Rev. Charles Haddon Spurgeon Free-Will -A Slave

[BornAgain490]

3 minutes ago, Sower said:

Faith COMES BY HEARING!, in case you didn't know, BornAgain. 

Of course I know.  I heard God's word, THEN I had faith.  I had no faith before I heard; the faith I have came after I heard, because as I heard God's word, the moving of the Holy Spirit in my dead spirit  brought me spiritual life that caused me to believe. 

You heard THEN you came to faith. Your faith came to you the same way it came to me and everyone else who is born again: the Holy Spirit moved in you and gave you saving faith. 

[FreeGrace]

58 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

  FreeGrace said:

I was justified WHEN I believed

Before you were saved?

Do you not understand what "WHEN" means??  The very MOMENT one believes, they are saved, justified, regenerated, and indwelt with the Holy Spirit.  Every one of these are based on faith.

58 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

   That is what's called self-righteousness. 

No, that's what erroneous Calvinism calls it.  It doesn't understand the Bible.

[FreeGrace]

58 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

FreeGrace said:

Please show me the verse that says what you say.  God regenerates and saves THROUGH FAITH, per Eph 2:8.  But you have already shown yesterday that you don't understand that verse.  

Ephesians 2:5,8.  Faith is a gift. Stop denying it.  Stop believing in your self-righteousness.  

I guess your "filter" of Calvinist talking points prevents any amount of truth to get through,  Your claims here have been throughly refuted.  Greek grammar doesn't allow what you claim the verse says.  The gender of faith and gift don't match, which means they don't go together.  It's sad when facts don't matter.

I already know what my righteousness is in God's eyes:  used menstrual rags, which is what the Hebrew word actually means in Isa 64:6 rather than "filthy rags".

All morality that is produced from a human being is self righteousness.  Everyone knows that.  And human morality stinks to God.  

The only righteousness that God accepts is what comes from the power of the Holy Spirit.  Which means only believers can produce that righteousness, and only when filled with the Holy Spirit.

Do you know how to be filled with the Spirit?  I'm not talking about the indwelling.

[FreeGrace]

48 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

You wrote in reference to Eph 2:8...  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

"Faith come first

then salvation....simple grammar."

The faith spoken of in Eph 2:8 is the faith of Christ not our own faith, it is the faith Christ had in the Father to raise Him up again after he paid our sin debt which displayed God's grace. Our own faith is less than a mustard seed.

No where in the Bible does any verse say that we are saved by Christ's faith.  Do you understand that many verses use "believe" in relation with being saved??

So it's NOT "the faith of Christ" that saves anyone.  And Eph 2:8 does not say that.

The Bible says we are saved by "His life", which refers to His resurrection.  

Rom 5:10 - For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

We are reconciled by His death, we are saved by His life (resurrection).

[FreeGrace]

42 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Of course I know.  I heard God's word, THEN I had faith. 

You "had faith" WHEN you believed the promise.  Not before.

42 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

I had no faith before I heard; the faith I have came after I heard, because as I heard God's word, the moving of the Holy Spirit in my dead spirit  brought me spiritual life that caused me to believe.

Yet, NO verse says that hearing causes belief.  And many who hear the gospel REFUSE to believe, which proves it is a choice.  They could have believed but chose not to.

42 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

You heard THEN you came to faith. Your faith came to you the same way it came to me and everyone else who is born again: the Holy Spirit moved in you and gave you saving faith. 

No verse says the Holy Spirit "gives saving faith".

btw, the words "saving faith" is a noun.  That refers to the content of the Bible.  So yes, in that sense only, we are given the principles and doctrines found in the Bible.

But the ACT of believing (a verb) comes from the heart, per Rom 10:10 and occurs by choice WHEN a person hears the gospel.  

Calvinists apply God's sovereignty in ways that the Bible doesn't teach.  

He isn't a puppeteer as the Calvinist portrays, all while denying that they do.

If God causes faith, then God is just pulling strings on puppets.  There is no getting around it.

[BornAgain490]

18 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Do you not understand what "WHEN" means??

LOL.  Of course I do. Except you've got the "when" in the wrong spot. 

 

20 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

 The very MOMENT one believes, they are saved, justified, regenerated, and indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

Let me fix that for ya:  the very moment the Holy Spirit indwells you, you are regenerated by the sovereign grace of God, eternally saved by the sovereign grace of God, justified with saving faith by the sovereign grace of God, all of which are gifts of our sovereign God. 

[BornAgain490]

20 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

 Your claims here have been throughly refuted

No, they haven't. Although the unbiblical free-will easy believer likes to think so, they haven't. 

[BornAgain490]

26 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

You "had faith" WHEN you believed the promise

I had faith when God gifted me faith the moment He regenerated my dead spirit. 

 

27 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Yet, NO verse says that hearing causes belief

Faith comes by hearing the word of God. That means hearing is the cause, and faith is the effect. 

 

28 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

 And many who hear the gospel REFUSE to believe, which proves it is a choice.  

God by-passes reprobates and hardened hearts that God did not predestinate and choose for salvation from before HE created the world. 

 

30 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

No verse says the Holy Spirit "gives saving faith".

Ephesians 2:8: faith is a gift we receive the moment we are born again by the sovereign grace of God the Holy Spirit. 

 

33 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

But the ACT of believing (a verb) comes from the heart, per Rom 10:10 and occurs by choice WHEN a person hears the gospel

The act of believing (verb) in God and all of the spiritual matters of God is made possible only when the power of God regenerates man's dead spirit, during which the indwelt Holy Spirit gives (verb) the newly regenerate man the gift of faith (noun). 

 

[BornAgain490]

45 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

If God causes faith, then God is just pulling strings on puppets.  There is no getting around it.

If that is so, then I thank God Almighty for quickening my dead spirit by HIS sovereign grace and by HIS sovereign string-pulling. 

Can not the Potter do with the clay as He wills?   Does God not have mercy and compassion on whomever HE will?  Yes, and Yes. Amen. 

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

  FreeGrace said:

Do you not understand what "WHEN" means??

LOL.  Of course I do. Except you've got the "when" in the wrong spot.

Only according to your opinion.

1 hour ago, BornAgain490 said:

Let me fix that for ya:  the very moment the Holy Spirit indwells you, you are regenerated by the sovereign grace of God, eternally saved by the sovereign grace of God, justified with saving faith by the sovereign grace of God, all of which are gifts of our sovereign God. 

OK, I'll gladly clarify the above:  the very moment the Holy Spirit indwells, is AFTER the person has believed.

Eph 1:13 - And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

"having believed . . . you were sealed with the Holy Spirit".

Seems you want to twist the verse to say, "having been sealed with the Holy Spirit, you believed".

Nope.  That is not what the verse says.