This is my understanding to why grace cannot be earned. I have given an illustration to explain my thoughts..

[Who me]

On 1/16/2025 at 2:04 PM, Fran C said:

No transformation....no salvation

Salvation is not based on our lives being changed. Which is why the repentant thief is a good example. 

Yes we are not currently dying so as Jesus said, " If you Love me, obey my commands. "

Or James by my works I will show my faith.

 

Salvation is not learnt or deserved, good works are only a gesture  of love for Jesus.

[Fran C]

1 hour ago, Who me said:

Salvation is not based on our lives being changed. Which is why the repentant thief is a good example. 

Yes we are not currently dying so as Jesus said, " If you Love me, obey my commands. "

Or James by my works I will show my faith.

 

Salvation is not learnt or deserved, good works are only a gesture  of love for Jesus.

If salvation is not based on a transformed life...

could you please explain the following verse?:

Transformation means to change from one thing to another...it's the change that is required of us to live a life pleasing to God.

Romans 12:2

2Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

 

2 Corinthians 5:17

17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

 

2 Corinthians 3:18

18And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. 

 

1 John 3:3

3And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

 

There are many more if needed.  You're saying that a transformed life is not necessary in order to be pleasing to God.  Have I understood correctly??  Could you post some verses to support this view?  Thanks.

[Vine Abider]

5 hours ago, Fran C said:

You're saying that a transformed life is not necessary in order to be pleasing to God.  Have I understood correctly??  Could you post some verses to support this view?  Thanks.

There are various stages of salvation.  There is the initial birth, and then the growth, and then becoming full grown.  We really don't do much except believe, be open and cooperate with Him.  That is initially, we believe Jesus is the Christ and become open to Him coming to dwell in us; and ongoing, we still must believe in Him and then let Him operate in us, which causes us to grow and be transformed into full-grown sons of God.

All these stages do require our cooperation.  If a person refuses physical food, they will become malnourished and eventually die.  It is the same spiritually - if we don't cooperate and let His life live through us, we will become stunted and puny Christians (although we won't die completely, as His eternal life is birthed in us).

As to God's satisfaction, I see it like this: He always loves His children, even when they are babies soiling their pants.  However, His desire and good pleasure is that we become full-grown in Christ and no longer babes (soiling our pants, complaining & doing little profitable).  If someone "shrinks back," He has no pleasure in that.  Yet He loves us as His children, and will do what He can to help us grow . . . but ultimately, the choice is ours whether we let Him grow and operate in us (and we will be sized-up accordingly, as to how much genuine profit we've gained, at the Bema Seat of Christ). 

 

[Fran C]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

There are various stages of salvation.  There is the initial birth, and then the growth, and then becoming full grown.  We really don't do much except believe, be open and cooperate with Him.  That is initially, we believe Jesus is the Christ and become open to Him coming to dwell in us; and ongoing, we still must believe in Him and then let Him operate in us, which causes us to grow and be transformed into full-grown sons of God.

All these stages do require our cooperation.  If a person refuses physical food, they will become malnourished and eventually die.  It is the same spiritually - if we don't cooperate and let His life live through us, we will become stunted and puny Christians (although we won't die completely, as His eternal life is birthed in us).

As to God's satisfaction, I see it like this: He always loves His children, even when they are babies soiling their pants.  However, His desire and good pleasure is that we become full-grown in Christ and no longer babes (soiling our pants, complaining & doing little profitable). 

Agreed on all.  It's difficult to post every little thing you believe in every single post....I was concentrating on what I thought someone said about being born again but showing no transformation.  (maybe they meant never).

 

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

 

If someone "shrinks back," He has no pleasure in that.  Yet He loves us as His children, and will do what He can to help us grow . . .

Agreed again.  The Holy Spirit will work in us as long as we allow Him to.

We don't lose our free will when we become saved.

 

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

 

but ultimately, the choice is ours whether we let Him grow and operate in us (and we will be sized-up accordingly, as to how much genuine profit we've gained, at the Bema Seat of Christ). 

 

The above is more re the point I was making.  IF we don't let God grow us and operate in us, doesn't that mean that we have not accepted Him?

The change might be gradual or it might be over-night (as in some cases), but the change SHOULD be seen in a person.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

There are various stages of salvation.  There is the initial birth, and then the growth, and then becoming full grown.  We really don't do much except believe, be open and cooperate with Him.  That is initially, we believe Jesus is the Christ and become open to Him coming to dwell in us; and ongoing, we still must believe in Him and then let Him operate in us, which causes us to grow and be transformed into full-grown sons of God.

All these stages do require our cooperation.  If a person refuses physical food, they will become malnourished and eventually die.  It is the same spiritually - if we don't cooperate and let His life live through us, we will become stunted and puny Christians (although we won't die completely, as His eternal life is birthed in us).

As to God's satisfaction, I see it like this: He always loves His children, even when they are babies soiling their pants.  However, His desire and good pleasure is that we become full-grown in Christ and no longer babes (soiling our pants, complaining & doing little profitable).  If someone "shrinks back," He has no pleasure in that.  Yet He loves us as His children, and will do what He can to help us grow . . . but ultimately, the choice is ours whether we let Him grow and operate in us (and we will be sized-up accordingly, as to how much genuine profit we've gained, at the Bema Seat of Christ). 

 

The important message in the Gospel is that no matter at what stage or at what group any believer is to know that he is alive to Jesus Christ. In his blood and in his name when he is alive and at the time in his death and from that time on forever more. 

[Vine Abider]

44 minutes ago, Fran C said:

The above is more re the point I was making.  IF we don't let God grow us and operate in us, doesn't that mean that we have not accepted Him?

The change might be gradual or it might be over-night (as in some cases), but the change SHOULD be seen in a person.

It is interesting . . . He does it all for us and when we accept Him He comes to live in us, but He is still gentle and doesn't violate our free will after accepting Him and becoming His children.  So yes, we actually still get the choice to turn to Him or not daily.  And yet, His love and atonement is so complete that even when His children don't want Him, there is no condemnation!  Of course, if we don't turn to Him and allow Him to operate in us, then there is little growth or profit either . . .

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

(and we will be sized-up accordingly, as to how much genuine profit we've gained, at the Bema Seat of Christ). 

 

This one is way far from what we read in the bible at  100%.

 

[Vine Abider]

1 minute ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This one is way far from what we read in the bible at  100%.

 

How so?  (you know I have to ask)

[Your closest friendnt]

5 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

How so?  (you know I have to ask)

Let's study this one together. If you can elaborate a little more in what you said earlier that I took an objection to it. I will appreciate it.

 2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

(and we will be sized-up accordingly, as to how much genuine profit we've gained, at the Bema Seat of Christ). 

Edited January 20 by Your closest friendnt

[Fran C]

9 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Let's study this one together. If you can elaborate a little more in what you said earlier that I took an objection to it. I will appreciate it.

 2 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

(and we will be sized-up accordingly, as to how much genuine profit we've gained, at the Bema Seat of Christ). 

The above is not for me but for @Vine Abider.

but....do you believe that saved persons will be judged after death?

What will they be judged for if they're already saved?