What land did God promise National Israel?

[Luther]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

What are your thoughts on the following? Israel is fully prepared to build the Temple during the Tribulation period or before, including the unblemished red heifer(s) Texas-bred.

In the millennium, during Christ’s rule and reign, Israel will continue with portions of the Mosaic Law and animal sacrifice (c.f. Isa. 56:7, Jer. 33:18, Zech. 14:16-21, Mal. 3:3, Eze. 40-48, etc.)

Born again Christians should reject any old covenant activity that has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. 

Colossians 3:1-2

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

[2]Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

There are two opposing views on the nature of the " millennium". Mostly all Christians believe it to be a literal event  (which appears to be your belief). Some believe that the phrase " thousand years", found only six times in Revelation 20 ( and nowhere else in relationship to this teaching) is to be understood allegorically or in a spiritual sense, not literally. (If interested, it would be my pleasure to explain what I believe ). 

I can tell you that the literal millennial reign teaching has only become accepted in the last hundred years (in our two  thousand year church history). The popularity of this teaching has a nefarious background. (I can also  expand on that later if you wish).

The bottom line is the Christian church has been fully indoctrinated by those who wish to control the Biblical narrative of the end times for political  (world) control, and have played on the hearts of unlearned Christians that mean well for their support (and oh how they support them). Because the ones who want to control this world have only this world, for they consider themselves to be God, according to their teachings. 

And this is where the battle is being fought. This world is not our home, and there are those who want you to think that Jesus wants to come back and hang around in this sin infested world for another thousand years. Let us all be ready, for when Jesus comes, there will be no more opportunity for salvation. 

[Luther]

10 hours ago, Anne2 said:

He is looking at nations today. God will judge the nations on how they treat Israel. That is the wrath fortold in the law. Genesis 17 the covenant of circumcision is a covenant of Mercy, and loving kindness.

Prophetic utterances in the law.

Israel will receive wrath. That is what Jesus came to save them from.

43  The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.
44  And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
45  But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.
46  These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

When He is finished punishing them

De 30:7  And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.

We escape this curse in Christ. Israel has not done anything to give cause for how that nation has been treated. But God will judge the nations by this. 

Paul rightly warned not to be cut off, they can be graffed in again.

You said: " He is looking at nations today. God will judge the nations on how they treat Israel. That is the wrath fortold in the law." 

Anne2, if you are referring to  Genesis 12:2-3:

And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

[3]And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

This is perhaps the main verse that has been manipulated or misinterpreted to promote the evil agenda of dispensationalism. It's evil simply because it's unBiblical.  Old Testament prophecy up until the last hundred years was always understood by the church fathers to be the FULFILLMENT, not the REPLACEMENT of Israel as the body of Christ, the Christian church. Ultimately the religion of the God of Israel IS Christianity. 

The " prophetic utterances in the law" have their fulfillment in those who follow Christ in the new covenant, not those who reject Him in the old covenant. Jesus didn't sacrifice Himself only to come back to honor those who rejected Him.

That's the  twisted trap of this " literal millennial reign teaching". Christians are being led to believe that national Israel still has relevance in God's salvation plan and they don't. They just don't. Christians are under what I call the " Scofield spell", and the only way to break free is to STOP trusting in your Rabbi/ Pastor for critical theology and go to the Bible yourself. 

Getting back to Genesis 12:2-3. Notice:  "I will bless thee ( you), and make thy (your) name great"......" I will bless them that bless thee ( you) , and curse them that curseth thee ( you). 

God's blessing and curse has everything to do with ABRAHAM, not a nation of people:

Galatians 3:8-9

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

[9]So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

We ( all nations), are not blessed with  "faithful " Israel. Israel was not faithful to God. They rejected their Messiah. But  "Abraham and his seed" ( all in Jesus Christ) inherit  the promises as foretold in the old covenant. When we read "All the land of Canaan" (Genesis 17:8), for example, this is a "prophetic utterance" for Christians concerning their final destination, the kingdom of God. 

And there was a remnant of the ancient Israelites saved by grace. But Jesus coming the second time to save a whole nation of people? No. You must be ready for Jesus now, because the greatest deception is to believe you'll have a thousand years after He comes to get right with Him. 

Please let me know what you think. 

 

 

[Luther]

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Every man I've met who doesn't agree with God's Word has a reason to make it metaphorical. So if God's Words are "spirit and life" and therefore to be taken metaphorically, your following conclusions must be explained.

Explain a metaphorical Holy Spirit and a metaphorical Life?
Explain what a metaphorical "two" is, and how it applies to metaphorical "houses"?
What is a metaphorical Covenant. What is metaphorical "New", or metaphorical Egypt?
What is a metaphorical demon and metaphorical Satan?

And since God did not lead a real Israel out of real Egypt, with their real "fathers" and gave them a real Covenant, why do you think that God would go to such lengths of 40 authors over 1,200 years to tell us a metaphorical story.

A massive absurdity.

I tell you brother, if you once decide that Israel was, and is, a physical Nation which received the Covenants and Oracles of God (Rom.3:2, 9:4), we'll talk. In the meantime continue the search for where the Church is bound by a Covenant of Law. It will be quite time consuming since Ephesians 2:15 says the opposite. But beware. The Lord Himself stated that not one jot or tittle will pass UNTIL heaven and earth pass, and promised in Luke 22 that he would feast the Passover when He returned to earth.

What I desire most is to have harmony and cohesiveness in God's word. All of us should. The thought of spiritual interpretation to many  sounds fringe or mystical, where everyone is going to have a different view on scripture based upon a personal feeling or a private interpretation. God clears the misconceptions in His word:

1 Corinthians 2:12-13

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

[13]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

When we are born of the Spirit of God, He guides us into many spiritual truths in scripture, if we patiently wait on Him. And God will reveal what He chooses to His people in His time. 

That's why there is fellowship like this. None of us know everything, but we can build upon a sure foundation. 

The Bible is first and foremost a spiritual book, for instructing God's people. In it's historical and moral teachings we can trust it completely as well. God's salvation plan is ultimately spiritual, we go to heaven, a very spiritual place. 

God uses historical events to put us on this journey. The most relevant truth we can learn about historical, national Israel is what they represent spiritually to mankind. 

I believe that God created Old Testament national Israel to be a representation of His kingdom on earth. The people were commanded to obey His law perfectly in order to remain His chosen people. Sadly, they rejected Him and served other gods. Which all of humanity would do. Hence the need for a Savior.

Praise be to God for His mercy. Mysteriously in His foreknowledge, before the world began, He chose a people for Himself to be with Him into eternity. He did this because we do not seek after Him. Our sins have separated us from God. 

So all was not lost in Old Testament Israel. People like Samuel, Malachi, Jacob, David, etc.  were chosen or elect according to God's grace, just as we were on the other side of the Cross. We all have one very critical thing in common: Our sins were paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ. 

This is what matters. Not what you are witnessing over there in Israel. They have nothing to do with God's predetermined plan of salvation. It's really all theater if you ask me. 

 

[Anne2]

4 hours ago, Luther said:

You said: " He is looking at nations today. God will judge the nations on how they treat Israel. That is the wrath fortold in the law." 

Anne2, if you are referring to  Genesis 12:2-3:

And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

[3]And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

No, I quoted the verse from Leviticus 26. That was my bad to not give the book and chapter. sorry. My bible software contains multiple windows and some auto do that , but some do not. I don't know why that is but I should have Checked. Sorry

Leviticus and Deuteronomy both have prophesies of wrath, curses, plagues etc to the nation of Israel.

Having said that, when the Gospels are read do we read it according to this.

Ro 2:12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Ga 3:12  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

The Jews were coming under the wrathful judgements of the law they were under. 

Jews not gentiles are judged by the law....

John's Baptism

Mt 11:13  For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Therefore 

Mth 15:22  And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23  But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24  But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25  Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26  But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
To attempt to read into the gospels, no mosaic judgement is how People also read into Paul mosaic law for faith...

Ga 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Ga 5:3  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
 

4 hours ago, Luther said:

This is perhaps the main verse that has been manipulated or misinterpreted to promote the evil agenda of dispensationalism. It's evil simply because it's unBiblical.  Old Testament prophecy up until the last hundred years was always understood by the church fathers to be the FULFILLMENT, not the REPLACEMENT of Israel as the body of Christ, the Christian church. Ultimately the religion of the God of Israel IS Christianity.

I agree. A similar thing is done when we do not read the Gospels to the Jews as a people coming under Judgement of the law. These same seem to never discuss the wrath that John preached as a Judgement of the law to the JEWS (the circumcsion).....

Wrath, cursing, plagues......

Mt 3:7  But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Lu 3:7  Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Lu 4:28  And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
Lu 21:23  But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Joh 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Being saved from that wicked generation. 

Acts 2:36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 ¶  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40  And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
 

The above was said before Even knowing Gentiles would be called. Who perish apart from the law. 

Ro 2:12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
 

Not insisting I am right. I just am trying to get you to know where I am coming from.

The covenant of circumcision is not what brings wrath. To Abraham It is a sign and seal of the faith that he had before he was circumcised.

Edited January 12 by Anne2

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, Luther said:

What I desire most is to have harmony and cohesiveness in God's word. All of us should. The thought of spiritual interpretation to many  sounds fringe or mystical, where everyone is going to have a different view on scripture based upon a personal feeling or a private interpretation. God clears the misconceptions in His word:

1 Corinthians 2:12-13

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

[13]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

When we are born of the Spirit of God, He guides us into many spiritual truths in scripture, if we patiently wait on Him. And God will reveal what He chooses to His people in His time. 

That's why there is fellowship like this. None of us know everything, but we can build upon a sure foundation. 

The Bible is first and foremost a spiritual book, for instructing God's people. In it's historical and moral teachings we can trust it completely as well. God's salvation plan is ultimately spiritual, we go to heaven, a very spiritual place. 

God uses historical events to put us on this journey. The most relevant truth we can learn about historical, national Israel is what they represent spiritually to mankind. 

I believe that God created Old Testament national Israel to be a representation of His kingdom on earth. The people were commanded to obey His law perfectly in order to remain His chosen people. Sadly, they rejected Him and served other gods. Which all of humanity would do. Hence the need for a Savior.

Praise be to God for His mercy. Mysteriously in His foreknowledge, before the world began, He chose a people for Himself to be with Him into eternity. He did this because we do not seek after Him. Our sins have separated us from God. 

So all was not lost in Old Testament Israel. People like Samuel, Malachi, Jacob, David, etc.  were chosen or elect according to God's grace, just as we were on the other side of the Cross. We all have one very critical thing in common: Our sins were paid for by the Lord Jesus Christ. 

This is what matters. Not what you are witnessing over there in Israel. They have nothing to do with God's predetermined plan of salvation. It's really all theater if you ask me. 

 

Thank you for your very level answer and for stating what you believe. If I am to embrace your belief, I am without hope.
1. God's design is to say one thing and mean another
2. God made Israel, Paul's "brethren according to the FLESH" a "spiritual Nation to provide a spiritual example"
3 In your example of 1st Corinthians 2 you say that the rebirth opens the door for special revelation in God's time. Yet the Corinthians are castigated for not understanding. Where then is this special understanding? The Thessalonians, according to 1st Thessalonians 1 and 3, are a model Church. Yet they need explaining the physical rapture? Has God's system failed, or is it a case that we have His Word and that this word says what it says and can be studied.
4. Apollos is called by scripture a great teacher, yet his teaching on Baptism held up the Church in Ephesus. God then does not send revelation, but two informed saints to rectify the false doctrine
5. If the Bible is allegorical and says something mysterious that needs spiritual understanding, why not scrap the Book altogether. After all, it is the Spirit informing our spirits
6. Our Lord Jesus, providing the way to deal with God and our enemy - the Devil - says in defense; "It is written ... It is written ... It is written ... ! But what does that help when the Devil needs special revelation?
7. In Acts the Bereans are applauded by Luke under inspiration for being open to the Word and checking the written version. How come when insight is spiritually gained?
8. Why dos God weave a perfectly logical and feasible narrative about Israel with all te loopholes accounted for, and then trash it all by declaring that it has another meaning?

These are just soem of many possible objections. I see the Bible as an accurate historical account that shows God's recovery of man and the creature. he starts with one man, who, having all the elect in his loins, is given Promises. These are real and literal promises which have, or will, come to pass literally and accurately.

God's Word is literal and accurate and when He wants to illustrate something by Nature, a Parable, a Type or an Allegory, He states so, or the Words form an absurdity. 2nd Peter 1:20 forbids private interpretation. What then is left to explain obscure scriptures? Why, the Bible perfectly explains itself.

Where the Spirit is needed is formulating the Word by an inspired author. His job then is to bring to remembrance ALL that Jesus said so that we understand John 21:11 by 2nd Chronicles 2:17 (for example) - that the disciples would be fishers of men and whereas the net broke when fishing for Israel, this time the Nations (153) are caught by "the fishers of men"!

Scripture explains scripture. God's Words are real and comprehensible and the Spirit is needed to overcome blindness and stumbling blocks. God's Words are already "Spirit and Life". Spiritual understanding is to bring them out of obscurity - not compound the confusion.

[Luther]

1 hour ago, Anne2 said:

No, I quoted the verse from Leviticus 26. That was my bad to not give the book and chapter. sorry. My bible software contains multiple windows and some auto do that , but some do not. I don't know why that is but I should have Checked. Sorry

Leviticus and Deuteronomy both have prophesies of wrath, curses, plagues etc to the nation of Israel.

Having said that, when the Gospels are read do we read it according to this.

Ro 2:12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Ga 3:12  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

The Jews were coming under the wrathful judgements of the law they were under. 

Jews not gentiles are judged by the law....

John's Baptism

Mt 11:13  For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Therefore 

Mth 15:22  And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23  But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24  But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25  Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26  But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
To attempt to read into the gospels, no mosaic judgement is how People also read into Paul mosaic law for faith...

Ga 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Ga 5:3  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
 

I agree. A similar thing is done when we do not read the Gospels to the Jews as a people coming under Judgement of the law. These same seem to never discuss the wrath that John preached as a Judgement of the law to the JEWS (the circumcsion).....

Wrath, cursing, plagues......

Mt 3:7  But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Lu 3:7  Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Lu 4:28  And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
Lu 21:23  But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Joh 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Being saved from that wicked generation. 

Acts 2:36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 ¶  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40  And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
 

The above was said before Even knowing Gentiles would be called. Who perish apart from the law. 

Ro 2:12  For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
 

Not insisting I am right. I just am trying to get you to know where I am coming from.

The covenant of circumcision is not what brings wrath. To Abraham It is a sign and seal of the faith that he had before he was circumcised.

Romans 2:13-15

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

[14]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

[15]Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

John 1:17

[17]For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John 3:21

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Hebrews 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

I think it all leads up to the law of God being written in our hearts, and it would apply to Jews and gentiles. 

[Anne2]

2 minutes ago, Luther said:

Romans 2:13-15

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

[14]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

[15]Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

John 1:17

[17]For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John 3:21

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Hebrews 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

I think it all leads up to the law of God being written in our hearts, and it would apply to Jews and gentiles. 

Yes. Abraham kept law, before Moses law was.

Rom 3:26  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.Rom 4:21  And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22  And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 ¶  Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24  But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

 

[Luther]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Thank you for your very level answer and for stating what you believe. If I am to embrace your belief, I am without hope.
1. God's design is to say one thing and mean another
2. God made Israel, Paul's "brethren according to the FLESH" a "spiritual Nation to provide a spiritual example"
3 In your example of 1st Corinthians 2 you say that the rebirth opens the door for special revelation in God's time. Yet the Corinthians are castigated for not understanding. Where then is this special understanding? The Thessalonians, according to 1st Thessalonians 1 and 3, are a model Church. Yet they need explaining the physical rapture? Has God's system failed, or is it a case that we have His Word and that this word says what it says and can be studied.
4. Apollos is called by scripture a great teacher, yet his teaching on Baptism held up the Church in Ephesus. God then does not send revelation, but two informed saints to rectify the false doctrine
5. If the Bible is allegorical and says something mysterious that needs spiritual understanding, why not scrap the Book altogether. After all, it is the Spirit informing our spirits
6. Our Lord Jesus, providing the way to deal with God and our enemy - the Devil - says in defense; "It is written ... It is written ... It is written ... ! But what does that help when the Devil needs special revelation?
7. In Acts the Bereans are applauded by Luke under inspiration for being open to the Word and checking the written version. How come when insight is spiritually gained?
8. Why dos God weave a perfectly logical and feasible narrative about Israel with all te loopholes accounted for, and then trash it all by declaring that it has another meaning?

These are just soem of many possible objections. I see the Bible as an accurate historical account that shows God's recovery of man and the creature. he starts with one man, who, having all the elect in his loins, is given Promises. These are real and literal promises which have, or will, come to pass literally and accurately.

God's Word is literal and accurate and when He wants to illustrate something by Nature, a Parable, a Type or an Allegory, He states so, or the Words form an absurdity. 2nd Peter 1:20 forbids private interpretation. What then is left to explain obscure scriptures? Why, the Bible perfectly explains itself.

Where the Spirit is needed is formulating the Word by an inspired author. His job then is to bring to remembrance ALL that Jesus said so that we understand John 21:11 by 2nd Chronicles 2:17 (for example) - that the disciples would be fishers of men and whereas the net broke when fishing for Israel, this time the Nations (153) are caught by "the fishers of men"!

Scripture explains scripture. God's Words are real and comprehensible and the Spirit is needed to overcome blindness and stumbling blocks. God's Words are already "Spirit and Life". Spiritual understanding is to bring them out of obscurity - not compound the confusion.

1 Corinthians 2:12-16

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

[13]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

[14]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[15]But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

[16]For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

I believe what I read. I'm not in the park standing on a bench clutching a Bible yelling at everyone as they walk by. Grounded in the faith. 

[AdHoc]

17 hours ago, Luther said:

1 Corinthians 2:12-16

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

[13]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

[14]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[15]But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

[16]For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

I believe what I read. I'm not in the park standing on a bench clutching a Bible yelling at everyone as they walk by. Grounded in the faith. 

O.K. Suppose  I agree that because God's Words are spirit and life we are to allegorize them. What then is the meaning, the true meaning, of the above passage?

[AdHoc]

17 hours ago, Luther said:

Romans 2:13-15

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

[14]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

[15]Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

John 1:17

[17]For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John 3:21

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Hebrews 8:10

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

I think it all leads up to the law of God being written in our hearts, and it would apply to Jews and gentiles. 

Brother, we speak of a Covenant. The terms of this Covenant is God's Law, which, exclusively in the Old Testament, means the Law of Moses. To the heathen, via Noah, "with all flesh" (Gen.9:17) we may eat anything but blood. The adept of Moses not. Many foods are forbidden.

Then we have Peter, a devout Jew, having never eaten what the Law declares as "unclean", commanded to eat such creeping things by the Lord. Is not the "work of the Law in gentiles a result of eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Scripture says they do it "BY NATURE" not by COVENANT.

And in Hebrews 8 notice the change. It is no longer "OUR mind" but "THEIR mind", "THEIR hearts" and "I will be to THEM a God". Obviously another party than "those of the heavenly calling" (3:1).