Rev. Charles Haddon Spurgeon Free-Will -A Slave

[Fran C]

2 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Woke, perhaps. 

 

You don't think individuals are affected when you denigrate their theology?   

Here we go again....getting personal.

Guess you're out of good replies.

Oh, and YES, I DO denigrate ANY theology that makes God out to be the creator of evil and the predestinater of that evil being perpetrated into people's lives.

For instance...I DO find it rather horrifying that calvinists believe that God predestinates rape...murder of children...hunger world-wide....cancer...and every other manner of evil that, according to calvinists, HE perpetrates on human-kind.  The very creation from Genesis which God stated was VERY GOOD.

And here is the God you worship:

Believers, again, admonished by the rod of God, immediately begin to reflect on their sins, and, struck with fear and dread, retake themselves as suppliants to implore mercy. Did not God mitigate the pains by which wretched souls are excruciated, they would give way a hundred times, even at slight signs of his anger.

The Institutes, Book 3, Chapter 4, Paragraph 32

(you should really read the entire paragraph)

 

And this one shows the complete illogical doctrines of calvinism:

 Another end which the Lord has in afflicting his people is to try their patience, and train them to obedience--not that they can yield obedience to him except in so far as he enables them; 

Institutes, Book 3, Chapter 8, Paragraph 4

 

IOW, God wants to train His people so they obey Him...but they cannot obey Him except that He enables them!!!

Yes,,,I agree with Paul that this is a different gospel.  The true gospel, that Paul and the Apostles agree to, states that the Holy Spirit will help us in keeping God's commandments....quite different.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Fran C said:

Great point Sower.

Jesus was the chosen of God to redeem manking.

WE are the chosen of God to be born again....we are the elect.

BUT

HOW we become chosen/elect seems to be the discussion at hand.  The NT states that God loves the whole world.  This means the whole world...it means everyone in the world.

God will choose for salvation those that believe on His Son Jesus.  The jailer asked:  WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?

The answer was not that Paul did not know since it was totally up to God.  The answer was not that the jailer should wait to see if God picks him.

The answer was:  BELIEVE IN JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED.

Paul was secure in what he proclaimed to the jailer.  He told him to BELIEVE and he would be saved.

Easy.  God made it easy because He loves His creation.  Us.

Blessings, my lady!  Very well said!  The recurring theme of the NT is to believe in the Son of God.

1 Cor 1:21 is another great proof:  "God is pleased . . . to save those who believe".

From all the talking points of reformed theology, it should be "God is pleased to save the elect".

[BornAgain490]

24 minutes ago, Fran C said:

..WHERE does it state that the the Holy Spirit had already taken up residence in the jailer?

WHERE does it state this?  Acts 16:31

It is implied.  Only a man with regenerated spirit will concern himself with things of the Spirit.  

[BornAgain490]

25 minutes ago, Fran C said:

Funny BA.

YOU are the one that believes a person must be born again before they could be born again.

 

What?   Why did Paul write 1 Timothy 2:11-12?  

[FreeGrace]

36 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Fran C said:

WHERE does it state that?

Adding to scripture again.

Do you read the Bible and comprehend the Trinity.  If so, where does the Bible explicitly use that term?

Another strawman argument.  The Bible doesn't ever use the term Trinity.  So what?  The Bible clearly states that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.  Count em.  That's 3 Persons, all God.

If the claim that election is to salvation, WHY are there NO verses that SAY that in plain words?  That's the problem.  

EVERY verse about election that includes the PURPOSE/GOAL of election, is to service.

Here's just 1 of a number of examples:

1 Cor 1:27 - But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

v.28 - God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not —to nullify the things that are,

The red words are who God chose.  The blue words show the purpose of being chosen, which is clearly service.  Not one word about being chosen to salvation.

[FreeGrace]

37 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

I'm not surprised you'd back out of answering that very crucial question.  Its not a straw man.  You either had saving faith before you were born again, or when you were born again you were coterminously gifted saving faith. 

Interesting how many "made up" words Calvinists add to their discussions.

Saving faith is simply trusting in Christ, the object of that trust, FOR salvation, which is the goal of trusting.

And because the Bible says that men REFUSE to believe, we KNOW that believing or REFUSING to believe are choices that all men can make.

[Fran C]

6 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

It is implied.  Only a man with regenerated spirit will concern himself with things of the Spirit.  

When it comes to the word of God....Implication is not acceptable.

Anything can be IMPLIED from the bible...this is why it's studied so extensively...so that we can know THE TRUTH.

The jailer wanted to know HOW he could be saved. Paul told him how.  And, this is repeated throughout the NT.

Romans 10:9   BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART, CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH

John 3:16  WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT PERISH

Romans 10:13 WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED

Acts 2:38 REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.

and many more...

Nowhere does it state that God will choose who will be saved.

 

 

[Luther]

On 1/6/2025 at 8:39 AM, Neighbor said:

Pulling no punches the introduction to the four points of Rev Spurgeon presentation  includes the following:

Our four points, this morning, shall be: First—that every man is dead, because it says: "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." Secondly—that there is life in Jesus Christ: "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." Thirdly—that there is life in Christ Jesus for every one that comes for it: "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life;" implying that all who go will have life. And fourthly—the gist of the text lies here, that no man by nature ever will come to Christ, for the text says, "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." So far from asserting that men of their own wills ever do such a thing, it boldly and flatly denies it, and says, "Ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life." Why, beloved, I am almost ready to exclaim, Have all free-willers no knowledge that they dare to run in the teeth of inspiration? Have all those that deny the doctrine of grace no sense? Have they so departed from God that they wrest this to prove free-will; whereas the text says, "Ye WILL NOT come to me that ye might have life."

 

Very good verse to share. It says a lot, doesn't it!

[FreeGrace]

36 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Fran C said:

Take it as you will....I always refer to the theology and never to an individual.

You don't think individuals are affected when you denigrate their theology?   

No one has "denigrated" anything.  When flaws are pointed out, take it as a correction, which the Bible encourages, btw.

2 Tim 3:16 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for doctrine, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

You haven't provided any verse that SAYS what you SAY.  The Bereans did that with Paul.  They "searched the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul said was true (aligned with the Bible).

Reformed theology falls apart under that kind of scrutiny.

[Fran C]

7 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Another strawman argument.  The Bible doesn't ever use the term Trinity.  So what?  The Bible clearly states that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.  Count em.  That's 3 Persons, all God.

If the claim that election is to salvation, WHY are there NO verses that SAY that in plain words?  That's the problem.  

EVERY verse about election that includes the PURPOSE/GOAL of election, is to service.

Here's just 1 of a number of examples:

1 Cor 1:27 - But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

v.28 - God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not —to nullify the things that are,

The red words are who God chose.  The blue words show the purpose of being chosen, which is clearly service.  Not one word about being chosen to salvation.

Great points!

I always understand predestination to be as to the HOW one is saved or the PURPOSE or WHY one is saved,,,as you've pointed out.  It's clearly stated and only presuppositions that are taught could make anyone believe otherwise.

Must say good night.