inquirer and the person being punished. I DO NOT want to come off as a religious nut job, but a well thought out, and well researched "with literary lic. description" view of hell. 

C. P. Beanland

[charles beanland]

2 hours ago, Mr. M said:

The fire of God's judgment can render something "hallowed".

Numbers 16:35 And a fire came out from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering incense.

36 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 

37 “Tell Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, to pick up the censers out of the blaze,

for they are holy, and scatter the fire some distance away. 

38 The censers of these men who sinned against their own souls,

let them be made into hammered plates as a covering for the altar.

Because they presented them before the Lord, therefore they are holy; 

and they shall be a sign to the children of Israel.” 

39 So Eleazar the priest took the bronze censers, which those who were burned up

had presented, and they were hammered out as a covering on the altar, 

40 to be a memorial to the children of Israel that no outsider,

who is not a descendant of Aaron, should come near to offer incense before the Lord,

that he might not become like Korah and his companions,

just as the Lord had said to him through Moses.

Mr. M

You cite 

James 3: 5&6 and it gives me a moment of pause. Now you cite the Old Testament Number 16:35. I have to say I must digest this for a bit. I know and understand it will not be a full clear vision but it is something to ponder. I consider Jesus and if it was hard for God in the flesh to describe hell for us then I am a very poor student trying too better what he said about it. 

And when I say "hard", what I mean is like the following. An adult telling a five year old why the laws of Physics determines why he can't jump off the roof and fly. He is force to use little words so the little intelligence can accept it and trust the adult in it. 

C. P. Beanland

 

[charles beanland]

1 hour ago, Stewardofthemystery said:

God created all things, even hell.  Even though God can create evil and darkness, it does not mean that God is evil.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Hell is the place of the “dead”, God is not the God of the dead, but of the “living”

Mark 12:27

He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

 

Though God has “the keys of hell” the angel called “Destruction”reigns over hell as King.

 

Revelation 9:11

And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

 

 

With respect,

I have never equated "The Abyss", as the same as Hell. 

In the rich man and Lazarus story, we see the two places in hell separated as paradise and punishment for the dead. Later on we see Jesus confront the Gardnerian Demonic and they begged him not to send them into the Abyss. In your ref. of Revelation 9:11 The angle is sent to the abyss to release said creatures who are ruled over by the King of the Abyss to torment those on the earth.

It would seem to me that the Abyss is a separate place reserved for those other than us. Hell is never spoken of as having a King.

C. P. Beanland