Does God play dice?...

[BeyondET]

On 1/8/2025 at 12:34 AM, HAZARD said:

God knows His plan for man from beginning to end. What I showed Cindy Lynn was that God does not know what free moral agents will do until they make their choice, citing Abraham as a classic example.

God tested Abraham and when Abraham made his choice and obeyed God, God said, "NOW I KNOW."  God limits Himself in this area. If God knew Abraham would pass the test He put Abraham through, why go through all that trouble? God never said, Well I'm all knowing and knew all along that Abraham would pass the test, but I just felt like putting him and his son through this ordeal, just for the fun of it?

Free moral agency means just that. We are free to make our choices, and God allows this, and if we make the wrong choices then God holds us responsible for those choices. Why doesn't all knowing God stop people from sinning?

Because if He did that then there would be no free moral agency, and Heaven would be full of people who feel they were forced to obey. That's the reason Satan will be loosed a little while after the one thousand year rule of Jesus, the Millennium, to weed out any who are alive during the Millennium who may still rebel with Satan.

As soon as Satan is released from the bottomless pit, Satan will waste no time in doing what he does best. The Bible says that he will then go out to deceive the nations once again. He will be allowed to literally go to the four corners of the globe to get as many people as he possibly can to do his evil bidding once again.

The Bible says that he will be targeting all of the people who are wanting to rebel against God from the Millennium Kingdom. 

Rev. 20:7-10, “When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.

How many will Satan gather from those who went through the millennium?

"In number they are like the sand on the seashore."

Satan will go throughout the earth to deceive the nations who have not wanted the reign of Christ and who in their hearts have longed for an opportunities to get rid of God's laws and rigid suppression of their lusts (v.8; Eph. 2:1-3)

God did not create man to steal, rape, and murder. These are things which men freely chose to do and God cannot be held responsible for their free will choices. If God allowed people to be born, knowing before hand they would murder, rape, and steal, then on judgment day they could hold God responsible for them being born that way and destined to eternal hell for their deeds.

We are free moral agents, not robots pre designed to do good or bad.

God is all knowing, even hiding among trees.

Genesis 3

9 But the LORD God called out to the man, “Where are you?”

Edited January 10 by BeyondET

[other one]

9 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

There is no such thing as a natural born killer, even satan once dwelled in heaven.

              really???

[IaMan]

On 1/5/2025 at 2:54 PM, other one said:

God also knew he was going to use mankind to judge the angels, so I would say that he intended for Adam to do what he did.  Adam was not created with the ability to judge, for he didn't know good from evil, right from wrong and such.   It's really interesting that he let Satan talk Eve and then Adam to obtaining that knowledge to be judges.

Are we saying that Adam was set up to fail?

Edited January 10 by IaMan

[IaMan]

On 1/4/2025 at 3:14 PM, other one said:

It's my opinion that because God is not constrained to the linear timeline we live it, he knew what Abraham would decide to do beforehand.  Not that he made Abraham do something, but knew beforehand what Abraham would do.

Same as the end time things going on today.   God isn't going to make us do things, he just knew what we would do and told is about it beforehand so we would not lose faith when it happens.  God doesn't want all the evil going on in the world today, he just saw it happen in our future and told us about it.

 How would that point of view explain what happened with Jonah's decision to disobeyi God ?

[IaMan]

On 1/7/2025 at 8:42 AM, Who me said:

No, there is nothing random in God's actions, if there was he would not be God.

The randomness we perceive  is because we see thing from a finite view point, we don't  see it from the perspective of eternity.

Remember Romans 8:28 All things work together for the good of those who are called a cording to his purpose. 

Then why say for...NOW ....I know with Abraham while Peter is a.. You Will..

Is there some other factor involved between these two characters that made one apparently easier to foretell than the other?

[IaMan]

On 1/5/2025 at 2:40 PM, RV_Wizard said:

The Bible was not written for Abraham.  It was written for others to know that Abraham so trusted God he would offer his only son, just as God would one day do for us.

Neither did God need to test Job.  He knew Job would pass the test, but in that, Job became a lesson for us to trust God over all things.

God knew Adam would fail the test, but He gave Adam free will anyway and allowed man the freedom to rebel against God's orders.

God knew Lot couldn't find 10 good men in Sodom, but He allowed Lot to bargain down to a very low number so that Lot, and the rest of us, would know that the cities were not worth saving.

The Bible is not all written TO us, but all of it is written FOR us.  There is no chance with God.  He knows the outcome.  The lessons are for us, the unknowing, to determine our level of faith in God's word.

 He gave Adam free will anyway and allowed man the freedom to rebel against God's orders.       

............................. ......................................  Scholars of Jonah's story might say something very different to what your saying here

 

 

.

[IaMan]

9 hours ago, other one said:

              really???

There is no such thing as a natural born killer, even satan once dwelled in heaven.

--------------------------------

Made me chuckle.

[other one]

3 hours ago, IaMan said:

 How would that point of view explain what happened with Jonah's decision to disobeyi God ?

Because we all have free will. God knew that Jonah would not want to do what he was told to do and let him do his thing....   But it was important that Jonah did so, so God made it worthwhile for Jonah to do so.  (Has happened to me in a much less dramatic way).   Really interesting thing is that I knew what happened to Jonah and didn't do it anyway. The result, though missing a lot of the drama, is much too personal to talk about.    I learned from the experience, just as did Jonah.

[other one]

3 hours ago, IaMan said:

Are we saying that Adam was set up to fail?

Absolutely, except it was Satan that failed.   God set up a procedure so he could replace the fallen angels with a group of beings that had been tested beforehand to be trusted not to turn on him as did Lucifer/Satan and his followers.

[BeyondET]

19 hours ago, other one said:

              really???

Yes, I deleted it within minutes because I knew an animal would show up, even though it wasn't about animals. You are a fast one no doubt.

Edited January 10 by BeyondET