Rev. Charles Haddon Spurgeon Free-Will -A Slave

[BornAgain490]

23 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Rather, my example reveals the gross error of Calvinist thinking.  It proves the Calvinist claim that free will means men save themselves is WRONG.

Think about it: your drowning man is being saved by another man. In God's plan of redemption, man cannot save man, only God is able to save man. 

Your drowning man example proves you reject the complete and absolute sovereignty of God's grace in regenerating the dead spirit of man.

Your erroneous claim that you made a choice to be saved by choosing to have saving faith is, again, denying God's sovereignty.  You altogether reject the truth that the saving faith you have is a gift from God that you received from God the moment God brought your dead spirit to life. 

Man cannot even begin to think about saving himself unless God gives man's dead spirit life. 

[FreeGrace]

16 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Think about it: your drowning man is being saved by another man. In God's plan of redemption, man cannot save man, only God is able to save man.

You're just trying not to get it.  The point of the example was that a drowning man who grabs onto a lifebuoy while being pulled in cannot take credit.  And you knew that, because that's the Calvinist charge against free will.  Which is nonsense.

16 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Your erroneous claim that you made a choice to be saved by choosing to have saving faith is, again, denying God's sovereignty.

Rather, your weird understanding of God's sovereignty makes Him a puppet master and certain elect humans puppets.  That is a pathetic view of salvation.

16 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

  You altogether reject the truth that the saving faith you have is a gift from God that you received from God the moment God brought your dead spirit to life.

I reject that talking point because there are NO such verses that say that.

16 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Man cannot even begin to think about saving himself unless God gives man's dead spirit life. 

And you have zero evidence for that unbiblical view.  Or you would be quoting the verses that say what you say.

This is what the Bible says:

Heb 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

This verse refutes Calvinism.  It acknowledges that men can please God by faith and that men CAN believe that He exists and rewards those who seek Him.

If Calvinism were true, this verse wouldn't be in the Bible.  

As to believing that God exists, the Bible also says that NO ONE has any excuse for not 

 

Rom 1:19 - since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

20 - For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

If God is the One who causes belief, how can anyone be "without excuse".

The ONLY REASON is that man is free to believe or refuse to.  That is what makes man accountable.

Did you notice that God has revealed Himself through His creation, which is why man is without excuse.  

[BornAgain490]

29 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

God's sovereignty makes Him a puppet master and certain elect humans puppets.  That is a pathetic view of salvation

The plain truth that you reject is that our sovereign God chooses who to save and HE chooses the means by which HIS chosen are saved.  

[BornAgain490]

32 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

56 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Man cannot even begin to think about saving himself unless God gives man's dead spirit life. 

And you have zero evidence for that unbiblical view.  Or you would be quoting the verses that say what you say

There you go again: rejecting the complete and absolute sovereignty of God choosing who to save and the means by which to save them. 

[BornAgain490]

34 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Heb 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

This speaks to the saving faith the born again in Christ receive when they are brought out of spiritual death and into spiritual life. Otherwise, the will not come to God or seek Him. 

[BornAgain490]

36 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

men can please God by faith and that men CAN believe that He exists

By the faith that God gifts them when He quickens man's dead spirit. 

[BornAgain490]

38 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

If God is the One who causes belief, how can anyone be "without excuse".

Its not about man, but God's sovereign grace. God will show mercy and compassion on whomever He will. Romans 9:15. 

[Michael37]

51 minutes ago, BornAgain490 said:

Its not about man, but God's sovereign grace. God will show mercy and compassion on whomever He will. Romans 9:15. 

Don't forget these examples:

Job 1:8-10  Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?"  (9)  So Satan answered the LORD and said, "Does Job fear God for nothing?  (10)  Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.

Job 2:3  Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause."

2Co 12:7-10  And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.  (8)  Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.  (9)  And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.  (10)  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

[Michael37]

Time to move on and give this ubiquitous subject a rest.