Christ's kingdom will never be physically on this earth

[DeighAnn]

15 hours ago, abcdef said:

Men and women who are not freed from sin by the gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38.

But Satan is bound during that day, when the Lord sits upon the throne of David...

15 hours ago, abcdef said:

The winepress that Jesus treads is the unbelieving Jews as long as they are outside the city of Jerusalem, Rev 14:20. They are outside of Jerusalem until the times of the gentiles is over.

Do I understand you correctly in that you believe that GOD (in part) BLINDED the Jews and the outcome of that is to PAY for that blindness in the winepress, even though it was FOR the Gentiles?   You don't think it might be for those who have come against GOD and Israel?

Is that what you get from 

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God,
yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

because if so, then ALL OF US would be in that winepress.  


The way I understand it 

Israel followed the Laws of God when the Gentiles were basically 'blinded' to them.

Now the Christians follow in faith while the Jews are basically 'blind' to Christ Jesus.

THIS WAY, God can include all in disobedience, so that ALL can receive mercy.  

That is why Christians are NOT to boast.  The blindness 'in part' only serves to BENEFIT us.  



I also consider another possible NEED for the Jews to 'keep the Law' (blindness so not come to faith) because of

Matt 5
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


If they didn't 'keep the law' where would it have gone?

 

Greek order of Matt 5
17  Not think that I have come to abolish the law or the Prophets, not I have come to abolish but to fulfill.  

18  for I say to you, until shall pass away the heaven and the earth, iota one or one stroke of a letter, no not shall pass away from the law, until everything should happen

19  Whoever if then shall break one of the commandments of these the least and shall teach so the others, least he will be called in the kingdom of the heavens; whoever now shall keep and shall teach [them] this [one] great will be called in the kingdom of the heavens.  

20  I say for to you that if not shall abound your righteousness above [that] of the scribes and Pharisees, no not shall you enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

21  You have heard that it was said to the ancients, Not you shall murder; whoever now shall murder, liable will be to the judgment

22  I however say to you everyone being angry with the brother of him liable will be to the judgment; whoever now shall say to brother of him,  Raca, liable will be to the Sanhedrin; whoever now shall say Fool, liable will be to the hell of fire.
 

Pretty much shows our different beliefs and I see no need to get into every detail past this as they all stem from our different foundation.  Let's just agree to keep studying and keeping the faith...

 

 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Locust said:

is he ruling right now ?.there is a separating action going on. its like separating lake city brass  from Remington brass found at the shooting range . there are people's traits that Jesus likes and traits he does not like it's his choice . if you's is thinking that Jesus can be forced to take everyone just because they,BTY, know about someone named Jesus is not getting them favor .  

He has not returned, He is still at the right hand, He is still a Prince.... and FAITH comes by hearing the words of God...not by hearing a couple words or reading a couple parts...

And yes, there is a separating action, a setting aside taking place between 'thy seed and Her seed'...

Christ Jesus does the WILL OF GOD, perfectly.  

I do not believe 'everyone' will make it, nor do I think GOD can be forced by anyone or thing HE has created to do anything...


 

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
Isaiah 9:6, KJV

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."
Daniel 9:25, KJV

"And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses."
Acts 3:15, KJV

"‭The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."
Acts 5:30-31, KJV

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"
Revelation 1:5, KJV

Not until the 2nd Advent, when the heavens open will He return as...


11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Locust said:

should it read congregations ? to say churches does not show unity

ekklésia  -   Church, assembly, congregation

called out from the world to the Eternal Kingdom


The letters are written to the churches, but NOT all who claim to be a part of the 'church(es) will make it...all the letters end in the same way

The [one] having an ear, let him hear...all singular

what the Spirit says to the churches...plural

Every man will stand in his own judgment, no one is getting to heaven just for being a part of 'a group' and that means down to the last man standing.  

When Christ returns to take out Satan with His Brightness (have him bound and sealed in the abyss) EVERYONE upon the earth will EITHER have taken the mark of the beast or they will not have.  THAT is the only time A GROUP will be 'saved' again, their 'salvation' easy to discern....as those days shortened for the elects sake.






  
 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

1. God/Jesus rules the universe, has set thing in motion, and holds it together.

2. God rules over the unbelievers and believers.

3. God rules unbelievers, but they are rebellious in heart, mind, deeds and reject God's love.

4. God rules over those in the Pentecost gospel kingdom, but they are submissive to God/Jesus and his ways of love.

5. Jesus/God rules the world, but there will always be those who rebel and disobey the laws of love, so they do not allow love to rule their lives.

6. In this sense, by willful submission, Jesus/God rules the lives of those only in the kingdom by the Holy Spirit of love, the gospel millennium kingdom. The rest of humanity is not under the rule of love but is under the rule of sin.

So when it talks about Jesus ruling, it is only those in the kingdom and not the entire gentile material planet.

When HE RETURNS at the 2nd Advent it will be over ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD, the entire planet, for the Lords Day.  

I agree like everyone else that GOD is in control of everything but that is not in dispute.  What is in dispute is what is written as being Truth vs what MEN conclude from those words as being truth.   

Example -

I believe when Christ LITERALLY returns, HE WILL BE SEEN by every eye, which encompasses every eye of every soul that has ever been created and is either in heaven or on earth or under the earth.  IAnd that means EVERYONE... whether they claim to believe or not. 

I believe under the earth means those in HELL and covers those who will be raised up at that time along with those who have to wait until the end of the GWTJ.  Literally, just as real as I sit, breathe and type at this very moment. 

I find that belief here  

Rev 1:7  Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and will see Him every eye, and those who Him pierced, and will wail because of Him all the tribes of the earth.  Yes! Amen!


When I read '7 headed beast' with 10 horns and crowns' I KNOW that is not a 'literal' beast and a figure of speech is being used to help me gain more understanding towards the kind of 'kingdom' coming to the earth made up of multiple people, with multiple powers yet all under the power of ONE soul.  


I can't find what you claim in the Bible so to me it is nothing more than conclusions based upon the wisdom of men that doesn't fit in with the words written.  

[Desopixi Seilynam]

15 hours ago, Luther said:

I would never dismiss or avoid any scripture that would lead me to a better understanding of the truth.

Dear one, have you seen this:

"...Come from the four winds Oh breath of life
  [ Matthew 24:31 "from the four winds" ]
and breath upon these slain that they may live.
And they stood upon their feet
an exceedingly great army" Ezekiel 37:9-10,  [ Rev. 19:14, Joel 2:11, Rev. 19:21 ]
Ezekiel 37:12 "Oh my people, I will open up your graves and bring you up
out of your graves and into the land of Israel"

[ Note also Acts 23:5-8 and 26:5-8 Paul can only be referring to
Ezekiel 37:12 as "the promise made of God unto the fathers"
concerning resurrection. Paul, a Pharisee, believed that such
passages were about actual resurrection.
That was the whole dispute between Pharisee and Sadducee,
whether or not such passages were about actual resurrection.
The Messiah came and demonstrated that actual resurrection will happen,
by raising Lazarus from the dead and Himself also rising from the dead. ]

therefore:

Ezekiel 37:1-15 === Resurrections
Ezekiel 37:15- 28 === Reign of the Messiah
Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 === Gog and Magog

The same events, in the same order, as given also in Revelation 20.
They are telling the same prophecy.

Revelation 20:4-5 === Resurrections
Revelation 20:5-7 === Reign of the Messiah
Revelation 20:7-10 === Gog and Magog

 

The 1000 year reign is in the old testament.
Ezekiel chapters 40 to the end describe details of the 1000 years.

For 1000 years, the saints together with the Messiah will keep the law to perfection.

"And it will be the prince's part to give burnt offerings,
and (all offerings) He shall prepare the sin offering,
and the meal offering, and the burnt offering,
and the peace offerings,
to make atonement for the house of Israel."
Ezekiel 45:17  The Messiah will prepare and offer all sacrifices.

Ezekiel describes a 18,000 space with a 6x6 temple in the middle. 41:1-5, 48:35
In Revelation it is 12,000 with no temple. 21:16, 21:22

The city described in Ezekiel 41 is clearly different
than the one in Revelation 21.
Ezekiel is describing the city and temple of the 1000 years.

 

 

[Locust]

17 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

ekklésia  -   Church, assembly, congregation

i'm thinking ''church'' did not become a thing until Constantine which puts it well after its original writing

[Anne2]

2 hours ago, Locust said:

i'm thinking ''church'' did not become a thing until Constantine which puts it well after its original writing

Church was a thing in the old covenant. Distinct from synagogue.....

Ac 7:38  This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
 

Edited April 10 by Anne2

[timf]

ekklésia  -   Church, assembly, congregation

The Greek word was used for the group of citizens in a city (polis) who were called out to discuss and vote on a particular issue

A "called out group" can apply to the nation of Israel, such as in the Old Testament as well as a group of believers of any point in history.

"Church" is one of several English words that comes "pre loaded" with a definition or understanding that can distort what the original word meant.

[Anne2]

On 4/9/2025 at 12:48 PM, DeighAnn said:

I also consider another possible NEED for the Jews to 'keep the Law' (blindness so not come to faith) because of

They don't though. They can't. But Paul wanted to make them jealous of his ministry to the gentiles, and I believe synagogue liturgy is his success. When the temple was destroyed the rabbis quoted this as a comfort to the people.

Ho 14:2  Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Heb 13:15  By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. 

Edited April 10 by Anne2

[Anne2]

4 hours ago, timf said:

ekklésia  -   Church, assembly, congregation

The Greek word was used for the group of citizens in a city (polis) who were called out to discuss and vote on a particular issue

A "called out group" can apply to the nation of Israel, such as in the Old Testament as well as a group of believers of any point in history.

"Church" is one of several English words that comes "pre loaded" with a definition or understanding that can distort what the original word meant.

I don't think it is much different than what you say. It is called to particular issues, concerning  the involvement leadership activity, or religious purposes or governmental purposes.

Synagogue seems to be used with an assembly for any thing, not to do with official activity.

As is here

De 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
De 23:2  A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
De 23:3  An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever:
De 23:8  The children that are begotten of them shall enter into the congregation of the LORD in their third generation.
An interesting one here

Le 8:4  And Moses did as the LORD commanded him; and the assembly (synagogue) was gathered together (ekklesia) unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation (synagogue) .
 

Edited April 10 by Anne2