Christ's kingdom will never be physically on this earth

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Yes there is, Revelation 20:4-7 specifically says so, multiple times.

The city in Ezekiel 40 to the end is different than the city in Revelation 21 and 22.
In Ezekiel it is 18,000 with a temple in the middle.
In Revelation it is 12,000 with no temple.
Clearly two different places, not allegory clearly they describe two different places.
Ezekiel is not describing the ultimate city, as described in Revelation,
we are given specific measurements.

 

The anti-Christ will make fire come down from the sky:
Revelation 13:13.

The real Messiah will spew fire and brimstone from His mouth literally:
Revelation 19:21.

The Father destroys everything including the sky from the fire of Revelation 20:9.

Ignoring these distinctions plays into the hands of the anti-Christ.

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth, Is This True?
As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

The temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived

Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

If that is your basis, then the problem HERE is the House of Israel didn't go into the Babylonian captivity at all.  

Many, Many years before the House of Judah was taken into the Babylonian captivity, the house of Israel went into the Assyrian captivity and THEN they were scattered and sifted amongst all the nations of the world and went on to become many nations... never going back to their lands.  

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

"False" Jesus sits at the right hand of the father, your suggestion he's in a human body localized to a physical location is a fairy tale, your scenario is perfectly aligned with the seating of the future Antichrist in Jerusalem

Shalom, @truth7t7.

How can He "sit" anywhere without being a body?! Furthermore, He doesn't "have" a body; He IS a body!

And, if you think that God the Father is sitting in some fairy tale place called "Heaven," you're believing the REAL "fairy tale!"

Speaking about the newly-built Temple, Solomon was quite clear:

1 Kings 8:27 (KJV)

27 "But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?"

Luke 24:36-53 (KJV)

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them,

"Peace [be] unto you." (Hebrew: שָׁלוֹם לָכֶם = "Shalom laakhem" = "Peace to-you.")

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit (a ghost)! 38 And he said unto them,

"Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle (touch and feel) me, and see; for a spirit hath not FLESH AND BONES, AS YE SEE ME HAVE."

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,

"Have ye here any meat (food)?"

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And HE TOOK [IT], AND DID EAT BEFORE THEM. 44 And he said unto them,

"These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me."

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them,

"Thus it is written, and thus it behoved (it was necessary for) Christ (the Messiah) to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high."

50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven (Greek: εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν = "eis ton ouranon" = "into the sky"). 52 And they worshipped (Greek: προσκυνήσαντες = "proskuneesantes" = "by kneeling or prostration they did homage [to one] or made obeisance, in order to express respect to") him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Acts 1:1-11 (KJV)

1 The former treatise (the Gospel of Luke) have I made, O Theophilus ("God-Lover"), of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty (40) days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, "which," [saith he], "ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying,

"Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

7 And he said unto them,

"It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

He didn't tell them that He would NOT be restoring again the Kingdom to Israel; He said it wasn't any of their business when the Father would send Him to restore the Kingdom! That information belonged to God the Father ALONE!

When I used to live in Lake Mary, Florida, north of Orlando, I was close enough to the east coast to watch the space shuttles launched at Cape Canaveral. We would watch the rockets go up and grow smaller and smaller until we could barely see the speck that was leaving the massive cloud-trail behind it. Sometimes, a cloud would pass by and we'd temporarily lose it until the cloud passed and we could look for it again.

Yeeshuwa` wasn't leaving a cloud-trail, like the shuttles did, but the same thing was happening here in the First Century after His Resurrection. He went up, and they watched Him go until they lost Him in the passing cloud, and kept looking for Him after the cloud passed. They were still looking for Him when they heard two men beside them:

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (Greek: εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν = "eis ton ouranon" = "into the sky") as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said,

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (Greek: εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν = 'eis ton ouranon' = 'into the sky')? THIS SAME JESUS, WHICH IS TAKEN UP FROM YOU INTO HEAVEN (Greek: εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν = 'eis ton ouranon' = 'into the sky'), SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER AS YE HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN (Greek: εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν = 'eis ton ouranon' = 'into the sky')."

10 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Matthew 22:44KJV

44 The LORD said.

unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Yes, and this quote from Psalm 110:1 must be followed up with 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24
(2) Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till "he hath put all enemies under his feet." 26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. 27 For "he hath put all things under his feet" (). {But when he saith "all things are put under [him," it is] manifest that "he" is excepted, which did "put all things under him."}

(In other words, GOD the Father is the exception to the "all things" put under the Messiah's feet.)

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

So, Yeeshuwa` sits in the New Jerusalem above the skies UNTIL His Father gives Him the go-ahead to return, because He has put all things under His feet. And, when He gets here, He subdues all those enemies who were put under His feet, until He has conquered every enemy. THIS TAKES TIME TO ACCOMPLISH! But, when He's done, He shall turn the Empire over to His Father, so that God the Father may be "all in all."

10 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Matthew 26:64KJV

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Jesus warned his followers against your teaching, Jesus won't be found anywhere upon this earth

Matthew 24:23-27KJV

23 Then if any man shall say unto YOU, Lo, here is Christ, or there; [YOU UNDERSTOOD] believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told YOU before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto YOU, Behold, he is in the desert; [YOU UNDERSTOOD] go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; [YOU UNDERSTOOD] believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

First, understand this: The Olivet Discourse is found in all three of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) in Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. It can be done, and I took the time to HARMONIZE the Greek versions of all three accounts of His Olivet Discourse, BEFORE translating them into English. What one will learn from this task is that the second-person plural pronoun in Greek, which is "humeis, humoon, humin, and humas," and the second-person plural endings in the Greek future tense (ending in "-te" [tau-epsilon] or "-the" [theta-epsilon]), were spoken DIRECTLY TO those men sitting before Him on the Mount of Olives. When the pronouns change or a different word is used, the Messiah was peering off into the distant future, instead of the near future His own Apostles would face. In the King James Version, the second-person singular words were "thou, thee, thy, and thine." The second-person PLURAL words were "ye, you, your, and yours."

So, one need only look in the KJV for the words "ye," "you," "your, " and "yours" to find the parts of the Olivet Discourse that would be SOON fulfilled that His own Apostles would face (i.e., in the First Century A.D.), and the rest would be about the more distant future, such as in His Second Coming.

So, Matthew 24:23-27 are a case of Yeeshuwa` speaking DIRECTLY TO HIS APOSTLES and His prophecy was fulfilled in the First Century A.D.! Only verses 24 and 27 themselves are peering off into the more distant future. And, they DID have to contend with several who made the claim of being the Messiah, even until Simon Bar Kokhba led his revolt in 132-136 A.D., and the Romans had had enough. Simon also claimed to be YHWH'S Anointed One, God's "Messiah" or God's "Christ."

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

If that is your basis, then the problem HERE is the House of Israel didn't go into the Babylonian captivity at all.  

Many, Many years before the House of Judah was taken into the Babylonian captivity, the house of Israel went into the Assyrian captivity and THEN they were scattered and sifted amongst all the nations of the world and went on to become many nations... never going back to their lands.  

Oh sure, Zerubbabel didn't return and build the 2nd temple, where God gave instruction for animal sacrifice for sin as seen in Ezekiel Chapter 43, your not going to change the subject in diversion from the topic Ezekiel Chapter 43 is the 2nd Zerubabbel temple built in 536BC prior to the Cross of Calvary

Edited April 30 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @truth7t7.

How can He "sit" anywhere without being a body?! Furthermore, He doesn't "have" a body; He IS a body!

And, if you think that God the Father is sitting in some fairy tale place called "Heaven," you're believing the REAL "fairy tale!"

Speaking about the newly-built Temple, Solomon was quite clear:

1 Kings 8:27 (KJV)

27 "But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?"

Luke 24:36-53 (KJV)

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them,

"Peace [be] unto you." (Hebrew: שָׁלוֹם לָכֶם = "Shalom laakhem" = "Peace to-you.")

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit (a ghost)! 38 And he said unto them,

"Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle (touch and feel) me, and see; for a spirit hath not FLESH AND BONES, AS YE SEE ME HAVE."

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them [his] hands and [his] feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,

"Have ye here any meat (food)?"

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And HE TOOK [IT], AND DID EAT BEFORE THEM. 44 And he said unto them,

"These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me."

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them,

"Thus it is written, and thus it behoved (it was necessary for) Christ (the Messiah) to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high."

50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven (Greek: εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν = "eis ton ouranon" = "into the sky"). 52 And they worshipped (Greek: προσκυνήσαντες = "proskuneesantes" = "by kneeling or prostration they did homage [to one] or made obeisance, in order to express respect to") him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Acts 1:1-11 (KJV)

1 The former treatise (the Gospel of Luke) have I made, O Theophilus ("God-Lover"), of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty (40) days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, "which," [saith he], "ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying,

"Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

7 And he said unto them,

"It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

He didn't tell them that He would NOT be restoring again the Kingdom to Israel; He said it wasn't any of their business when the Father would send Him to restore the Kingdom! That information belonged to God the Father ALONE!

When I used to live in Lake Mary, Florida, north of Orlando, I was close enough to the east coast to watch the space shuttles launched at Cape Canaveral. We would watch the rockets go up and grow smaller and smaller until we could barely see the speck that was leaving the massive cloud-trail behind it. Sometimes, a cloud would pass by and we'd temporarily lose it until the cloud passed and we could look for it again.

Yeeshuwa` wasn't leaving a cloud-trail, like the shuttles did, but the same thing was happening here in the First Century after His Resurrection. He went up, and they watched Him go until they lost Him in the passing cloud, and kept looking for Him after the cloud passed. They were still looking for Him when they heard two men beside them:

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (Greek: εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν = "eis ton ouranon" = "into the sky") as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said,

"Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (Greek: εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν = 'eis ton ouranon' = 'into the sky')? THIS SAME JESUS, WHICH IS TAKEN UP FROM YOU INTO HEAVEN (Greek: εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν = 'eis ton ouranon' = 'into the sky'), SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER AS YE HAVE SEEN HIM GO INTO HEAVEN (Greek: εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν = 'eis ton ouranon' = 'into the sky')."

Yes, and this quote from Psalm 110:1 must be followed up with 1 Corinthians 15:20-28:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24
(2) Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till "he hath put all enemies under his feet." 26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. 27 For "he hath put all things under his feet" (). {But when he saith "all things are put under [him," it is] manifest that "he" is excepted, which did "put all things under him."}

(In other words, GOD the Father is the exception to the "all things" put under the Messiah's feet.)

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

So, Yeeshuwa` sits in the New Jerusalem above the skies UNTIL His Father gives Him the go-ahead to return, because He has put all things under His feet. And, when He gets here, He subdues all those enemies who were put under His feet, until He has conquered every enemy. THIS TAKES TIME TO ACCOMPLISH! But, when He's done, He shall turn the Empire over to His Father, so that God the Father may be "all in all."

First, understand this: The Olivet Discourse is found in all three of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) in Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. It can be done, and I took the time to HARMONIZE the Greek versions of all three accounts of His Olivet Discourse, BEFORE translating them into English. What one will learn from this task is that the second-person plural pronoun in Greek, which is "humeis, humoon, humin, and humas," and the second-person plural endings in the Greek future tense (ending in "-te" [tau-epsilon] or "-the" [theta-epsilon]), were spoken DIRECTLY TO those men sitting before Him on the Mount of Olives. When the pronouns change or a different word is used, the Messiah was peering off into the distant future, instead of the near future His own Apostles would face. In the King James Version, the second-person singular words were "thou, thee, thy, and thine." The second-person PLURAL words were "ye, you, your, and yours."

So, one need only look in the KJV for the words "ye," "you," "your, " and "yours" to find the parts of the Olivet Discourse that would be SOON fulfilled that His own Apostles would face (i.e., in the First Century A.D.), and the rest would be about the more distant future, such as in His Second Coming.

So, Matthew 24:23-27 are a case of Yeeshuwa` speaking DIRECTLY TO HIS APOSTLES and His prophecy was fulfilled in the First Century A.D.! Only verses 24 and 27 themselves are peering off into the more distant future. And, they DID have to contend with several who made the claim of being the Messiah, even until Simon Bar Kokhba led his revolt in 132-136 A.D., and the Romans had had enough. Simon also claimed to be YHWH'S Anointed One, God's "Messiah" or God's "Christ."

You falsely teach Jesus Is going to be in a human body on this earth, your claim is false 

After watching your postings for several months, they are so far away from christian orthodoxy and not to be taken seriously

[Retrobyter]

17 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

You falsely teach Jesus Is going to be in a human body on this earth, your claim is false 

Shalom to you, brother and friend @truth7t7.

There's nothing false in this teaching from Scripture, and He ALREADY IS a human body, even after being raised from the dead! He SAID, He was "flesh and bones," and gave His hands and feet for the disciples to TOUCH AND FEEL to prove it to them!

He already gave Yochanan ("John") the information that those in the First Resurrection are goint to "live and reign with Him upon the earth!" He was PROMISED by the two men arrayed in while clothes that He would be coming back, just as they saw Him leave!

How much more evidence do you need? He is NOT "the antichrist!" He's the REAL CHRIST! the REAL MESSIAH OF GOD FOR ISRAEE! He's the REAL ANOINTED ONE TO BE KING AND SIT UPON DAVID'S THRONE!

It was also the same "John" who wrote 1 John 5:1:

1 John 5:1 (KJV)

1 Whosoever believeth that JESUS IS THE CHRIST is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat (God the Father) loveth him also that is begotten of him (the Son of God, Yeeshuwa` or Jesus).

I love Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus") with all my heart! I KNOW He shall be back and reign in Israel forever and ever!

I Love His Father - MY Father - who is EVERYWHERE in this Universe and beyond, because He is the CREATOR of every last subatomic particle in this vast Universe of countless galaxies of countless stars, and has NAMED THEM ALL! He holds all things together with His power!

17 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

After watching your postings for several months, they are so far away from christian orthodoxy and not to be taken seriously

Really? Don't you know how far afield "christian orthodoxy" has changed down through the last 2,000 years?! There's been a HUGE, dynamic, paradigm shift in the terminology that "christian orthodoxy" uses, especially in their liturgy and rituals!

"Orthodoxy" is defined this way:

'Orthodoxy (from Ancient Greek ὀρθοδοξία (orthodoxía) 'righteous/correct opinion')[1][2] is adherence to correct or accepted creeds, especially in religion.[3] Orthodoxy within Christianity refers to acceptance of the doctrines defined by various creeds and ecumenical councils in antiquity, but different Churches accept different creeds and councils. SUCH DIFFERENCES OF OPINION HAVE DEVELOPED FOR NUMEROUS REASONS, INCLUDING LANGUAGE AND CULTURAL BARRIERS. Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy are sometimes referred to simply as "Orthodoxy". In some English-speaking countries, Jews who adhere to all the traditions and commandments as legislated in the Torah are often called Orthodox Jews. Sunni Islam is sometimes referred to as "Orthodox Islam".'

When a figure is "orthogonal" in mathematical terms, it means that it uses "right angles" to the base of the figure.

I submit to you, that ALL such "orthodoxy" are not only "OPINIONS of what is right," but are HUMAN "opinions," as well! Human beings are flawed because of sin and because of the consequences of sin, namely death and decay. Even a "living language," such as English or French or German or Russian, are constantly CHANGING with the changes found in human cultures and people groups. It's important for people to understand that "change" is not always for the better! Sometimes, it is better, such as in new technologies and innovations. Sometimes, it makes things WORSE! And, that is more frequently true when it comes to changes made from the absolute truth of God's Word - the TRUE "orthodoxy" of Scripture - without the interjection of human opinion.

Creeds are invented as "stop gaps" to the decay of Christian teachings, but they are NOT Scripture! They are opinions to which the MAJORITY will adhere, but who but God can say whether they are TRUE TO SCRIPTURE?! See, the problem with creeds and ecumenical councils is that these are simply a consensus of human opinions, and every human being is susceptible to the SAME PROBLEMS WITH SIN! The CORRECT conclusion is that "the majority is NOT always right!"

[Anne2]

52 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Really? Don't you know how far afield "christian orthodoxy" has changed down through the last 2,000 years?! There's been a HUGE, dynamic, paradigm shift in the terminology that "christian orthodoxy" uses, especially in their liturgy and rituals!

"Orthodoxy" is defined this way:

'Orthodoxy (from Ancient Greek ὀρθοδοξία (orthodoxía) 'righteous/correct opinion')[1][2] is adherence to correct or accepted creeds, especially in religion.[3] Orthodoxy within Christianity refers to acceptance of the doctrines defined by various creeds and ecumenical councils in antiquity, but different Churches accept different creeds and councils. SUCH DIFFERENCES OF OPINION HAVE DEVELOPED FOR NUMEROUS REASONS, INCLUDING LANGUAGE AND CULTURAL BARRIERS. Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy are sometimes referred to simply as "Orthodoxy".

Is this a claim of agreement with one or another concerning a specific doctrine? "have" developed, vs "had" developed? 

52 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

I submit to you, that ALL such "orthodoxy" are not only "OPINIONS of what is right," but are HUMAN "opinions," as well! Human beings are flawed because of sin and because of the consequences of sin, namely death and decay.

The Churches however did not consider them opinions. From what I have read, rejection occurred because it violated a previous council in their opinion, which could not be done. So big difference of the tone of what seems to be presented.

This is what the councils understood themselves to be doing.

Invocation of the Holy spirit at the counsels..

Ac 15:25  It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Ac 15:28  For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
 

Therefore to oppose a latter council because it appeared to contradict an earlier council was serous business.

Just saying. Not advocating agreement etc. Just what they saw themselves as doing. Ecumenism among These Churches is quite distinct because of this.

Language barriers developing among them is as you said a very prominent idea, as misunderstandings of each other. As they were presiding under the Holy spirit no "innovations" could develop in their eyes. 

 

Edited April 30 by Anne2

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Oh sure, Zerubbabel didn't return and build the 2nd temple, where God gave instruction for animal sacrifice for sin as seen in Ezekiel Chapter 43, your not going to change the subject in diversion from the topic Ezekiel Chapter 43 is the 2nd Zerubabbel temple built in 536BC prior to the Cross of Calvary

CHANGE the subject?  NO, I am not going to change the subject.  

I believe the prophecy in Daniel has mostly come to pass and the 2nd temple was built.  

But Isn't Zerubbabel’s temple much smaller, and less elaborate with a BUNCH of features 'missing' as to what we are given in Ezekiel?  

When you read...

6  The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times  7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever  8  The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.


Do you believe they are perfect as the Holy Spirit gives us?  If so, then how is it possible for US, to disregard the huge discrepancies between we see between the two of them?   

 

Peter
4  To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6  Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7  Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

EZEKIEL 47  do you believe this to have been of the 2nd Temple?  If so, what book can I go purchase that speaks of it and where did it go and when?  



 3  And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles. 4  Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins. 5  Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over. 6  And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river. 7  Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

8  Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.  9  And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. 10  And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. 11  But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

12  And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

EZEKIEL 47  do you believe this to have been of the 2nd Temple?  If so, what book can I go purchase that speaks of it and where did it go and when?  

 3  And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ancles. 4  Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins. 5  Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over. 6  And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river. 7  Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.

8  Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.  9  And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. 10  And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. 11  But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.

12  And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

Ezekiel Chapter 47 & 48 Is The Eternal Kingdom, Dont Be Deceived

Seen In Ezekiel Below Is (The Eternal Kingdom) Same River And Tree Of life, Same Fruit On The Tree, Same Leaves Of The Tree For Healing/Medicine, Same Gates Of New Jerusalem With The Names Of The 12 Tribes Of Israel

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Ezekiel 47:12KJV

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Revelation 22:1-2KJV

1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

(The Eternal Kingdom)

Eternal "New Jerusalem"

Ezekiel 48:31KJV

31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

Revelation 21:12KJV

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Edited May 1 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

20 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom to you, brother and friend @truth7t7.

There's nothing false in this teaching from Scripture, and He ALREADY IS a human body, even after being raised from the dead! He SAID, He was "flesh and bones," and gave His hands and feet for the disciples to TOUCH AND FEEL to prove it to them!

Jesus maintains a glorified body of flesh and bone, he sits presently at the right hand of the father

Your claim of a "Human Body" is false, Jesus won't be found any place upon this earth, Jesus returns in the heavens in fire and final judgement (The End)

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Edited May 1 by truth7t7