Resurrection as Birth

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

FreeGrace said:

Seems you think we take our sinful nature to heaven with us.  Why?

I was waiting for someone to say that. This is why we ascend to be with Jesus after the literal death of our body. 

Why do someone wants to live eternity with a devour body from illness or from an air plane crash or from the volcano falling on their head. 

The scriptures say they were raised to appear for their Judgement as they were out from their body as they is no body anymore. Without their body. 

I'm curious why some believers have such strange ideas about what happens to believers after death.  When I ask where their ideas are taught in the Bible, I get jo answers.  So it seems these believers just make up stuff.  Weird.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

6 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I'm curious why some believers have such strange ideas about what happens to believers after death.  When I ask where their ideas are taught in the Bible, I get jo answers.  So it seems these believers just make up stuff.  Weird.

 

It's not that simple. And it's not easy because the teachers are asking for obedience even blind obedience. But as we speak we should focus on the issues at hand and if we may see the need for criticism but we should opt not to criticize. There is a time and a place for that.

This is the question. Do we know what 1st Peter 1:3 is all about. 
Holman Christian Standard Bible
3. Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. 

----------God had proposed to himself from the beginning of the world to open the way to Heaven for mankind through the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. 

Comments: the Messiah, the Christ of God if he does not die that cannot be accomplished. 

This is the New  Heavenly Inheritance for mankind in the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. 

This is what Paul preached in Philipi and this was the question of the warden to Paul. After all he witnessed with the earthquake and only the believers of Jesus Christ getting out of their cells.

He asked Paul Acts 16:31 What I must do to be saved ? how can I  be saved or how can I inherit the new Heavenly Inheritance. Or how to be saved from being a prisoner to the God of the dead Hades after death. 

Paul said: believe in Jesus Christ and you shall be saved and the invitation to believe in Jesus Christ is extended to anyone and that includes the members of your family. 

Take mote that the Warden was a Gentile. His Inheritance after death was different from the Jewish people before the New Covenant. 

 

Edited January 11 by Your closest friendnt

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

FreeGrace said:

I'm curious why some believers have such strange ideas about what happens to believers after death.  When I ask where their ideas are taught in the Bible, I get jo answers.  So it seems these believers just make up stuff.  Weird.

It's not that simple.

It is that simple.  The Bible has very clear verses in "plain language".  There should be no confusion about what happens to believers when they die.  

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

And it's not easy because the teachers are asking for obedience even blind obedience.

Then that's the problem:  teachers who are not teaching what the Bible says.  Where does the Bible teach "blind obedience"?  

I am very grateful that the Holy Spirit included Acts 17:11 - Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Application of this verse to EVERY teacher/pastor/etc will reveal whether they teach the truth or not.  If they can't provide verses that clearly say what they say, then they are false teachers.

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

But as we speak we should focus on the issues at hand and if we may see the need for criticism but we should opt not to criticize. There is a time and a place for that.

This is a forum.  For discussion.  So this is the time and place for criticizing what is not found in the Bible.

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is the question. Do we know what 1st Peter 1:3 is all about. 
Holman Christian Standard Bible
3. Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

Seems clear enough.  We praise God the Father, who through His great mercy, He gives us a new birth (being saved/born again/regenerated) into a living confidence that comes through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

iow, the resurrection of Christ proves the power behind the message of the gospel.

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 ----------God had proposed to himself from the beginning of the world to open the way to Heaven for mankind through the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross.

Well, to be complete, He made a way for mankind to go to heaven through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross.  By grace.

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 Comments: the Messiah, the Christ of God if he does not die that cannot be accomplished.

Correct.  All sin must be paid for or there can be no salvation.  But, Christ's death saves no one.  It is only by grace through faith that we are saved.  Eph 2:8

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is what Paul preached in Philipi and this was the question of the warden to Paul. After all he witnessed with the earthquake and only the believers of Jesus Christ getting out of their cells.

The text says that "everyone's chains came loose".  Not just the believers.  The jailer's question was clear; he asked what he MUST DO to be saved.  Paul's answer was equally clear:  believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

He asked Paul how can I  be saved or how can I inherit the new Heavenly Inheritance. Or how to be saved from being a prisoner to the God of the dead Hades after death.

His question was just the first above.  

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 Paul said: believe in Jesus Christ and you shall be saved and the invitation to believe in Jesus Christ is extended to anyone and that includes the members of your family. 

Amen.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

It is that simple.  The Bible has very clear verses in "plain language".  There should be no confusion about what happens to believers when they die.  

Then that's the problem:  teachers who are not teaching what the Bible says.  Where does the Bible teach "blind obedience"?  

I am very grateful that the Holy Spirit included Acts 17:11 - Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Application of this verse to EVERY teacher/pastor/etc will reveal whether they teach the truth or not.  If they can't provide verses that clearly say what they say, then they are false teachers.

This is a forum.  For discussion.  So this is the time and place for criticizing what is not found in the Bible.

Seems clear enough.  We praise God the Father, who through His great mercy, He gives us a new birth (being saved/born again/regenerated) into a living confidence that comes through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

iow, the resurrection of Christ proves the power behind the message of the gospel.

Well, to be complete, He made a way for mankind to go to heaven through faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross.  By grace.

Correct.  All sin must be paid for or there can be no salvation.  But, Christ's death saves no one.  It is only by grace through faith that we are saved.  Eph 2:8

The text says that "everyone's chains came loose".  Not just the believers.  The jailer's question was clear; he asked what he MUST DO to be saved.  Paul's answer was equally clear:  believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.

His question was just the first above.  

Amen.

In other words Peter is preaching that in Jesus Christ all things have been shaken, that all things are made knew. 

In Jesus Christ we are born into the New Covenant. We are living in the New Covenant. 

We are alive in the things that come with the New covenant and one of them is the Heavenly Inheritance. 

Is not something to come but we are already born we are alive in it, it is ours we are the heirs the door to Heaven in Jesus Christ is open. This is why Peter said that to die it is to be alive with the Lord to where he is. Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Peter said the same words Paul said in his mature years with the following words when the time to die was near. Peter said that the Lord has told him it is time to live this tabernacle behind and come to him as he had promised him and to everyone one who believes in him. Our earthly living is done with together with our earthly body. 

 

Edited January 11 by Your closest friendnt

[FreeGrace]

21 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

In other words Peter is preaching that in Jesus Christ all things have been shaken, that all things are made knew.

The "all things" is a reference to the resurrection body of all believers.

21 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

In Jesus Christ we are born into the New Covenant. We are living in the New Covenant. 

We are alive in the things that come with the New covenant and one of them is the Heavenly Inheritance.

Correct.

21 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Is not samething to come but we are already born we are alive it is ours we are the heirs the door to Heaven in Jesus Christ is open.

I don't know what you mean by the same thing.

21 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is why Peter said that to die it is to be alive with the Lord to where he is. Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Paul said it in 2 Cor 5:6,8.

21 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Peter said the same words Paul said in his mature years with the following words when the time to die was near. Peter said that the Lord has told him it is time to live this tabernacle behind and come to him as he had promised him.  To be with him to where he is. In my Father's house there many places and if they were not I am going there to prepare a place for you and I am coming to take you and be with me to where I am.

2nd Peter 1:14 

Berean Literal Bible
14 knowing that the putting off of my tabernacle is impending, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

King James Bible
14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

New King James Version
14 knowing that shortly I must put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me.

New American Standard Bible
14 knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.

2nd Corinthians 5:1

1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tabernacle, were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

ASV

1 For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.

AMP

1 For we know that if the earthly tent [our physical body] which is our house is torn down [through death], we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Yes, our resurrection body is waiting for us in heaven, to be given at the Second Advent.

[Your closest friendnt]

@FreeGrace

In other words Peter is preaching that in Jesus Christ all things have been shaken, that all things are made knew. 

In Jesus Christ we are born into the New Covenant. We are living in the New Covenant. 

We are alive in the things that come with the New covenant and one of them is the Heavenly Inheritance. 

Is not something to come but we are already born we are alive in it, it is ours we are the heirs the door to Heaven in Jesus Christ is open. This is why Peter said that to die it is to be alive with the Lord to where he is. Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Peter said the same words Paul said in his mature years with the following words when the time to die was near. Peter said that the Lord has told him it is time to live this tabernacle behind and come to him as he had promised him and to everyone one who believes in him. Our earthly living is done with together with our earthly body. 

 

Edited 9 minutes ago by Your closest friendnt 

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@FreeGrace

In other words Peter is preaching that in Jesus Christ all things have been shaken, that all things are made knew. 

In Jesus Christ we are born into the New Covenant. We are living in the New Covenant. 

We are alive in the things that come with the New covenant and one of them is the Heavenly Inheritance.

RIght.

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Is not something to come but we are already born we are alive in it, it is ours we are the heirs the door to Heaven in Jesus Christ is open.

We have been born again, , therefore children of God, and since children, heirs of God.  Rom 8:17a

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is why Peter said that to die it is to be alive with the Lord to where he is. Absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

I don't recall Peter writing this.  Paul did in 2 Cor 5:6,8.

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Peter said the same words Paul said in his mature years with the following words when the time to die was near. Peter said that the Lord has told him it is time to live this tabernacle behind and come to him as he had promised him and to everyone one who believes in him. Our earthly living is done with together with our earthly body. 

Yes, Peter knew his time was near and would die and go to be with the Lord.

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The "all things" is a reference to the resurrection body of all believers.

Correct.

I don't know what you mean by the same thing.

Paul said it in 2 Cor 5:6,8.

Yes, our resurrection body is waiting for us in heaven, to be given at the Second Advent.

@FreeGrace

I posted the passage from 2nd Corinthians 5:1  and your comments as in the last paragraph of your quote copy and paste and in bold is not what is written in 2nd Corinthians 5:1 you post 

@FreeGrace said: Yes, our resurrection body is waiting for us in heaven,   (5:1 says: we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.) 5:1 says: that as the people in our household are preparing our corpse to be deal with cremation or burial we are already in Heaven with our New Heavenly body (which has been waiting for us) what happened to you? You have been very good sticking to the factual context of the verses and even correcting along the way.  And suddenly you described factual context that is not in the verse.

The 5:1 says that our earthly body will be dissolved. This earthly tabernacle will be dissolved. It is clear and without any doubt that it says our earthly tabernacle will be dissolved.

But not too worry we have a Heavenly body waiting for us in Heaven and we will not be found naked. We have trade the earthly for the Heavenly. We must put off of the earthly as at death to be clothed with the Heavenly that's waiting for us in Heaven. 

This also below it does not belong in 5:1 verse

to be given at the Second Advent. ⁷ 

2nd Corinthians 5:1 

1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tabernacle, were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

 

Edited January 12 by Your closest friendnt

[FreeGrace]

26 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@FreeGrace

I posted the passage from 2nd Corinthians 5:1  and your comments as in the last paragraph of your quote copy and paste and in bold is not what is written in 2nd Corinthians 5:1 you post 

I referenced v.6 and 8 in 2 Cor 5.  

26 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

@FreeGrace said: Yes, our resurrection body is waiting for us in heaven,   (5:1 says: we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.) 5:1 says: that as the people in our household are preparing our corpse to be deal with cremation or burial we are already in Heaven with our New Heavenly body (which has been waiting for us) what happened to you? You have been very good sticking to the factual context of the verses and even correcting along the way.  And suddenly you described factual context that is not in the verse.

Unfortunately, it hasn't been easy following some of your points.  Trying to do my best.  2 Cor 5:1 doesn't say what you are saying above either.  There is nothing about people in our household preparing our corpse to be dealt with cremation/burial.  

The "building of God", is in heaven.  So I'm not sure of your point.

26 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The 5:1 says that our earthly body will be dissolved. This earthly tabernacle will be dissolved. It is clear and without any doubt that it says our earthly tabernacle will be dissolved.

In this verse, "dissolved" simply means to rot and decompose.

26 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

But not too worry we have a Heavenly body waiting for us in Heaven and we will not be found naked. We have trade the earthly for the Heavenly.

We don't "have to".  God takes care of it.  It's not our choice.

26 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

We must put off of the earthly as at death to be clothed with the Heavenly that's waiting for us in Heaven.

Rather, we "will put off our earthly body".  Not, we MUST.

26 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 This also below it does not belong in 5:1 verse

to be given at the Second Advent.

That is an expanded explanation for WHEN believers receive their resurrection bodies.

26 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

2nd Corinthians 5:1 

1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tabernacle, were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Yep.

[Johanabrahams]

The resurrection of the Child is the Resurrection of all of humanity.  In the Name and Life in Jesus Christ.  And we have to tell them and give all the opportunity to see it in Revelation.  Because this Revelation is their entrance in what happened where all experience it as a Reality. 

2 Cor. 5:  11 Knowing therefore the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, but we are made manifest unto God; and I hope that we are made manifest also in your consciences.  12 We are not again commending ourselves unto you, but speak as giving you occasion of glorying on our behalf, that ye may have wherewith to answer them that glory in appearance, and not in heart.  13 For whether we are beside ourselves, it is unto God; or whether we are of sober mind, it is unto you.  14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that one died for all, therefore all died;  15 and he died for all, that they that live should no longer live unto themselves, but unto him who for their sakes died and rose again.  16 Wherefore we henceforth know no man after the flesh: even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more.  17 Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new.  18 But all things are of God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and gave unto us the ministry of reconciliation;  19 to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 

  20 We are ambassadors therefore on behalf of Christ, as though God were entreating by us: we beseech you on behalf of Christ, be ye reconciled to God.  21 Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.

His resurrection is the "Last Adam" now on earth.   In whole of mankind. 

1 Cor. 15:35 But some one will say, How are the dead raised? and with what manner of body do they come?  36 Thou foolish one, that which thou thyself sowest is not quickened except it die:  37 and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not the body that shall be, but a bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other kind;  38 but God giveth it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own.  39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fishes.  40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.  41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.  42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:  43 it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:  44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.  45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.  46 Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.  47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven.  48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.  49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 
 

In Jesus mankind died and in Jesus mankind raised in the Name of Jesus as Spiritual Beings in the Life of the Living God.  And in Faith all can enter now when they see it Lived in those who entered first. Because of it being a New Life and not a religion it is a Witness of God's Glory in His Son now on earth.   Bringing Life to a dead human race in sin.   Where we meet with them in Meetings of 2 and 3 Persons and more all over the earth.