Do we scare away the non-believers????

[Fiosh]

I'm afraid this is going to sound "preachy" and self-righteous, so I apologize right up front if it does. But I have to share my thoughts:

Many times I find myself becoming disturbed with the response to the questions of non-believers. I've seen them called "trolls", insincere, dishonest, etc. Many of them leave and are never heard from again.

What can we do to minister to these lost and/or drifting souls in a more effective manner? It is a shame to lose the opportunity to witness to those who come here with questions..........even if they are confrontational.........even if they may have an attitude.........even if they are playing "make a fool out of the Christians".

I'm sure we are all willing to be fools for Christ if that's what it takes to save a soul from hell.

Can we respond to these little ones as Christ would? Could we demonstrate His love and patience and willingness to humble Himself to save the lost?

I admit, maybe at times I'm too "soft". I do tend to be overly empathetic at times. But perhaps, there are times when it is appropriate to tolerate a little "attitude" for the sake of the kingdom.

Whenever a non-believer wanders in to Worthy it is a blessing and a God-given opportunity to witness. We should make every effort to take full advantage of it.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

I share this in love and with a heart for the lost.

Peace,

Fiosh

[IslandRose]

I agree with you. Even when someone comes on and seems to be insincere in their questions, we should answer them in a serious tone and give a good answer. It could be that taking them seriously will make them take us more seriously.

We never know why people come on as they do. I think there are times that people are embarrassed to ask the questions, so they act as if they really don't matter, but what if this is a sincere search for the truth. Are we displaying a way of life they would want to emulate? Is our love drawing them to the Saviour or are we pushing them away with our sarcasm or criticism?

There are also lurkers reading every day. Who know what words will cause them to recognize their need of our Saviour?

[Bolts]

Amen.

This is a delicate chatroom. We need to be sensitive to the lurkers and visitors as well as to each other.

[felix]

Hello bro.

I know that your heart is pure here, and you really have a concern for the lost and how they are received by us. I will take heed of your words. It is very good that you share your thoughts. I recognize that this thought spawned from me responding to Itzomi in the thread "My Objections to the Faith".

Concerning this matter with Itzomi I will beg to differ. Not trying to be defensive...but if you look at the conversation again and consider what I say and what happens later....you will find that it was true. I was only speaking what I saw was true. And she became very defensive in a way that made me out to be the "bad" guy. The very first thing I said that appeared aggressive was when I said, "You are stubbornly holding on to your views....". I guess this is what made her feel defensive and that's how it all started from there. HOWEVER, notice that her stubborness was true all along...she herself said she is "like a dog that won't let go of a bone". This is truly just another way of saying "stubborningly holding onto your views". I wanted to expose the truth in this matter. But not all people are willing to accept it openly and easily. I can be in error also yet I am aware of that and open to correction. That is why I asked her to forgive and pray for me if I am wrong about her integrity.

I did feel a little bad afterwards, but I truly believed that people just want to be nice so people can stay. But that is not right. Let's go through this following question. There are workers in your church who are living in sin. What you want to tell them is the truth...but you know that it may offend them and scare them away. What do you think God would want you to do?

Lets look at the prophets. Most of their messages weren't about blessings but about condemnation and judgement from God. Was the prophet allowed to not share a message on judgement if he felt that it would offend people?

If we favor a person in our church then our heart is not in the right place. If we hate a person in our church then our heart is not in the right place. If we hate a person in our church for no reason then our heart is definetely in the wrong place. Are you willing to share a message of judgement on a person you personally favor? Are you willing to share a message of blessing on a person you do not like? We can only be sensitive to what the Lord wants and not sensitive to what we feel.

And I know there is another side to this. What if the prophet did not prophecy truthfully but deceitfully. What if the people in your church weren't living in sin but you shared a message of condemnation with them that accused them of a sin they had not commited? The consequences of a false prophet is far greater than other functions in the body because they have a greater responsibility. If you are on the receiving side of this false prophet who falsely prophesises over you then that false prophet will be dealt with God strongly....more strongly than a false teacher,a greedy giver, or a negligent pastor.

Fiosh, I'm not opposed to anything you're presenting here. Thank you for sharing this. To the fools we must become like fools so we may gain them. To the lawless we must become like the lawless, etc. This is very important.

I think there were many with you Fiosh that felt the same way as you did. And some held me by this concerning Itzomi in like manner. I feel it is very important that when we think another brother or sister is in error that we first pray for them and them speak to them about what we think their error is. If the brother listens to you then you have won him. However, if he will not take heed or listen then you bring more witnesses. This is the procedure.

[Fiosh]

Hello bro.

I know that your heart is pure here, and you really have a concern for the lost and how they are received by us. I will take heed of your words. It is very good that you share your thoughts. I recognize that this thought spawned from me responding to Itzomi in the thread "My Objections to the Faith".

Concerning this matter with Itzomi I will beg to differ. Not trying to be defensive...but if you look at the conversation again and consider what I say and what happens later....you will find that it was true. I was only speaking what I saw was true. And she became very defensive in a way that made me out to be the "bad" guy. The very first thing I said that appeared aggressive was when I said, "You are stubbornly holding on to your views....". I guess this is what made her feel defensive and that's how it all started from there. HOWEVER, notice that her stubborness was true all along...she herself said she is "like a dog that won't let go of a bone". This is truly just another way of saying "stubborningly holding onto your views". I wanted to expose the truth in this matter. But not all people are willing to accept it openly and easily. I can be in error also yet I am aware of that and open to correction. That is why I asked her to forgive and pray for me if I am wrong about her integrity.

I did feel a little bad afterwards, but I truly believed that people just want to be nice so people can stay. But that is not right. Let's go through this following question. There are workers in your church who are living in sin. What you want to tell them is the truth...but you know that it may offend them and scare them away. What do you think God would want you to do?

Lets look at the prophets. Most of their messages weren't about blessings but about condemnation and judgement from God. Was the prophet allowed to not share a message on judgement if he felt that it would offend people?

If we favor a person in our church then our heart is not in the right place. If we hate a person in our church then our heart is not in the right place. If we hate a person in our church for no reason then our heart is definetely in the wrong place. Are you willing to share a message of judgement on a person you personally favor? Are you willing to share a message of blessing on a person you do not like? We can only be sensitive to what the Lord wants and not sensitive to what we feel.

And I know there is another side to this. What if the prophet did not prophecy truthfully but deceitfully. What if the people in your church weren't living in sin but you shared a message of condemnation with them that accused them of a sin they had not commited? The consequences of a false prophet is far greater than other functions in the body because they have a greater responsibility. If you are on the receiving side of this false prophet who falsely prophesises over you then that false prophet will be dealt with God strongly....more strongly than a false teacher,a greedy giver, or a negligent pastor.

Fiosh, I'm not opposed to anything you're presenting here. Thank you for sharing this. To the fools we must become like fools so we may gain them. To the lawless we must become like the lawless, etc. This is very important.

I think there were many with you Fiosh that felt the same way as you did. And some held me by this concerning Itzomi in like manner. I feel it is very important that when we think another brother or sister is in error that we first pray for them and them speak to them about what we think their error is. If the brother listens to you then you have won him. However, if he will not take heed or listen then you bring more witnesses. This is the procedure.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....I got halfway thru a reply and somehow accidentally deleted it! Maybe the Holy Spirit wasn't happy with what I was saying?? I'll try again.

Hi Felix,

Thanks for your comments! Let me first clear up a few things.

1. My post was not a direct result of your replies to Itzomi; I've seen things said time and time again here, to non-believers , that disturb me.

2. I agree with almost all of what you have to say about telling people the hard truth.

3. I'm a "sis" not a "bro"

4. As I said, I may be too "soft" and I'm willing to admit I may lean too far in the other direction, and the proper response may be somewhere in the middle.

That being said, let me try to clarify my issue, if possible.

My observation is that sometimes those with questions are accused of being "insincere" because they continue to persist in their unbelief after they receive a reply that is assumed to be sufficient.

My own personal opinion---and I accept that is all it is------is that people need time to process information; especially information that is difficult and goes against their established (and comfortable) belief system. I don't expect them to immediately respond, "Oh hey, yeah, you're right, I'm wrong, I'll completely reverse my way of thinking right here on the spot!"

Yes, that can happen by God's grace. True. But normally it takes a little time. ( Bread of Life is a beautiful case study of that--Praise God!)

It's ok, IMHO, to say, "If you persist in your unbelief your path will lead you to hell".

It's not ok to say, "You are being dishonest, stubborn, insincere, a trouble-maker, etc." when you don't truly know the person's heart".

I know that I am NO Isaiah . Yes, I am called to share the Gospel. Yes, I even am sometimes given the words to say by the Holy Spirit. I have had that experience at times, and it often moves me to tears of joy afterward. But, I do not judge a person's heart. I simply speak the truth to them.

I see a difference between the two.

There have been times that I have PM'd a non-believer and found them to be sincere in their search for answers and hurt by the rejection they felt here. That is a sad commentary on our Christian response.

Bottom line: A person who has questions AND COMES HERE should be given the benefit of the doubt that they are sincerely seeking the Truth, and have been led here by the Holy Spirit. They should be treated with love and patience. WE should pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance each time we respond to them. They should be given the hard truth of the Gospel---"you are a sinner and without Jesus, you are toast". BUT, they should never be rejected as a liar for admitting they don't believe.

It is sometimes.....often, I'd say.....a desperate cry for help.

All I'm asking it that we all, myself included because I can get "harsh" at times if I'm not careful, take pains to not chase people away by our words. I pray everyday for the opportunity to witness. When a lost soul wanders in to WB it is a gift from God, to us, and to them.

Let's cherish that gift........and unwrap it GENTLY.

God bless; your sister in Christ,

Fiosh

[Gerioke]

It's not ok to say, "You are being dishonest, stubborn, insincere, a trouble-maker, etc." when you don't truly know the person's heart".

I've seen certain believers respond to other believers in this manner. It's not very encouraging.

[kodischild]

I think that we need to respond differently to non-believers than to believers. When I read about Jesus' interactions with "sinners" it strikes me that He tries to bring them into His love before He tells them to make changes. I think that we unintentionally give people the impression that Christianity is a set of rules.

Get the can opener, here come the worms.

Back during my gay phase I wanted to take my children to church. We live in a small town, so everyone knows everyone else's business. We would go to a new church, sometime that week Pastors would come by and invite us to never come to their church again. Some of them were at least polite, but most gave the impression that we were not welcome because we were gay. By the time they were done with us I never wanted to go to another church, and I was pretty sure I didn't want anything to do with that kind of God.

I think that is what we do to a lot of the people here. We read a few posts, decide we know the person, and proceed to explain how they are not good enough, sincere enough, or cool enough to hang out with us. Then we are surprised when these people feel hurt and lash out at Christianity.

The funny thing is to watch our attitudes toward people. Our words say that God accepted me while I was still a sinner, but our actions say that these other people should stop sinning so they can come to God. I'm sure that isn't the impression anyone means to give, but it is the impression I know some of these people get.

Back to my gay phase, it won't surprise you to know that eventually someone invited me to a church that accepted me the way I was. They made it clear that they thought it was a sin, didn't approve, but loved me and I was accepted and they loved me even if we disagreed on if my lifestyle was a sin or not. Their acceptance opened me up to God because I no longer felt like His people were rejecting me. The closer I got to God, the more conviction I felt. I finally left the lifestyle on my own with the support of the church. If they had tried to force me to give up my sin I would have fought and ran from God. But they instead of trying to take my sin away from me they tried to give me God to fill me up.

Ok, I didn't express that well, but hopefully you will understand anyway.

[Fiosh]

I think that we need to respond differently to non-believers than to believers. When I read about Jesus' interactions with "sinners" it strikes me that He tries to bring them into His love before He tells them to make changes. I think that we unintentionally give people the impression that Christianity is a set of rules.

Get the can opener, here come the worms.

Back during my gay phase I wanted to take my children to church. We live in a small town, so everyone knows everyone else's business. We would go to a new church, sometime that week Pastors would come by and invite us to never come to their church again. Some of them were at least polite, but most gave the impression that we were not welcome because we were gay. By the time they were done with us I never wanted to go to another church, and I was pretty sure I didn't want anything to do with that kind of God.

I think that is what we do to a lot of the people here. We read a few posts, decide we know the person, and proceed to explain how they are not good enough, sincere enough, or cool enough to hang out with us. Then we are surprised when these people feel hurt and lash out at Christianity.

The funny thing is to watch our attitudes toward people. Our words say that God accepted me while I was still a sinner, but our actions say that these other people should stop sinning so they can come to God. I'm sure that isn't the impression anyone means to give, but it is the impression I know some of these people get.

Back to my gay phase, it won't surprise you to know that eventually someone invited me to a church that accepted me the way I was. They made it clear that they thought it was a sin, didn't approve, but loved me and I was accepted and they loved me even if we disagreed on if my lifestyle was a sin or not. Their acceptance opened me up to God because I no longer felt like His people were rejecting me. The closer I got to God, the more conviction I felt. I finally left the lifestyle on my own with the support of the church. If they had tried to force me to give up my sin I would have fought and ran from God. But they instead of trying to take my sin away from me they tried to give me God to fill me up.

Ok, I didn't express that well, but hopefully you will understand anyway.

You expressed it beautifully, kodischild. Thank you.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Irish_Graham]

Not just on the forum but I believe in general Christians scare away non-believers sometimes by being too harsh and preachy with the testimony and when trying 6to engage in apologetics.

The "fire and brimstone" message and the "God hates fags" message of the religious right do not bring many people to Christ IMO.

[Guest mylittlelambs]

Fiosh I agree, as Christians the bible tells us not to offend, to love. We need to live by example if we want to help people believe in us.