Trouble On Earth And Pitfalls To Avoid

[Michael37]

The Apostle Paul. Synonymous with Trouble. Synonymous also with Perseverance.

So much trouble, but not more than faith in God and belief in Jesus Christ can get us through. 

Paul didn't have a collection of Bibles complete with 66 books, cross-references and footnotes. He didn't have the internet with access to an abundance of images, news and information.   

Christian assemblies are typically made up of people who have, or have had, trouble on earth. I'm no exception. I'm braced to face trouble. A lot of my troubles have actually come as a result of my associations. James 1 speaks of "falling into various trials", 

περιπίπτω
peripiptō
per-ee-pip'-to
From G4012 and G4098; to fall into something that is all around, that is, light among or upon, be surrounded with: - fall among (into).
Total KJV occurrences: 3

Act 9:13-16  Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.  (14)  And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."  (15)  But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.  (16)  For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
Act 20:22-23  And see, now I go bound in the spirit to Jerusalem, not knowing the things that will happen to me there,  (23)  except that the Holy Spirit testifies in every city, saying that chains and tribulations await me.
2Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
 

• John 16:33 (NKJV): "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

• Psalm 34:19 (NKJV): "Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all."

• Romans 8:18 (NKJV): "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

• James 1:2-4 (NKJV): "My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing."

• 2 Corinthians 4:8-9 (NKJV): "We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed."

• Psalm 46:1 (NKJV): "God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble."

Does anyone else beside me make a concerted effort to avoid known pitfalls in Christian assemblies? 

Just the other day I mentioned someone we spoke to in passing as "looking for an argument" and someone to be wary of. 

[enoob57]

The deepest consideration of my heart in this is
1 Corinthians 8:2 (KJV)

[2] And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

The desperation of right thinking lays only upon the gift of God to do so...

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

The desperation of right thinking lays only upon the gift of God to do so...

This reminds me of something Dr. Jason Lisle discussed in his book "The Ultimate Proof Of Creation". 

"In fact, if (for the sake of argument) naturalism were true, you couldn’t have laws of logic anyway since they are not a part of nature. You say you only believe things observed by your senses; if that’s true, then you can’t believe in laws of logic since they cannot be observed by the senses. Logical reasoning would be impossible if your beliefs were true. So why do you ask me to be logical? Laws of logic only make sense if biblical creation is true."

[enoob57]

18 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

This reminds me of something Dr. Jason Lisle discussed in his book "The Ultimate Proof Of Creation". 

"In fact, if (for the sake of argument) naturalism were true, you couldn’t have laws of logic anyway since they are not a part of nature. You say you only believe things observed by your senses; if that’s true, then you can’t believe in laws of logic since they cannot be observed by the senses. Logical reasoning would be impossible if your beliefs were true. So why do you ask me to be logical? Laws of logic only make sense if biblical creation is true."

no brother of mine... what I am saying if none of this is being kept not even in memory... What do we have but that of promise without conclusion of what we know! 
Matthew 19:14 (KJV)

[14] But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

In reality it is absence of self in the perfection of God that will be... but as yet is not known!
1 John 3:2 (KJV)

[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[BibleStudent100]

13 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Does anyone else beside me make a concerted effort to avoid known pitfalls in Christian assemblies? 

Hi Michael.  Could you explain again what your argument is?  Are you speaking about assembling together?  I am reminded of Hebrews 10:24,25: "Do not forsake the gathering of themselves together, as some had the custom."  Let that not become our custom, for young and old alike benefit greatly from regular presence at Christian meetings.  Or perhaps I misread your thoughts.
 

[Alive]

14 hours ago, Michael37 said:

The Apostle Paul. Synonymous with Trouble. Synonymous also with Perseverance.

So much trouble, but not more than faith in God and belief in Jesus Christ can get us through. 

Paul didn't have a collection of Bibles complete with 66 books, cross-references and footnotes. He didn't have the internet with access to an abundance of images, news and information.   

Christian assemblies are typically made up of people who have, or have had, trouble on earth. I'm no exception. I'm braced to face trouble. A lot of my troubles have actually come as a result of my associations. James 1 speaks of "falling into various trials", 

περιπίπτω
peripiptō
per-ee-pip'-to
From G4012 and G4098; to fall into something that is all around, that is, light among or upon, be surrounded with: - fall among (into).
Total KJV occurrences: 3

Act 9:13-16  Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.  (14)  And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."  (15)  But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.  (16)  For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
Act 20:22-23  And see, now I go bound in the spirit to Jerusalem, not knowing the things that will happen to me there,  (23)  except that the Holy Spirit testifies in every city, saying that chains and tribulations await me.
2Co 12:7  And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
 

• John 16:33 (NKJV): "These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

• Psalm 34:19 (NKJV): "Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all."

• Romans 8:18 (NKJV): "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

• James 1:2-4 (NKJV): "My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing."

• 2 Corinthians 4:8-9 (NKJV): "We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed."

• Psalm 46:1 (NKJV): "God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble."

Does anyone else beside me make a concerted effort to avoid known pitfalls in Christian assemblies? 

Just the other day I mentioned someone we spoke to in passing as "looking for an argument" and someone to be wary of. 

Yes. There are a great many to avoid.

[Michael37]

7 hours ago, BibleStudent100 said:

Hi Michael.  Could you explain again what your argument is?  Are you speaking about assembling together?  I am reminded of Hebrews 10:24,25: "Do not forsake the gathering of themselves together, as some had the custom."  Let that not become our custom, for young and old alike benefit greatly from regular presence at Christian meetings.  Or perhaps I misread your thoughts.
 

Firstly, I love the assembling of the saints together.

Secondly, Christian congregations and communities come with pitfalls to avoid, as per the letters to the seven ekklesias in Revelation, and various other things warned of in Scripture. 

• Hypocrisy: Jesus often rebuked the Pharisees for their hypocrisy, emphasizing the importance of genuine faith and integrity (Matthew 23).

• Division: The apostle Paul wrote extensively about unity within the church, urging believers to avoid divisions and strive for harmony (1 Corinthians 1:10).

• Judgment: Jesus taught about the dangers of judgmental attitudes, encouraging believers to focus on their own shortcomings rather than condemning others (Matthew 7:1-5).

• False Teaching: The NT warns against false prophets and teachers who distort the gospel message (2 Peter 2). Believers are encouraged to discern and adhere to sound doctrine.

• Favoritism: James admonishes against showing partiality or favoritism within the community, advocating for equal treatment of all members (James 2:1-9).

• Gossip and Slander: Paul advises believers to avoid harmful speech that can damage relationships and unity within the church (Ephesians 4:29-32).

• Neglecting Love: Paul emphasizes that love should be the foundation of all Christian actions, without which, other deeds are meaningless (1 Corinthians 13).

• Neglecting Personal Spiritual Growth: The NT encourages believers to grow in their faith and knowledge of Christ, avoiding complacency in their spiritual journey (2 Peter 3:18).

Forgiveness is paramount in any congregation or community.

[Sower]

On 1/16/2025 at 4:01 PM, Michael37 said:

Does anyone else beside me make a concerted effort to avoid known pitfalls in Christian assemblies? 

My wife and I have only been members of one assembly our 45 yrs as christians, so I can not respond with any experiences of other assemblies. Not that I have never encountered others complain about their church and the problems, especially here on this forum.

Seems like an assembly is like a family with similar problems arising off and on. They can be worked out, or not. Feelings may get hurt for simple things and today the solution is leave to another assembly or just quit going all together.

The only thing I would consider for leaving would be false teaching on core doctrines. The other problems, with a good shepherd, would be to get together and see what God says about reasoning together and biblically work it out. But that takes mature believers humbling themselves to the will of scripture.

I'm sure that to some degree our church body has experienced all on your list at some time in it's 140 yr history. Yet God's will prevailed and people are still being discipled and many continue to be saved. Family ties can be strong, in the Lord.

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, Sower said:

My wife and I have only been members of one assembly our 45 yrs as Christians, so I can not respond with any experiences of other assemblies. Not that I have never encountered others complain about their church and the problems, especially here on this forum.

Seems like an assembly is like a family with similar problems arising off and on. They can be worked out, or not. Feelings may get hurt for simple things and today the solution is leave to another assembly or just quit going all together.

The only thing I would consider for leaving would be false teaching on core doctrines. The other problems, with a good shepherd, would be to get together and see what God says about reasoning together and biblically work it out. But that takes mature believers humbling themselves to the will of scripture.

I'm sure that to some degree our church body has experienced all on your list at some time in it's 140 yr history. Yet God's will prevailed and people are still being discipled and many continue to be saved. Family ties can be strong, in the Lord.

It could be said that you have personally avoided becoming a foolish Galatian,

Gal 3:1-2  O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?  (2)  This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?—

and have walked circumspectly as wise, something Paul hoped the Ephesians would do,

Eph 5:15-16  See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise,  (16)  redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

A.M.E.N. - A Meeting Every Night

One pitfall of ministry in an ekklesia is overwork. 
 

[Marston]

On 1/16/2025 at 4:01 PM, Michael37 said:

Does anyone else beside me make a concerted effort to avoid known pitfalls in Christian assemblies? 

I enjoy being in Christian group settings for the purpose of fellowship and helping others. I've heard people discussing doctrinal beliefs and I avoid those discussions because I've seen some get heated and divisive.