Downfall of America and Israel in 2027

[DeighAnn]

12 hours ago, The Light said:

Out of context.

No, it wasn't.  You were speaking to the 'multitudes' in heaven like a pre trib rapture was the only way for them to have gotten there.  ALL the verse I gave show HOW without a pre trib souls get to heaven.  So no, not out of context, just an inconvenient truth for pre trib rapture THEORY telling. 

[DeighAnn]

20 hours ago, The Light said:

How can the coming of Jesus immediately AFTER the tribulation, have anything to do with a pretribulation rapture?

The point that is being made is that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 immediately AFTER the tribulation is not the coming of Jesus with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19.

It can't.  

In Matt 24, Jesus coming, like you wrote, is immediately AFTER the trib of those days...aka immediately AFTER the workings of Satan with all lying signs and wonders...we agree, not pre trib.

In Rev 19, there is NO DOUBT as to it being AFTER also

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Defeat of the Beast and False Prophet

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.



2 Thess 
5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: 6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

[DeighAnn]

12 hours ago, The Light said:

Have you ever heard of the marriage supper of the Lamb? Believers are in heaven during the 7th seal wrath of God.......Day of the Lord.

Here is the great multitude in heaven during the marriage supper.......Jesus is there as He is the bridegroom.

Revelation 19

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Yes, I have. 

And I went to Rev 18 to CHECK ON THE TIMING.  Did you?  Rev 18 ENDS WITH

20Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Rejoicing in Heaven

1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. 4And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. 5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

The Marriage of the Lamb

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

THIS clearly shows us the marriage of the Lamb IS AFTER the and not before

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

In Rev 19, there is NO DOUBT as to it being AFTER also

The 2nd Advent, where Jesus comes to rule, is not the Rapture. The Rapture IIS CLEARLY us the Church, and Dead in Christ, going to heaven to marry the lamb. Why go to heaven if Jesus is going to be on earth for 1000 years? You are just in error sister, and looks like you will always have this one hang-up/flaw in your thinking. 

Rev. 19 is Jesus Marrying the Church, the White Linen/Robes signifies our Purity as Christs Bride, in Rev. 4 & 5 we already have on those White Raiment. Rev. 2 and 3 = Church Age Rev. 4:1 IS THE RAPTURE, Rev. 4 and 5 is Jesus in Heaven with his ALREADY WED Bride. Rev. 6 Is Jesus taking off the Seals that BIND God's Judgments and telling the Church in heaven what is soon to come, we are still moving in PERFECT CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER so far. Rev. 7 is Jesus telling the Two-witnesses (Who show up 1335 days before the 2nd Advent/Coming) to get Israel to repent JUST BEFORE God's Wrath falls in the middle of the week, at the First Trump in Rev. 8. We are still in Chronological Order as we move in to Rev. 9 where Trumps 5 & 6 brings us Woes #1 and #2. Here us where the Book of Revelation DEPARTS from a perfect Chronological Order. To stay in order we must move to Rev. 16, where the #3rd Woe is released from the 7th Trump, thus all of God's Wrath emits from the 7 Trumps.

Now, the other chapters all (mostly) happen during this 1260 days of God's Wrath that takes place in chapters 8, 9 and 16, but they all have a special designation about them, for instance Rev. 11 is specifically about the Two-witnesses 1260 day ministry on earth and how they pray down all the plagues. Thus they die before the 7th Trump (3rd Woe) because they have already prayed it down even though it has not come to pass yet when they die, but that is on purpose, they are the 1335, and thus must die 75 days before the 2nd Advent of Jesus, and thus we understand the 7th Trump or 3rd Woe lasts 75 days.

Rev. 12 is the Dragon chasing Israel (The Women) for 1260 days.

Rev. 13 is The Beast ruling for 1260 days. 

Rev. 14 like Rev. 19 covers the 1260 days BUT MORE, in that vs. 14 is a cinematic flashback to the pre 70th week rapture by Jesus from UPON A CLOUD (we meet him in the air to go to heaven to marry the Lamb), likewise as I stated, we Marry the Lamb BEFORE Rev. 4 & 5 that is why we have on White Robes as seen in Rev. 4. What you miss is Rev. 19 is all about the 7 Years (7 days) we spend in the Fathers Wedding Chambers (Heaven) that is why t covers 7 years. Backing up now to Rev. 17, that is the Harlot (All False Religions) being Judged by the Beast and his Kings. Unlike the other Beasts, this last Beast desires to b Worshiped as the ONLY God thus there is no place for any other Religions in his kingdom, so he will wipe out Islam, Buddhism, et al religions. God will then Judge the False Religion of Beast Worship (those who take the Mark are killed).

Rev. 18 is Gd judging the WHOLE WORLD. Until people grasp the real chronological order of the book of Revelation, they will never grasp the book in full.

[The Light]

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Until you get the fact that there are 2 events in which the heavens open up with 2 DIFFERENT verses showing 'signs in heaven'.  Two different 2 times in which 2 different SIGNS are given.  THE WORDS given in each place have DIFFERENT meanings.  1ST IS the tribulation of Satan, 2nd is the tribulation that comes AFTER THOSE DAYS.  YES, THEY are VERY similar, cause they both come from the same place.  

The is one tribulation of those days.

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

1st one is when the war in heaven ends and Satan is kicked out.  That would be at the 6th seal 

That is not tribulation. Use common sense. Satan gets booted. How is that tribulation of the saints. 

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

What is the number of Satan?  666.  Why would you associate CHRIST with the NUMBER 6 when the NUMBER 6 is given us as ONE OF SATANS NUMBERS?  How many HINTS does GOD need to give to keep you on the RIGHT path? 

Stop it. Stay on point. Quit dreaming non contextual things up.

 

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

IF the 6th seal is as you claim 'the coming of Christ', then you have the 'little season' those under the altar are told their fellow servants will be killed like they were

being killed by CHRIST.  

They are not killed by Christ. Christ is coming for a harvest at the 6th seal.

The 5th seal when fellow servants are killed is the great tribulation.

And if you understood what you are reading, you would understand this is also the great tribulation.

Revelation 14

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

And if you understood what you are reading, you would understand this is also the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal for a harvest.

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

But you don't understand what you are reading because you are more worried about the pretribulation rapture than understanding the scriptures.

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

HERE again is how GOD PUTS IT.  It is clear.  It is straight forward.  It SHOULD BE UNDISPUTED, UNQUESTIONED

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


And just in case you MISSED THE ORDER OF EVENTS THE FIRST TWO TIMES


9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan 


What would it take to UNDERSTAND that the Lord coming at ANY OTHER TIME BEFORE THIS TO 'GATHER' anyone for any reason

would render ALL OF THIS VOID?  

Again. You don't understand what you are reading. The day that shall not come until the man of sin is revealed is the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is the day of God's wrath.

Those words are telling you that the gathering will take place before the day of the Lord which is the 7th seal. That is why we see Jesus coming for a harvest at the 6th seal.

Here is the gathering in Mark.

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So the gathering from heaven and earth takes place immediately after the tribulation of those days........at the 6th seal...........BEFORE the 7th seal.........Day of the Lord.

The Church is gathered from heaven and those of the 12 tribes that are believers will be gathered from the earth which is why those that overcome the beast are singing the song of Moses.

Revelation 15

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What did the first letter say?  

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

NOT WHETHER WE PRE TRIB RAPTURE OR NOT  


Which verses do you use for pre trib rapture that don't fit with Christ gathering us AFTER the workings of Satan?  Name one, please, just to start me off. 



 

Are you ever going to understand what you are reading?

The gathering is from heaven and earth. Who is gathered from heaven......THE CHURCH.

How did they get to heaven. Pretrib rapture.

Who is gathered from the earth. The believing seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across earth that have the testimony of Jesus Christ AFTER the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Why do you think there are 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes of Israel. Because there will be a harvest.

[The Light]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 

THIS clearly shows us the marriage of the Lamb IS AFTER the and not before

I think you are saying that it is clear that the marriage supper of the Lamb is AFTER the (judgement of Babylon) and not before.

Yes this is true. 

So, Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. We see the great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7 which is before the one year wrath of God which is the 7th seal.

So we need to see the judgement of Babylon before the gathering which occurs at the 6th seal.

I'll tell you again. When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are getting another view of events in the first 6 seals.

Looking at Revelation 14, we see first 144,000 first fruits in heaven which are from the 12 tribes.

Revelation 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Following that we see the judgement of Babylon.

Revelation 14

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Following that we see the great tribulation which is the 5th seal.

Revelation 14

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Following that, we see the coming of Jesus for the harvest which is the 6th seal before the day of the Lord.

Revelation 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Following that we see unbelievers cast into the wrath of God which is the Day of the Lord, 7th seal.

Revelation 14

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

The Word of God shows that the destruction of Babylon occurs before the marriage supper of the Lamb. The marriage supper of the Lamb begins immediately after the tribulation after Jesus comes for the gathering at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. Believers are in heaven during the one-year wrath of God at the marriage supper.

[The Light]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

It can't.  

In Matt 24, Jesus coming, like you wrote, is immediately AFTER the trib of those days...aka immediately AFTER the workings of Satan with all lying signs and wonders...we agree, not pre trib.

In Rev 19, there is NO DOUBT as to it being AFTER also

Exactly. Pre trib is before the tribulation, when we can escape ALL THESE THINGS that will come to pass.

[Locust]

On 2/10/2025 at 12:37 AM, Revelation Man said:

You do not understand Prophesy then, Dan. 8:9 MANDATES the Anti-Christ has to be born in Greece and Dan. 7:7-8 mandates he comes to power in the E.U.  

i get to disagree with you.  matthew 7:22-23 would indicate that even though they thought they were doing good they were not. Which would mean in reality that they were going against Christianity.

[Revelation Man]

5 minutes ago, Locust said:

i get to disagree with you.  matthew 7:22-23 would indicate that even though they thought they were doing good they were not. Which would mean in reality that they were going against Christianity.

Your reply has nothing to do with my Daniel post

[DeighAnn]

On 2/24/2025 at 7:49 AM, Revelation Man said:

The 2nd Advent, where Jesus comes to rule, is not the Rapture.

Word it how you will, add to it what you may, the reality is

it is AT the 2nd Advent and not before that the alive are changed and gathered...

There is a letter, 1 Thess, in which Paul is speaking about what happens to our loved ones and when we will see them again....

13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

As straight a line as possible.  We fall asleep, rise/resurrect just as did Jesus,

then we are brought back with Him when He returns.  


15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

To be sure, when the Lord returns, we are returning with Him.  The LAST Generation, living here on earth, doesn't STOP, impede, nor prevent that process.  


Info ABOUT THE LORDS RETURN follows

16For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and 'bring with Him' those who 'follow Him', who were resurrected in their spiritual body (at the death of their flesh and blood body), they have become like angels, neither taking nor giving in marriage


and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

those who didn't 'resurrect' and go up to the judgment seat of Christ in heaven, but went to the other side of the gulf/hell/hades...the 'nations' that Christ will rule over for 1000 years while Satan is bound,
WHILE those who returned with Him will sit upon the thrones along with...


17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

We know at that point His foot will touch down upon the Mount, and 'THY KINGDOM COME, THY WILL BE DONE..' goes into effect where He will sit upon the throne of David, at that point having LEFT the right hand of GOD in heaven...


Some people make that say all sorts of things it doesn't say, I don't. And apparently that has been happening for a long time and we know that by this 'beseeching'


1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

SCHOOL IS IN SESSION



2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

It wasn't close back then, there were things that had to take place.  

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

STRAIGHT LINE AGAIN - the day of Christ's coming, the day when we are 'gathered' to Him is AFTER the deception.


5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

NOW you know why WE CAN'T BE GATHERED BEFORE that time.  Deception has to come upon the world, Satan has to sit where he shouldn't, and ONLY THEN can Christ LEAVE THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD
and return to the earth.  



7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

DECEPTION was ALREADY going forth but GOD is letting His plan go forth, and not until the return of CHRIST will Satan be 'taken out of the way' or cast into the abyss for 1000 years.  


SO WHAT WITHHOLDS CHRISTS RETURN AND OUR BEING GATHERED TO HIM?  The revealing of the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION/Satan/the devil/the dragon/the one in charge of the beast kingdom etc..

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed,

Satan is revealed THROUGH the return of the Lord, the BRIGHTNESS of His coming, a BRIGHTNESS 


whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

And in case you missed WHEN we will be gathered to the Lord for the Lords Day, He gives it to us ONE LAST TIME, just to be sure that IF WE FALL INTO DECEPTION, it is of our own free will...


9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 


Could ANY of this be written in THIS MANNER, using these words, these 'tenses' these laws of language

if indeed HE HAD COME PREVIOUSLY?  

NO, if He had come previously, the WAY in which this is written, would be a lie.