" Replacement Theology"

[Locust]

he had a people for his name . what happen to them? 

 

[Luther]

On 1/5/2025 at 3:35 PM, Michael37 said:

There is a branch of Biblical Theology known as Israelology. I recall the late Chuck Missler using the term. I've had some instruction about it as follows:

From my notes:

The Book of Revelation, the final book in the New Testament, provides a vivid and symbolic portrayal of the end times. The depiction of Israel in Revelation is deeply intertwined with themes of prophecy, eschatology, and the ultimate fulfillment of God's promises.

• Israel's Role in Prophecy: Israel is central to the unfolding of end-time events. Revelation references Israel through symbolic language, often depicting it as a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head (Revelation 12:1). This imagery draws from Old Testament symbols and highlights Israel's significant role in God's redemptive plan.

• The 144,000: Revelation 7:4-8 speaks of 144,000 individuals from the twelve tribes of Israel who are sealed and protected during the tribulation. This represents a remnant of Israel that remains faithful to God.

• Restoration and Reconciliation: The book also emphasizes the ultimate restoration and reconciliation of Israel. Revelation 21 describes the New Jerusalem, which features twelve gates inscribed with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, symbolizing the inclusion of Israel in the new, eternal kingdom.

The portrayal of Israel in Revelation shows how significant the typology of God's People is in biblical prophecy, and that the fulfillment of God's covenant promises is something to expect.

Well-known Bible teacher and author, Chuck Missler, has extensively explored eschatology (the study of the end times) and Israel's role in it. Here's a brief summary of his teachings on this topic:

1. Israel's Prominent Role: Missler emphasizes that Israel is central to end-time prophecy. He often refers to the Seventy Weeks Prophecy in Daniel, which he believes outlines a specific timeline for Israel's history and the end times.

2. The Church and Israel: Missler argues that God's plans for Israel and the Church are distinct but interconnected. He suggests that the Church will not go through the Great Tribulation, a period of intense suffering described in Revelation, while Israel will experience it.

3. The 144,000: He highlights the significance of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7:4-8, interpreting them as a remnant of Israel who remain faithful during the tribulation.

4. The New Jerusalem: Missler often discusses Revelation 21, where the New Jerusalem is described with twelve gates bearing the names of the twelve tribes of Israel, symbolizing the restoration and inclusion of Israel in God's eternal kingdom.

5. The Battle of Armageddon: He teaches that the Battle of Armageddon will be a literal, climactic battle involving Israel and the forces of evil, leading to the ultimate victory of God's kingdom.

Missler's teachings are detailed and draw heavily from biblical texts, encouraging a literal interpretation of prophecy. His work aims to provide clarity on the complex and often debated subject of end-time events and Israel's role in them.

Hi. I was just looking around at previous posts when I saw this:

Quote: "Missler's teachings are detailed and draw heavily from biblical texts, encouraging a literal interpretation of prophecy. His work aims to provide clarity on the complex and often debated subject of end-time events and Israel's role in them."

I didn't know anything about Chuck Missler, so I went to Wikipedia ( you can always trust Wikipedia 😉):

"......After the Phoenix deal collapsed, Missler started an online ministry, Koinonia House, and became known as a prominent Christian Zionist and speaker on the subject of Bible prophecy."

Well for land sakes you think he might be a little biased in his interpretation?

"Christian Zionism is a political and religious movement that supports the return of the Jewish people to Palestine. Its roots can be traced back to the Protestant Reformation and the 19th century. 

Origins

19th century

Christian Zionism originated in British premillennial sectarianism. It was popular among Anglicans and evangelicals. 

1810

The London Society for Promoting Christianity Amongst the Jews was founded and lobbied the British government to establish a consulate in Jerusalem."

My point is people are going to believe whatever they wish. But for 1800 years prior the Christian Church did not hold these teachings. I think this is where the conversation should start. It's really a newer belief system challenging the historical system of belief/interpretation. 

As a truth seeker, I look for the events and outside influence from the church that played a role with this teaching, and why. What is the end game? 

 

 

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

Hi. I was just looking around at previous posts when I saw this:

Quote: "Missler's teachings are detailed and draw heavily from biblical texts, encouraging a literal interpretation of prophecy. His work aims to provide clarity on the complex and often debated subject of end-time events and Israel's role in them."

I didn't know anything about Chuck Missler, so I went to Wikipedia ( you can always trust Wikipedia 😉):

"......After the Phoenix deal collapsed, Missler started an online ministry, Koinonia House, and became known as a prominent Christian Zionist and speaker on the subject of Bible prophecy."

Well for land sakes you think he might be a little biased in his interpretation?

"Christian Zionism is a political and religious movement that supports the return of the Jewish people to Palestine. Its roots can be traced back to the Protestant Reformation and the 19th century. 

Origins

19th century

Christian Zionism originated in British premillennial sectarianism. It was popular among Anglicans and evangelicals. 

1810

The London Society for Promoting Christianity Amongst the Jews was founded and lobbied the British government to establish a consulate in Jerusalem."

My point is people are going to believe whatever they wish. But for 1800 years prior the Christian Church did not hold these teachings. I think this is where the conversation should start. It's really a newer belief system challenging the historical system of belief/interpretation. 

As a truth seeker, I look for the events and outside influence from the church that played a role with this teaching, and why. What is the end game? 

You do know what forum you're on, I am prompted to ask?

[Anne2]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Nonsense. They are no more done than you are! Are you "done?" Has God ever given up on you? If not, then why would you think that God has given up on them?!

Hello retro.

I tend to agree that God is not done with Israel in blindness. But we as his Church, are to trust in what he has done for us in him.

I want to draw attention to a verse you quoted.

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Isaiah 41:8 KJV - 8 "But thou, Israel, [art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend."

Jacob is the seed promised Abraham through Isaac.

Genesis 32:14  And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim’s head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh’s head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15  And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16  The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

The Angel and the blessing......No more called Jacob, but named him Israel..

Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. {breaking … : Heb. ascending of the morning }
25  And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26  And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27  And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28  And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

The blessing of the sons of Joseph

Genesis 48:16

bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac;

His name, and the name of his Fathers were named on them.

The name Israel includes Abraham and Isaac 

As do these

3  And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,
4  And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.
5  And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine.
6  And thy issue, which thou begettest after them, shall be thine, and shall be called after the name of their brethren in their inheritance.
 

Gal 6:15  For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16  And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Ge 28:4  And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham. {wherein … : Heb. of thy sojournings }
Ga 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The seed of promise through Sarah....

 

I just worry about those who have been blinded replacing the promises to Abraham, as promises to themselves in all this Israelogy, to the exclusion of Abraham, Isaac. That is quite similar to what the rabbis teach, from the Pharisees of Christs day. It is all about the promises made to the nation of Israel.

 

Edited January 19 by Anne2

[Your closest friendnt]

17 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

  On 1/18/2025 at 12:51 PM, Locust said:

mighty god ,yes . all mighty God , no  . Jesus answers to his God ,he is subordinate to his God and father . its true  Jesus did some wonderful things  all because he was empowered to do so.  

And my response was? : that this one needs to be study. 

There is the need to establish what you posted. If you please. 

And I followed up with this.

Not according to: 

The Government is upon his shoulders. And God will judge everyone through Jesus Christ. The everlasting Father. God has made him to be our Lord and we are accountable to Jesus Christ. 

God has only children sanctified and justified in the blood of Jesus Christ. 

This passage says otherwise. 

[Locust]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

And my response was? : that this one needs to be study. 

There is the need to establish what you posted. If you please. 

And I followed up with this.

Not according to: 

The Government is upon his shoulders. And God will judge everyone through Jesus Christ. The everlasting Father. God has made him to be our Lord and we are accountable to Jesus Christ. 

God has only children sanctified and justified in the blood of Jesus Christ. 

This passage says otherwise. 

when will this judgment take place ?

[Your closest friendnt]

50 minutes ago, Locust said:

when will this judgment take place ?

The answer to your question must be in the prophetic. The prophetic is telling us that it has not happened yet and it gives us something to think about and to know when that will take place. 

The prophetic is pointing to the Messiah that God has given the Judgement to the  Messiah and this is Jesus Christ. 

The question is when Jesus Christ will start to Judge the world. 

Is He starting to Judge the world when the veil was torn twain? 

The time the Jews stopped being Judged? 

The time the Gospel was preached in the day of Pentecost? For the living, for those who heard the Gospel? 

For those who were put in the valley of decision. 

Just questions? 

We know that when the veil was torn twain it was the time Jesus Christ died on the Cross. And if we looked for him we know where we will find him. We will find him some place among the dead. 

How can someone answer these question?  

We know that God was waiting for Jesus to Judge the dead from the beginning of the world. 

And that the dead people of God. God gave them to Jesus Christ. Not before but after his death on the Cross. 

 

[Anne2]

Sorry retro, but the seed that is Christ....Is the seed that is anointed.

Christos

As found here in the old testament Greek  christos

Le 4:5  And the priest that is anointed <04899> shall take of the bullock’s blood, and bring it to the tabernacle of the congregation:
Le 4:16  And the priest that is anointed shall bring of the bullock’s blood to the tabernacle of the congregation:
Le 6:22  And the priest of his sons that is anointed in his stead shall offer it: it is a statute for ever unto the LORD; it shall be wholly burnt.
1Sa 12:5  And he said unto them, The LORD is witness against you, and his anointed is witness this day, that ye have not found ought in my hand. And they answered, He is witness.
1Sa 16:6 ¶  And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD’S anointed is before him.

04899 משׁיח mashiyach maw-shee’-akh

from 04886, Greek 3323 Μεσσιας; n m; [BDB-603b] {See TWOT on 1255 @@ "1255c"}

AV-anointed 37, Messiah 2; 39

1) anointed, anointed one
1a) of the Messiah, Messianic prince
1b) of the king of Israel
1c) of the high priest of Israel
1d) of Cyrus
1e) of the patriarchs as anointed kings 

Not seeds as many

22  By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23  And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24  But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. {an … :

Re 1:6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Re 5:10  And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The apostolic church, a kingdom of priests. The church of the firstborn, the Israel of God.

What do you think?

Why is the priesthood always left out? The common people were strangers (zuwr) from the priesthood and the closest areas of Gods house.

Edited January 20 by Anne2

[Luther]

6 hours ago, Michael37 said:

You do know what forum you're on, I am prompted to ask?

Sure. And I'm assuming the ability to discuss views that may not be popular at this time should still be considered a healthy thing to do. Historically there were different  eschatological views that no longer seem to have a voice. I simply do not believe the popular views today. This is why we share. 

[Anne2]

14 minutes ago, Luther said:

And I'm assuming the ability to discuss views that may not be popular at this time should still be considered a healthy thing to do.

I thought he might have meant there is a amillennial section/forum to discuss these issues?

 

7 hours ago, Michael37 said:

You do know what forum you're on, I am prompted to ask?

What does this mean?