Pretrib Rapture is a Lie

[Edward429451]

1 hour ago, Locust said:

not so sure how a spirit body gets raptured . personally you's guys get a bit to  excited about some one being taken to heaven when your selves remain here on earth as flesh and bone. 

 

I don't know how God does it but it happens. I have heard so many testimonies of people who were taken up in spirit that it isnt funny. They all can't be lying. Some have said, they seemed to have solid bodies while they were in heaven. You see I am a spirit. I have a soul. I live in a flesh body. 

I'm not overly excited that I have never been taken up yet. I am somewhat provoked to jealousy of others who have though! That would be very cool! 

[Locust]

2 minutes ago, Edward429451 said:

I don't know how God does it but it happens. I have heard so many testimonies of people who were taken up in spirit that it isnt funny.

you'd think they would all have the same experience, but no 

[Vine Abider]

On 1/21/2025 at 5:52 AM, BornAgain490 said:

I know the pretribulation rapture better than most: it's a doctrine of man that is filled with scrpture-twisting and unbiblical assumptions. In short: it's a deception, but it appeals to the flesh, and it tickles the ear, which is why so many sinners love to hear it preached. 

To me, the whole when-is-the-rapture dispute is like many doctrinal discussions, in which people will camp-out in one side or the other.  It's a lot like the free-will vs predestination or grace vs works wrangle.  Each side will quote the verses that seem to support their opinion, usually to the exclusion of other verses and passages that don't seem to line up with their particular perspective.  On and on and on the particular dispute goes . . .

But I think "perspective" is a good word here - to illustrate consider the well-known blind men describing an elephant parable:  One blind man feels its leg and says the elephant is like a tree; another feels its trunk and says it's like a large snake; the third blind man feels its side and proclaims that it is like a wall. The three of them then get into a protracted argument, until someone else explains to them that they were all just perceiving the elephant's features from a certain, limited perspective.

I think if we are honest, we will say there are verses indicating both pre-trib and post-trib (and even some seemingly indicating mid-trib).  One biblical allegory that appears to bring all these together, would be that of ripening fruit.  That is, in any crop, there are first fruits and later the general harvest, as is presented in Revelation 14.

[Locust]

first of the 144K  to be called to heaven are the ones that have all ready died. they go first, for now each ones ,yet living ,that does die they are taken to heaven .

how many are already there cant be known. 

[Edward429451]

2 hours ago, Locust said:

you'd think they would all have the same experience, but no 

Well different people get shown different things by the Lord but some aspects of being taken up are similar in some ways. 

Many of them say the same things about how they feel about it when they was there. And they all say it feels more like home than anything on this planet and most of them dont want to leave heaven but are sent back! 

There is zillions of Testimony videos on Youtube. And the things to watch for to determine the testimonial credibility is, They can't say anything that would disagree with any portion of scripture. Plus, I've got a background in reading body language and it's actually pretty easy most of the time to spot credibility or incongruity in body language. 

Now I have never seen with my eyes heaven or Jesus or anything supernatural. But the Lord did speak audibly to me one time  and that was quite memorable! I have a bunch of testimonies where the Lord did a lot of stuff for me supernaturally. Not, part the Red Sea level but economy sized for an individual. 

I had an Angel come to my Garage Sale and almost buy me out! 

My two grown sons were living with me temporarily and got into a knock down drag out fight and woke me up early so I went out there to break it up and one of them got especially disrespectful to me, so I decked him. He called the police on me and by the time the police got there they had made friends again and lied both of them to the cops to get me in trouble. The cops told me, if we have to come back you getting arrested...and they left. Now that made my disrespectful son empowered and he started up with his mouth again real quick and was threatening me and all sorts of insults...I decked him again. I am his dad and it was my house and I dont like being disrespected in my own house, especially from  kid. He called the cops again and I didnt want to go to jail so I hit the bricks walking (My starter was out, lol!). I was praying as I walked, Lord please dont let me get arrested! And all of a sudden, I hear a voice inside of me, turn right up here...!! So I did. turn left in the alley, make a right there now go left, now sit here and rest...Het up quickly, go right! 

And I kept following the directions to a tee. So,e times when I crossed an intersection I would see a police car a few blocks down crossing an intersection. They had 3 cars looking for me and I never went more than a 6 block radius or so. Then I hear inside me, ok it's safe to go home now, they stopped the search...! And as I was walking back home, I was praying thank you Lord and please bring the spirit of peace over my house so I dont walk into another fight! And it was unnatural how polite and apologetic both of my sons were when I got home again. 

So, like I said, God didnt part the Red Sea for me, but it sure meant a lot to me! It was real too. So I know all this stuff is real.  God did that for me, so what would make me think that people dont really get taken up to heaven to visit?! I believe it. 

I've been watching some sort of testimony on youboob before and I was skeptical if it was true...and the Lord quickened my spirit to let me know that, that is the truth. That was weird. I knew it was God. I've never felt nothing like that before and it was intense. He has done that to me quite a bit on different videos over time. 

So I just concluded that so I havent been taken up. Others were. Maybe the got aa higher GPA on the assignment than I did? So far! He could take me up in spirit anytime, or not. But I totally believe that it happens to people. 

[farouk]

On 1/20/2025 at 10:15 PM, BornAgain490 said:

Jesus tells us to look at the days of Noah and Lot as an illustration as to what the last days will be like.  Jesus tells us that the ones taken in judgment in Noahs day were those not on the ark. Clearly the ones taken in judgment in Lots day were those that remained in Sodom and Gomorrha.

I know pretribbers like to say Noah was a kind of rapture, the flood being an illustration of a catching away, like the church being caught up, but it's not.  Noah never left the planet to meet the Lord. 

When we look at Israel while in Egypt during the last plague, we see several similarities to the days of Noah and Lot. One: Israel was given a command in order to be protected from the God's judgment. Two: Isreal was not caught up to meet the Lord, but remained in their homes in Egypt. Three: Israel was protected all while God poured out His judgment.  Four: Israel likely also heard the crying and screaming of the Egyptians who watched their first born die. 

Like Israel, Noah was given a command in order to be protected from God's judgment; he wasn't snatched away to meet the Lord, never left the earth; he was in the midst of God pouring out His judgment, and likely heard hundreds to thousands of people banging on the door and walls of the Ark, screaming out in sheer agony before they drowned.    

The same can be said for Lot, who was commanded to leave the city, he wasn't snatched up to meet the Lord, but stayed on earth and was within earshot of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (his wife turned to look back).  And like Israel during the last plague in Egypt, Lot was protected from God's judgment on Sodom and Gomorrha. 

So yes, even though Jesus tells us that those last days will be like Noah and Lot, one can also draw similarities to Israel during the last plague in Egypt. 

@Scott Free @BornAgain490

 

On 1/20/2025 at 10:46 PM, Scott Free said:

Yes, The Ark closed with no time left after that worlds age of grace. When repentance was no longer an option. Do not forget the Beast exterminates the Christians. The retribution of the Last Trumpet is reserved for the sons of perdition alone.

There's plenty of warning in the OT, right?

(And in the NT...)

[farouk]

I would myself be pre-trib., the church is not going to be the object of God's wrath on earth.

[Scott Free]

I love how we must have faith. It is interesting that the Bible says that the Word appeared to the antediluvian people. They must of had holy scripture proclaiming the outlandish propositio0n of a deluge when rain clouds couldn't form during that time. Since they were at glacial maximum, which sucked up the available humidity to the point that all they knew was fog and glacial runoff.  

[Locust]

15 hours ago, farouk said:

I would myself be pre-trib., the church is not going to be the object of God's wrath on earth.

When you say the church what exactly are you trying to Say as there are many churches many different religious organizations

Edited April 5 by Locust

[The Light]

On 1/21/2025 at 7:06 AM, BornAgain490 said:

You think great tribulation is God's wrath, but it's not.  Great (megale: intense or widespread) tribulation (thlipsis: distress, trouble, persecution) is not God's wrath, but widespread intense persecution of the saints. Prove me wrong. 

I agree, the great tribulation is not God's wrath.

But I saw that you said that God's wrath will begin in the 6th seal. It does not. The kings of the earth see that the day of wrath has come but it does not come until the 7th seal is opened.

That said, you are sadly mistaken if you think the Church will not be raptured before the great tribulation. Luke 21 says that we can escape all the things that come to pass and STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN.

Luke 21

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

I'm not sure why you think the Church will be on earth during the time of Jacobs trouble. It's Jacobs trouble and not the Churches.

Do you believe in a rapture and if so, when do you think it will occur?