Sheep/Goats Judgement not same as Great White Throne?

[Vine Abider]

A local brother gave a message today on the sheep/goat judgement starting in Matthew 25:21.  He shared that this judgement takes place shortly after the judgement seat of Christ (Bema judgement of believers) and is for those nonbelievers who survive the great tribulation period.  He said that this is diferent than the great white throne judgement in Revelation 20.

I had not realized that the sheep/goat judgement was different than the great white throne.  But now, upon closer reading, I see that the one in Matthew 25 states, "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.  All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."  There is no mention of the devil and other entity judgement here, as is stated around the final, great white throne judgement.  And that Rev 20 judgement occurs after the thousand year reign (see 20:1-6).

So it appears the Matthew 25 judgement is to determine who (from the nations) will populate the earth during the millennial kingdom. That is, it will be those who showed kindness to even one of the least of Christ's brethren. (see Matt 25:36 & 43)  (BTW - it's amazing that Christ is setting the inclusion bar pretty low here - "even to ONE the LEAST of my brethren"!  What mercy!)

In any case, I'm rather taken back I didn't notice the distinction before, between the judgements in Matt 25 and Rev 20!

How do others see this?

[Marilyn C]

41 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

A local brother gave a message today on the sheep/goat judgement starting in Matthew 25:21.  He shared that this judgement takes place shortly after the judgement seat of Christ (Bema judgement of believers) and is for those nonbelievers who survive the great tribulation period.  He said that this is diferent than the great white throne judgement in Revelation 20.

I had not realized that the sheep/goat judgement was different than the great white throne.  But now, upon closer reading, I see that the one in Matthew 25 states, "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.  All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."  There is no mention of the devil and other entity judgement here, as is stated around the final, great white throne judgement.  And that Rev 20 judgement occurs after the thousand year reign (see 20:1-6).

So it appears the Matthew 25 judgement is to determine who (from the nations) will populate the earth during the millennial kingdom. That is, it will be those who showed kindness to even one of the least of Christ's brethren. (see Matt 25:36 & 43)  (BTW - it's amazing that Christ is setting the inclusion bar pretty low here - "even to ONE the LEAST of my brethren"!  What mercy!)

In any case, I'm rather taken back I didn't notice the distinction before, between the judgements in Matt 25 and Rev 20!

How do others see this?

I agree VA, God`s hand of mercy is always outstretched in every part of life on earth. In the trib, all the people would know about is what the 144,000 Jews would be sharing of the coming Messiah. 

We, as the Body of Christ really don`t always appreciate what a wondrous gift we have of the Holy Spirit within and knowing the Lord as Head of the Body. 

In the trib, the Holy Spirit will not be in people but still drawing them to God. It is a time for the completion of Israel`s chastisement and for the wrath of God poured out on the rebellious. 

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

A local brother gave a message today on the sheep/goat judgement starting in Matthew 25:21.  He shared that this judgement takes place shortly after the judgement seat of Christ (Bema judgement of believers) and is for those nonbelievers who survive the great tribulation period.  He said that this is diferent than the great white throne judgement in Revelation 20.

I had not realized that the sheep/goat judgement was different than the great white throne.  But now, upon closer reading, I see that the one in Matthew 25 states, "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.  All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."  There is no mention of the devil and other entity judgement here, as is stated around the final, great white throne judgement.  And that Rev 20 judgement occurs after the thousand year reign (see 20:1-6).

So it appears the Matthew 25 judgement is to determine who (from the nations) will populate the earth during the millennial kingdom. That is, it will be those who showed kindness to even one of the least of Christ's brethren. (see Matt 25:36 & 43)  (BTW - it's amazing that Christ is setting the inclusion bar pretty low here - "even to ONE the LEAST of my brethren"!  What mercy!)

In any case, I'm rather taken back I didn't notice the distinction before, between the judgements in Matt 25 and Rev 20!

How do others see this?

The sheep/goat judgment comes at the end of the 7 year tribulation before the 1000 year millennium Matthew 25:31-46.

The sheep are those who are saved and they will go into the 1000 year millennium and the goats are those who are not saved

and will go to hades until they are judged at the Great White Throne judgment.

Totally different judgment than the Great White Throne Judgment which comes at the end of the

1000 year millennium and is judging the unsaved who will go into hell for an eternity.

 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Yeah it seems there will be two judgements one at his immediate return and one after the 1000yr reign of Messiah also Rev 20 speaks of two judgments on at his return and one after 1000 years of Messiah:

One for when He immediately returns (Sheep and the Goats Judgement):  This seems to be for those people and nations who are alive at his return.  The term 'least of my brethren' can be interpreted two ways or maybe both:  Israel and/or Christians.   Brethren can be interpreted as kinsman, countrymen, national ancestry.  I believe the parable of the wheat and tares is speaking of the this judgement also, where he separates the wheat from the tares at his coming.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: ... And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me. - Mat 25:31-32, 40 KJV

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. - Mat 13:41-43 KJV

The Second Judgement is after the 1000 years for all that had previously died.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. - Rev 20:11-15 

Edited December 2, 2024 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Vine Abider]

15 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The sheep/goat judgment comes at the end of the 7 year tribulation before the 1000 year millennium Matthew 25:31-46.

The sheep are those who are saved and they will go into the 1000 year millennium and the goats are those who are not saved

and will go to hades until they are judged at the Great White Throne judgment.

Totally different judgment than the Great White Throne Judgment which comes at the end of the

1000 year millennium and is judging the unsaved who will go into hell for an eternity.

 

 

13 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Yeah it seems there will be two judgements one at his immediate return and one after the 1000yr reign of Messiah also Rev 20 speaks of two judgments:

One for when He immediately returns (Sheep and the Goats Judgement):  This seems to be for those people and nations who are still living at his return.  I believe the parable of the wheat and tares is speaking of this judgement also, where he separates the wheat from the tares at his coming.  The term 'least of my brethren' can be interpreted two ways or maybe both:  Israel and/or Christians.  Brethren can be interpreted as kinsman, countrymen, national ancestry.  God is going to Judge these nations on how they treated His Brethren: Israel and/or Christians. 

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: ... And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me. - Mat 25:31-32, 40 

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend [sin or cause to sin], and them which do iniquity [lawlessness]; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. - Mat 13:41-43 

The Second Judgement is after the 1000 years for all those who have died and were not apart of the first resurrection.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. - Rev 20:11-15

That's what I'm seeing too - that the sheep/goats judgment (Matt 25) is before the thousand year reign, and the great white throne (Rev 20) is the final, all-encompassing judgement after the kingdom reign.

But then there is also the Judgement Seat (Bema) of Christ for believers, to reward their works. This would have to be before the thousand year reign. 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

But then there is also the Judgement Seat (Bema) of Christ for believers, to reward their works. This would have to be before the thousand year reign. 

I think the both Judgement are rewards.  The term rewards means good or bad.  Some are awarded eternal life and some awarded with eternal death.  Render to everyman according his works. 

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. - Mat 16:27 

For we must all be manifested before the judgment-seat [bema] of Christ, that each may receive the things [done] in the body, according to those he has done, whether [it be] good or evil. - 2Co 5:10 

μισθός misthós, mis-thos'; apparently a primary word; pay for service (literally or figuratively), good or bad:—hire, reward, wages.

The Judgement-seat 'bema' is referred to as tribunal court where a judge seats to make a judgement and to declare if someone is innocent or guilty of their stated crimes.

But Paul said, I am standing before the judgment-seat [bema] of Caesar, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou also very well knowest. - Act 25:10 

Pilate therefore, having heard these words, led Jesus out and sat down upon [the] judgment-seat [bema], at a place called Pavement, but in Hebrew Gabbatha; - Jhn 19:13 

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

 

That's what I'm seeing too - that the sheep/goats judgment (Matt 25) is before the thousand year reign, and the great white throne (Rev 20) is the final, all-encompassing judgement after the kingdom reign.

But then there is also the Judgement Seat (Bema) of Christ for believers, to reward their works. This would have to be before the thousand year reign. 

The Judgment Seat of Christ will take place in heaven after the rapture of the Church.

[Vine Abider]

14 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

I think the both Judgement are rewards.  The term rewards means good or bad.  Some are awarded eternal life and some awarded with eternal death.  Render to everyman according his works. 

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. - Mat 16:27 

For we must all be manifested before the judgment-seat [bema] of Christ, that each may receive the things [done] in the body, according to those he has done, whether [it be] good or evil. - 2Co 5:10 

μισθός misthós, mis-thos'; apparently a primary word; pay for service (literally or figuratively), good or bad:—hire, reward, wages.

The Judgement-seat 'bema' is referred to as tribunal court where a judge seats to make a judgement and to declare if someone is innocent or guilty of their stated crimes.

But Paul said, I am standing before the judgment-seat [bema] of Caesar, where I ought to be judged. To the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou also very well knowest. - Act 25:10 

Pilate therefore, having heard these words, led Jesus out and sat down upon [the] judgment-seat [bema], at a place called Pavement, but in Hebrew Gabbatha; - Jhn 19:13 

Bema was also used regarding the judging of Olympic games, so not just related to criminal issues.

[Vine Abider]

9 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The Judgment Seat of Christ will take place in heaven after the rapture of the Church.

That could be . . . references stating that? 

[missmuffet]

20 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

That could be . . . references stating that? 

There is a debate in the Christian community on the timing. What is important is that it will happen. And rewards will

either be passed out or deleted.