Christ's kingdom will never be physically on this earth

[DeighAnn]

10 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

They don't though. They can't. But Paul wanted to make them jealous of his ministry to the gentiles, and I believe synagogue liturgy is his success. When the temple was destroyed the rabbis quoted this as a comfort to the people.

Ho 14:2  Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Heb 13:15  By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. 

I'm sure they aren't any doing any worse than Christians are.   Do you know of any churches today that teach what the two churches Christ approved of taught?  

Anyway, what temple destruction and where do I find where 'the rabbis quoted this'...?  






 

[Anne2]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I'm sure they aren't any doing any worse than Christians are.   Do you know of any churches today that teach what the two churches Christ approved of taught?  

Anyway, what temple destruction and where do I find where 'the rabbis quoted this'...?  






 

"Yohanan ben Zakkai^[a] (Hebrew: יוֹחָנָן בֶּן זַכַּאי, romanized: Yōḥānān ben Zakkaʾy; 1st century CE), sometimes abbreviated as ריב״ז‎ ribaz for Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai, was a tanna, an important Jewish sage during the late Second Temple period during the transformative post-destruction era. He was a primary contributor to the core text of Rabbinic Judaism, the Mishnah. His name is often preceded by the honorific title Rabban. He is widely regarded as one of the most important Jewish figures of his time, and his escape from the Roman destruction of Jerusalem (which allowed him to continue teaching) may have been instrumental in Rabbinic Judaism's survival post-Temple. His tomb is located in Tiberias within the Maimonides burial compound.

 

Escape from Jerusalem (Gittin 56a)

[edit]

During the siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE in the First Jewish–Roman War, he argued in favour of peace: according to the Talmud (Gittin 56a), when he found the anger of the besieged populace to be intolerable, he arranged a secret escape from the city inside a coffin, helped by his nephew and Zealot leader Ben Batiach, so that he could negotiate with Vespasian (who, at this time, was still just a military commander).^[6][8] Ben Zakkai correctly predicted that Vespasian would become Emperor and that the Temple would soon be destroyed. In return, Vespasian granted Yochanan three wishes: the salvation of Yavne and its sages and the descendants of Rabban Gamliel, who was of the Davidic line, and a physician to treat Rabbi Zadok, who had fasted for 40 years to stave off the destruction of Jerusalem.^[9]

Yavne and afterwards

[edit]

Upon the destruction of Jerusalem, Yochanan converted his school at Yavne into the Jewish religious centre, insisting that certain privileges given by Jewish law uniquely to Jerusalem should be transferred to Yavne.^[10] His school functioned as a re-establishment of the Sanhedrin so that Judaism could decide how to deal with the loss of the sacrificial altars of the temple in Jerusalem and other pertinent questions. Referring to a passage in the Book of Hosea ("I desired mercy, and not sacrifice"),^[11] he helped persuade the Sanhedrin to—as the temple had been destroyed—replace animal sacrifice with prayer,^[12] a practice that remains the basis of Jewish worship. Eventually, Rabbinic Judaism emerged from the council's conclusions."

Here is another. It comes right out and says the Rabbinate replaced the jewish priesthood

"After the destruction of Jerusalem and its sacred temple, Yochanan converted his school into the Jewish religious center, successfully insisting that privileges given by Jewish law to Jerusalem should be transferred to Jamnia (Rosh haShanah 4:1-3). His academy also came to act as a place of Jerusalem's Jewish legislative council, the Sanhedrin. He soon convened the lengthy Council of Jamnia, traditionally dated as lasting from 70 to 90 C.E., to decide how to deal with the loss of the crucial sacrificial altars of the Temple of Jerusalem, and other pressing questions.

This discussion resulted in the replacement of the Jewish priesthood by the rabbinate as the primary Jewish religious authority. Referring to a famous passage in the Book of Hosea, I desire mercy, and not sacrifice (Hosea 6:6), Yochanan helped persuade the council to replace animal sacrifice with prayer (Rabbi Nathan, Abot 4), a practice that continues until today."

 

 

Edited April 11 by Anne2

[Luther]

15 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Dear one, have you seen this:

"...Come from the four winds Oh breath of life
  [ Matthew 24:31 "from the four winds" ]
and breath upon these slain that they may live.
And they stood upon their feet
an exceedingly great army" Ezekiel 37:9-10,  [ Rev. 19:14, Joel 2:11, Rev. 19:21 ]
Ezekiel 37:12 "Oh my people, I will open up your graves and bring you up
out of your graves and into the land of Israel"

[ Note also Acts 23:5-8 and 26:5-8 Paul can only be referring to
Ezekiel 37:12 as "the promise made of God unto the fathers"
concerning resurrection. Paul, a Pharisee, believed that such
passages were about actual resurrection.
That was the whole dispute between Pharisee and Sadducee,
whether or not such passages were about actual resurrection.
The Messiah came and demonstrated that actual resurrection will happen,
by raising Lazarus from the dead and Himself also rising from the dead. ]

therefore:

Ezekiel 37:1-15 === Resurrections
Ezekiel 37:15- 28 === Reign of the Messiah
Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 === Gog and Magog

The same events, in the same order, as given also in Revelation 20.
They are telling the same prophecy.

Revelation 20:4-5 === Resurrections
Revelation 20:5-7 === Reign of the Messiah
Revelation 20:7-10 === Gog and Magog

 

The 1000 year reign is in the old testament.
Ezekiel chapters 40 to the end describe details of the 1000 years.

For 1000 years, the saints together with the Messiah will keep the law to perfection.

"And it will be the prince's part to give burnt offerings,
and (all offerings) He shall prepare the sin offering,
and the meal offering, and the burnt offering,
and the peace offerings,
to make atonement for the house of Israel."
Ezekiel 45:17  The Messiah will prepare and offer all sacrifices.

Ezekiel describes a 18,000 space with a 6x6 temple in the middle. 41:1-5, 48:35
In Revelation it is 12,000 with no temple. 21:16, 21:22

The city described in Ezekiel 41 is clearly different
than the one in Revelation 21.
Ezekiel is describing the city and temple of the 1000 years.

 

 

Ezekiel 37:12,22, 24-27 KJV

Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

( The land of Israel is heaven)

[22] And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

( There is only one King, the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in the new Covenant now). 

[24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

[25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

(" David my servant" is symbolic language for the Lord Jesus Christ. We are no longer in the Old covenant. NOTICE: " for ever", not a thousand years. )

[26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

( This everlasting covenant, the only covenant that God is concerned with, is the New Covenant.)

[27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

( This is new Jerusalem where all of Christ's chosen are with Him):

Revelation 21:3 KJV

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

This is the undeniable connection that allows us to understand the context of Ezekiel 37. It's all about Israelites receiving the shadows of things to come regarding salvation. Israelites who receive the Lord Jesus Christ become Christians. 

[Luther]

15 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Dear one, have you seen this:

"...Come from the four winds Oh breath of life
  [ Matthew 24:31 "from the four winds" ]
and breath upon these slain that they may live.
And they stood upon their feet
an exceedingly great army" Ezekiel 37:9-10,  [ Rev. 19:14, Joel 2:11, Rev. 19:21 ]
Ezekiel 37:12 "Oh my people, I will open up your graves and bring you up
out of your graves and into the land of Israel"

[ Note also Acts 23:5-8 and 26:5-8 Paul can only be referring to
Ezekiel 37:12 as "the promise made of God unto the fathers"
concerning resurrection. Paul, a Pharisee, believed that such
passages were about actual resurrection.
That was the whole dispute between Pharisee and Sadducee,
whether or not such passages were about actual resurrection.
The Messiah came and demonstrated that actual resurrection will happen,
by raising Lazarus from the dead and Himself also rising from the dead. ]

therefore:

Ezekiel 37:1-15 === Resurrections
Ezekiel 37:15- 28 === Reign of the Messiah
Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 === Gog and Magog

The same events, in the same order, as given also in Revelation 20.
They are telling the same prophecy.

Revelation 20:4-5 === Resurrections
Revelation 20:5-7 === Reign of the Messiah
Revelation 20:7-10 === Gog and Magog

 

The 1000 year reign is in the old testament.
Ezekiel chapters 40 to the end describe details of the 1000 years.

For 1000 years, the saints together with the Messiah will keep the law to perfection.

"And it will be the prince's part to give burnt offerings,
and (all offerings) He shall prepare the sin offering,
and the meal offering, and the burnt offering,
and the peace offerings,
to make atonement for the house of Israel."
Ezekiel 45:17  The Messiah will prepare and offer all sacrifices.

Ezekiel describes a 18,000 space with a 6x6 temple in the middle. 41:1-5, 48:35
In Revelation it is 12,000 with no temple. 21:16, 21:22

The city described in Ezekiel 41 is clearly different
than the one in Revelation 21.
Ezekiel is describing the city and temple of the 1000 years.

 

 

You said: " The 1000 year reign is in the old testament.

Ezekiel chapters 40 to the end describe details of the 1000 years."

But there is no place in the OT where the language of a time period of a thousand years is used. You are assuming that all of this is going to take place here on this unchanged earth, when in fact Ezekiel 37 is all about the new heavens and earth. 

Genesis 17:8 KJV

And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 37:12 "Oh my people, I will open up your graves and bring you up
out of your graves and into the land of Israel"

Same place ..

The new heavens and earth at the end of this world. 

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

7 hours ago, Luther said:

And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

So your saying that is figurative?

They will not actually be one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel?

Israel is heaven? What scripture leads you to that conclusion?

Why then in Revelation 21:2 does it say that the city of heaven comes down?
Where does it come down to?

7 hours ago, Luther said:

But there is no place in the OT where the language of a time period of a thousand years is used. You are assuming that all of this is going to take place here on this unchanged earth, when in fact Ezekiel 37 is all about the new heavens and earth. 

Ezekiel chapters 41 and going on describe a city with specific measurements.
The city in Ezekiel is a space of 18,000 with a 6x6 temple in the middle,
Ezekiel 41:1-5, Ezekiel 48:35.

The city in Revelation 21 is a 12,000 space with no temple: Revelation 21:16, 21:22

Clear measurements are given such that we know the cities are not the same.
Also one place has a temple, the other does not, very clearly two different places.
Clearly Ezekiel and Revelation describe two different cities.
Two different places, two different times.

Ezekiel 45 also describes sacrifices, death.
In the ultimate end, there will be no more death at all,
the lion will eat straw. [ Isaiah 11:7 ]
That is another way we can see Ezekiel is not describing
the ultimate end, and the outline of Ezekiel matches
the same outline of the 1000 years given in Revelation.

Ezekiel 37:1-15 resurrections
Ezekiel 37:15-28 reign
Ezekiel 38 and 39 Gog and Magog
Revelation 20:4-5 resurrections
Revelation 20:5-7 reign
Revelation 20:7-10 Gog and Magog

Clearly the texts give that same exact outline,
you are saying the reign spoken of in Ezekiel is the ultimate reign,
after chapter 20 of Revelation, but the texts speak clearly for themselves.
 

Yes the Lord will reign forever, after 1000 years Satan is allowed to get Gog and Magog to try to attack, but the Father sends a fire down that destroys them
and this current sky sea and land.
(Revelation 20:9, Ezekiel 39:6, 2 Peter 3:8-12, Revelation 21:1)
At that time the city of heaven comes down and the reign continues
forever from it.

[truth7t7]

13 hours ago, Luther said:

You said: " The 1000 year reign is in the old testament.

Ezekiel chapters 40 to the end describe details of the 1000 years."

Your Claim Is "False"

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth?

As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

The temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived

Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV

10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.

11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

 

19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.

20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.

21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.

Edited April 11 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

13 hours ago, Luther said:

You said: " The 1000 year reign is in the old testament.

Ezekiel chapters 40 to the end describe details of the 1000 year."

Your Claim Is "False"

Ezekiel Below Is (The Eternal Kingdom) Same River And Tree Of life, Same Fruit On The Tree, Same Leaves Of The Tree For Healing/Medicine, Same Gates Of New Jerusalem With The Names Of The 12 Tribes Of Israel

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Ezekiel 47:12KJV

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Revelation 22:1-2KJV

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Eternal "New Jerusalem"

Ezekiel 48:31KJV

31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

Revelation 21:12KJV

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Edited April 11 by truth7t7

[Luther]

16 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

So your saying that is figurative?

They will not actually be one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel?

Israel is heaven? What scripture leads you to that conclusion?

Why then in Revelation 21:2 does it say that the city of heaven comes down?
Where does it come down to?

Ezekiel chapters 41 and going on describe a city with specific measurements.
The city in Ezekiel is a space of 18,000 with a 6x6 temple in the middle,
Ezekiel 41:1-5, Ezekiel 48:35.

The city in Revelation 21 is a 12,000 space with no temple: Revelation 21:16, 21:22

Clear measurements are given such that we know the cities are not the same.
Also one place has a temple, the other does not, very clearly two different places.
Clearly Ezekiel and Revelation describe two different cities.
Two different places, two different times.

Ezekiel 45 also describes sacrifices, death.
In the ultimate end, there will be no more death at all,
the lion will eat straw. [ Isaiah 11:7 ]
That is another way we can see Ezekiel is not describing
the ultimate end, and the outline of Ezekiel matches
the same outline of the 1000 years given in Revelation.

Ezekiel 37:1-15 resurrections
Ezekiel 37:15-28 reign
Ezekiel 38 and 39 Gog and Magog
Revelation 20:4-5 resurrections
Revelation 20:5-7 reign
Revelation 20:7-10 Gog and Magog

Clearly the texts give that same exact outline,
you are saying the reign spoken of in Ezekiel is the ultimate reign,
after chapter 20 of Revelation, but the texts speak clearly for themselves.
 

Yes the Lord will reign forever, after 1000 years Satan is allowed to get Gog and Magog to try to attack, but the Father sends a fire down that destroys them
and this current sky sea and land.
(Revelation 20:9, Ezekiel 39:6, 2 Peter 3:8-12, Revelation 21:1)
At that time the city of heaven comes down and the reign continues
forever from it.

After reading your reply, which I see is well thought out, and with no disrespect to you, our method of interpretation is different. Obviously. But the point I'm making is that there is no concrete evidence of the duration of this literal   "millennial kingdom". If you read " for ever", it means " for ever ". 

[Luther]

11 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Your Claim Is "False"

Ezekiel Below Is (The Eternal Kingdom) Same River And Tree Of life, Same Fruit On The Tree, Same Leaves Of The Tree For Healing/Medicine, Same Gates Of New Jerusalem With The Names Of The 12 Tribes Of Israel

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Ezekiel 47:12KJV

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Revelation 22:1-2KJV

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Eternal "New Jerusalem"

Ezekiel 48:31KJV

31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

Revelation 21:12KJV

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

I'm sorry I didn't say that. 

[truth7t7]

On 4/11/2025 at 7:33 PM, Luther said:

But the point I'm making is that there is no concrete evidence of the duration of this literal   "millennial kingdom". If you read " for ever", it means " for ever ". 

Forever is the "Eternal Kingdom", stop using the term "Millennial Kingdom" causing confusion