Your Works Demonstrate That You Are Born From Above

[Mr. M]

 

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you?

Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.

[Sower]

4 hours ago, Mr. M said:

 

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you?

Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.

               "Who is wise and understanding among you? "

 

                               "The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life;

                                and he that winneth souls is wise"

Thanks Mr M....

[Mr. M]

16 minutes ago, Sower said:

               "Who is wise and understanding among you? "

 

                               "The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life;

                                and he that winneth souls is wise"

Thanks Mr M....

Here is one from the negative perspective

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not class ourselves or compare ourselves

with those who commend themselves. But they, measuring themselves

by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. 

"this too is vanity" 

[Cntrysner]

Can an unregenerate preacher that is sharing God’s word have an impact on a listener that is seeking salvation? His work would be considered good but it does not demonstrate he is born from above, it was God working through him. God can use the saved and the unsaved to do His good pleasure.
 

[Hopefully]

1 hour ago, Cntrysner said:

Can an unregenerate preacher that is sharing God’s word have an impact on a listener that is seeking salvation?

Hi nice to meet you Cntrysner. I think an unregenerate preacher might be considered a hypocrite and then the work is not good.

“You are a hypocrite! First, take the wood out of your own eye. Then you will see clearly to get the dust out of your friend’s eye.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭5‬ ‭ERV‬‬

In the passage above the speaker was probably giving good advice, but was instructed to work on themselves first.

I think God uses the unsaved as well but not as far as them being a preacher.

The Bible instructs on how to select a preacher it’s not supposed to be just anybody. 
 

Thank you for reading this.

[Mr. M]

On 8/19/2024 at 10:01 AM, Mr. M said:

 

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you?

Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.

14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, 

do not boast and lie against the truth. 

15 This wisdom does not descend from above,

but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 

16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, 

confusion and every evil thing are there. 

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure,

then peaceable,

gentle,

willing to yield,

full of mercy

and good fruits, 

without partiality 

and without hypocrisy.

You must be born from above, to receive from above.

Edited August 20, 2024 by Mr. M

[FreeGrace]

On 8/19/2024 at 1:01 PM, Mr. M said:

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you?

Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.

This does not support the title of this thread.  It is talking about motive when doing works.  Humility rather than "look at how good I am" kind of thing.

And, there are many very moral unbelievers in the world, even including atheists.  And many of the non atheists do those works in the hope that they will "go to heaven".  They will be sadly mistaken.

So, no, one's works do not necessarily prove that one is "born from above".

The point of James 2:14-26 (esp v.18) is that the only way to demonstrate one's faith is to have works.  

Moral unbelievers need the gospel as much as the immoral ones.

[Cntrysner]

Jas 2:24  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 

Rom 4:1  What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 
Rom 4:2  For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 
Rom 4:3  For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 
Rom 4:4  Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 
Rom 4:5  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 

@Mr. M said... "Your Works Demonstrate That You Are Born From Above"

With that being said it would lead one to believe works are required for salvation thus born again which is contrary to scripture. A man may boast (glory) in his works before men but God is indebted to no man. Man’s righteous works are tainted with sin and unacceptable to God (Isa 64:6), our testimony must be God working in us not our own work. One must never say their works demonstrate (prove) salvation because it robs God of His glory. The only man justified by works before God was Christ Jesus and we must have His righteousness to be justified.

Isa 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 

2Co 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

[farouk]

On 8/20/2024 at 7:38 AM, Hopefully said:

Hi nice to meet you Cntrysner. I think an unregenerate preacher might be considered a hypocrite and then the work is not good.

“You are a hypocrite! First, take the wood out of your own eye. Then you will see clearly to get the dust out of your friend’s eye.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭5‬ ‭ERV‬‬

In the passage above the speaker was probably giving good advice, but was instructed to work on themselves first.

I think God uses the unsaved as well but not as far as them being a preacher.

The Bible instructs on how to select a preacher it’s not supposed to be just anybody. 
 

Thank you for reading this.

Hi @Hopefully Romans 1.18 refers to those 'who hold the truth in unrighteousness'.

[FreeGrace]

21 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Jas 2:24  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 

This is a most misunderstood verse.  Since James had already made the point in v.18 that the ONLY WAY to demonstrate one's faith was by works, in v.24 he was referring to justification in the eyes of others.  iow, when others see that the believer's works demonstrate their faith, they are seen as honest, non-hypocritical, etc.

Consider these verses:

Rom 12:17 - Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.

Rom 14:18 - because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

2 Cor 8:21 - For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of man.

1 Thess 4:12 - so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.

21 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

 

@Mr. M said... "Your Works Demonstrate That You Are Born From Above"

With that being said it would lead one to believe works are required for salvation thus born again which is contrary to scripture. A man may boast (glory) in his works before men but God is indebted to no man. Man’s righteous works are tainted with sin and unacceptable to God (Isa 64:6), our testimony must be God working in us not our own work. One must never say their works demonstrate (prove) salvation because it robs God of His glory. The only man justified by works before God was Christ Jesus and we must have His righteousness to be justified.

Amen!

21 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Isa 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 

2Co 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isa 64:6 is very important.  It is talking about man's own morality.  Even unbelievers can live quite moral lives.  They obey all traffic laws, are kind to others, etc.  But this is behavior coming from their SINFUL nature.  Proving that sinful man can choose to do good. 

However, it is human good, which stinks like filthy rags, or used menstral rags, literally in the Hebrew.