Unravelling Revelation

[Locust]

29 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

God's "Two Witnesses" Rule The World During The Future Great Tribulation

Many put the future (Man Of Sin) (The Beast) as the ruler of earth during the 3.5 year tribulation "wrong"!

It will be God's (Two Witnesses) that rule in bringing all plagues in torturing the evil world, a literal remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, God's in control!

Revelation 11:3-6 & 10KJV

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

The Future (Two Witnesses) "All Plagues" As Often As They Will Representing "God" 

Revelation 16:1-11KJV

1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

You have a vivid imagination

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, Deborah_ said:

I think we shall just have to disagree.

So sorry, I thought that we might learn from each other.

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, Locust said:

the mistake is thinking it is somebody.

Are the 2 witnesses human? Do they represent 2 individuals, a nation of people, or are they a certain group of people?

 

3 hours ago, Locust said:

there are no names associated with the act of giving a witness.

in the law given to Israel there had to be two agreeing witness  to make it a legal testimony in court .

Deut 19:15“No single witness may convict another for any error or any sin that he may commit. On the testimony of two witnesses or on the testimony of three witnesses the matter should be established.

Yes

 

3 hours ago, Locust said:

Rev 11:3 ''I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth''    would be a legal action.

What are the 2 witnesses, witnessing about?

Who are they witnessing to?

 

3 hours ago, Locust said:

Revelation 11:3 speaks of two witnesses who would prophesy for 1,260 days.

Are the 1260 days that the witnesses wear sackcloth Rev 11:3, the same as the 42 months in Rev 11:2.

How are they related to each other?

 

3 hours ago, Locust said:

The account then says that the wild beast

Who is the beast that kills the 2 witnesses and where in Dan 2 & 7 is the beast shown? Isn't the beast a nation as Daniel shows?

The seals/trumpets and the 2 witnesses are the same timeline. This is shown by the beast that ascends from the abyss at the 5th trumpet kills the 2 witnesses.

 

3 hours ago, Locust said:

would “conquer them and kill them.”

How does the beast from the 5th trumpet kill the 2 witnesses?

The 6th trumpet shows an army of 200 mil from across the Euphrates moving on Jerusalem, what happened to them? 

 

3 hours ago, Locust said:

But after “three and a half days,” these two witnesses would be brought back to life, much to the amazement of all onlookers.—Rev. 11:7, 11.

1260 days is 3 years each year having 360 days.. 

Their bodies lie in the streets of Jerusalem for how long? 3 1/2 days? or 3 1/2 years?

 

[abcdef]

3 hours ago, Locust said:

''these two witnesses would be brought back to life, much to the amazement of all onlookers.''

has already happened 

The 2 witnesses already were called up to heaven from being dead in the streets of Jerusalem? When did that happen?

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

There are difficulties with that. But these beliefs, I admit, are widely held.

From my point of view (and like all men, I could be wrong), the Tribulation is only 3.5 years. Daniel's last "seven" is 7 years, but the first half is the Beast "strengthening THE Covenant ... " with Israel (Daniel's People). There is only one Covenant with the daily oblation in it - the Covenant of Law of Sinai. It is only half way through this that the Beast bans all religion and sets himself up in the Holy of Holies. That is, from 0 to 3.5 years there is genuine worship according to Law in Jerusalem.

The judgment of 3.5 years without rain is that of Elijah. It was a judgment for idolatry. That means there is no need for a Witness with the spirit of Elijah UNTIL the Beast occupies the Holy of Holies - the second half of Daniel's week.

The 144,000 are sealed to survive the Great Tribulation (Rev.9:4). This, as explained above, is the second half of Daniel's last week. That is, they are probably sealed well into the first half when there is no threat. Or, stated otherwise, there is no threat in the first 3.5 years.

The Beast will command universal worship. This cannot go together with "strengthening the Covenant" (lit Heb.) that contains the daily oblation. It must take place in the second half of Daniel's Week.

All pointers are that the crisis of Israel with the Beast is the second half of Daniel's final seven. The first half will be according to Law and ordinances with no need for Witnesses nor judgment.

Well, I think I can safely say that there are more views on the Book of Revelation than Carter had liver pills, and everyone seems to hold their view is correct. I am not criticizing anyone; it is just a fact.

I do believe this generation is beginning to see the prelude of Daniel and Revelation prophecy unfolding as fast as our President is making changes. The mosaic of God’s end-time plan and conditions is beginning to come into focus for those watching.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

All “these things” Jesus mentions are apparent right now. Exciting times!

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

This is what you have not considered:

1. my posting on Hebrews 1:11. You had no answer. The works done on earth, its garment, will be purged.

2. the word "New" means "Renewed" or "Made pristine"

3. the "DAY of the Lord", within the context, is 1,000 years. It your responsibility to research which "day" is meant. Peter is writing to the circumcision (Gal.2). They know the times of God.  A period of Messianic dominion follow by the "Renewed heaven and earth" (Isa.66). You give THE thousand years (6 times) a metaphorical and mystic meaning, but the day IN WHICH is the resurrection and purging of the earth, is suddenly literal.

4. how can it be that in Isaiah 60:9 there is a recovery of Israelites by ships when you say the New Earth is here without a sea. Or is the recovery of Israel found among the prophets metaphorical?

5  the evidence that THE Thousand years is literal is overwhelming. There is no reason to make it not mean what it says. The metaphorical application means God purposely mislead us. Why mention a metaphorical thousand years as the time of Satan's imprisonment when he is not imprisoned?

6. It is no good bringing verse after verse of God's judgment by fire. Korah was judged by fire but it did nothing to the earth. I suggest you only bring verses that plainly say that the earth is annihilated by fire. Remember to include those that have the fate of believers if heaven is annihilated. And remember to explain why scripture says that the earth shall be "changed". You have it ceasing to exist.

7. that if you want to discount brother Scofield's argument because of his sins, you will have to discount Peter for denying the Lord and being untrue to the gospel, and you will have to discount Paul for the murder of Christians AND for refusing the Holy Spirit's instruction, via the Church, not to go down to Jerusalem. Scofield might be wrong, but to claim truth only for the sinless is vain.

Notwithstanding our differences, I have enjoyed our exchange, and hope that some others profited. Go well

Jesus Christ will return in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire (The End) 

[Locust]

10 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Are the 2 witnesses human? Do they represent 2 individuals, a nation of people, or are they a certain group of people?

here again there is a wanting need to think its just two people . the book revelation is  written in the form of signs. any thing that can be alluded to is done symbolically . Rev 1:1 says as much. 

[Locust]

29 minutes ago, abcdef said:

The 2 witnesses already were called up to heaven from being dead in the streets of Jerusalem? When did that happen?

no they are alive and well

[Locust]

4 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Jesus Christ will return in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire (The End) 

nope 

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Locust said:

nope 

"Yep"

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Peter 3:10-11KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Edited February 28 by truth7t7