Christ's kingdom will never be physically on this earth

[kwikphilly]

If God Gave me a Vision of something that was going to take place in a future time, hundred of years into the future most assuredly I'd have to describe those things unfamiliar to me,things I've never seen before to the things I am familiar with and can compare them to

So when I read Johns description of locusts with human faces I can consider they might be soldiers with helmets and suited in swat type uniforms but not literal insects as they may have looked to John or a representation of intelligence ,creatures with an appearance of deception....there are many ways to interpret visions

His descriptions of what he saw and heard must have been mind blowing to a man from that time period - can you imagine living in ancient times & seeing helicopters flying? Their WINGS sounded like the noise of chariots!

So ,as for me I do believe Scripture in a literal sense for the most part - and I really could see a giant chain wrapped around that hideous serpent of old and a pit opening up out of nowhere in the same way through indirect observation using the EHT has captured images of Sagittarius A..... Invisible things does not mean they do not exist,only our eyes have not seen

Just some thoughts ❤️

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, Jaydub said:

Your not making sense to me, you yourself right here are taking the symbolism of chapter 13 and giving it a physical meaning. Chapter 13 says the beast has 7 heads he looks like a leopard and has feet like a bear and a mouth like a lion. This is symbolism, that you gave a physical meaning to. To me you didn't pick a good example of what is to be taken literal

A future literal human man, simple, clear, and before your eyes

(The Number Of A Man) (His Number)

Revelation 13:18KJV

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Edited Monday at 05:42 AM by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, Jaydub said:

 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 

I like that you wrote, there is none in Revelation 20. 

Just look at these first two sentences, Do you think John saw and angel with a physical key? Do you think the angel had a physical great chain? was a spiritual being going to be tied with a physical chain or be thrown in a physical hole?

Was this a physical dragon or a  physical serpent? No these are symbolic imagery. We know that these symbols have  a literal meaning and that is what we are to do, find the literal meaning of these passages. Lets look at the end of sentence two 

Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. Do you believe that the angel took that key and opened a lock on a door over a great hole in the ground? and bound Satan up with a physical chain and through him in it. This is all symbolic, so why would we think the thousand years is literal? I have seen people on these  forums say, it may not be exactly 1000 years, it may be more, it may be less. That too makes it symbolic if it is not exactly a 1000 years

psalm 50:10  

for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.

Is this literal? or is 1000 hills a metaphor ?

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Don't Be Deceived

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?

2.) Physical Earthly Throne?

3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Many claim there will be a 1,000 year reign of King Jesus because Rev 20 is quite clear that there will be.  I can't imagine what figure of speech or metaphor is being placed on that time frame which is mentioned only 6 times in that chapter.

v.24 is the key.  The "end comes" WHEN He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God WHEN He shall have plut down all rule and all authority and power".

It's real clear.  The "end" doesn't come when He returns to earth.  Only AFTER Jesus delivers up the kingdom WHEN He had plut downh all rule and all authority and power" does the "end" come.

iow, Jesus returns to earth at the 2nd Advent, the resurrection of all believers occurs, He rules the earth with an "iron scepter" for 1,000 years, and THEN, WHEN the nations surround Jerusalem to attack does God fry the whole earth and all the living mortals on it.  THEN the unsaved will be resurrected back into their mortal bodies and attend the GWT judgment, and then cast into the LOF.

The reading of Rev 20 is simple and straightforward.  No need for metaphors or figures of speech, all of which simply allows people to make up whatever they think things mean to themselves.

What is clear in Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15 is that there will be a resurrection of the saved and a resurrection of the unsaved.  And Rev 20 clears up any confusion about WHEN each one will occur:  resurrection of the saved occurs "when He comes back from heaven" (1 Cor 15:23) and the resurrection of the unsaved occurs AFTER the battle of Gog and Magog at the end of the Millennial Reign of Christ.

I Disagree With Your Claims

As was shown, when Jesus returns the end comes, you aren't going to change the scripture presented, when the resurrection takes place mortal becomes immortal death is swallowed up in victory 1 Corinthians Chapter 15

As was presented there will be one future resurrection of all and this takes place on the last day at the Lord's second coming 

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, Luther said:

Nice comparisons.

Luke 17:36-37 KJV
Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

[37] And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
 

In all this time, the churches teach that it's going to be good to be taken. That means you're going to be raptured. No, it doesn't. We are waiting for the Lord to come. After the earth is cleansed those who are alive and remain  will meet Him "in air" ( not in the air, " the" is italicized in the KJV). 

This "air" is at the time/ space  the new heavens and the new earth are being created right before us. It is like we are coming out to meet the Lord, not flying away, floating around while Israel is burning red heifers. 

I Agree, the event of mortal becoming eternal immortal is in the twinkling/blink of an eye, judgement complete eternity begins, lake of fire wicked, New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, for the righteous saved

[FreeGrace]

8 hours ago, Jaydub said:

FreeGrace said:

Yes, there are some metaphorical and figurative language in Revelation, but there is none in Rev 20.

 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 

I like that you wrote, there is none in Revelation 20.

I'm glad that you like what I wrote.

8 hours ago, Jaydub said:

Just look at these first two sentences, Do you think John saw and angel with a physical key?

Of course.  God took John to heaven to SEE future things.  

8 hours ago, Jaydub said:

Do you think the angel had a physical great chain?

Why wouldn't he?

8 hours ago, Jaydub said:

was a spiritual being going to be tied with a physical chain or be thrown in a physical hole?

Who said there was a "physical hole"?  And who cares?  The point is clear;  satan was RESTRICTED from deceiving the population of the earth for 1,000 years.

8 hours ago, Jaydub said:

Was this a physical dragon or a  physical serpent?

Satan has been called a dragon for a very long time.  At one point, he indwelt a physical serpent.  Do you know biblical history?  Starts in Genesis

So you think that just because you balk at a physical chain that binds satan and is symbolic, everything in the sentence is symbolic??  Why would anyone do that?  That is very assumptive.

8 hours ago, Jaydub said:

I have seen people on these  forums say, it may not be exactly 1000 years, it may be more, it may be less. That too makes it symbolic if it is not exactly a 1000 years

Did I ever say "exactly 1,000 years to the minute?"

8 hours ago, Jaydub said:

psalm 50:10  

for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.

Is this literal? or is 1000 hills a metaphor ?

What does Psa 50:10 have to do with Rev 20?  Nothing at all.  Grasping at straws.  Oh, oops.  That would be a metaphor for desperation.  My bad.

Here's the problem with your kind of thinking.  By claiming everything is symbolic, figurative, etc, you can say anything about everything.  And there's no one who can refute any of it.  Except the one who wrote it.  And he died 2,000 LITERAL years ago.

So let's just accept what reads very literally, ok?  Sure, the chain, the lock and seal over the Abyss are OBVIOUSLY not literal.  But just because they aren't, doesn't mean everything in the chapter is not literal.

Why do you have a problem with a literal 1,000 years anyway?  Are the "nations ruled with an iron scepter" also figurative?  

When one goes down that rabbit hole, everything gets cloudy and it means whatever anyone wants it to mean, even when they cannot prove what they claim.

As is your case. Prove that 1,000 years isn't literal in ch 20.

Then, after proving that it isn't, then explain what the 1,000 years "really means".

Thanks.

Here's a clue;  metaphors, figures of speech are OBVIOUS.

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

If God Gave me a Vision of something that was going to take place in a future time, hundred of years into the future most assuredly I'd have to describe those things unfamiliar to me,things I've never seen before to the things I am familiar with and can compare them to

So when I read Johns description of locusts with human faces I can consider they might be soldiers with helmets and suited in swat type uniforms but not literal insects as they may have looked to John or a representation of intelligence ,creatures with an appearance of deception....there are many ways to interpret visions

His descriptions of what he saw and heard must have been mind blowing to a man from that time period - can you imagine living in ancient times & seeing helicopters flying? Their WINGS sounded like the noise of chariots!

So ,as for me I do believe Scripture in a literal sense for the most part - and I really could see a giant chain wrapped around that hideous serpent of old and a pit opening up out of nowhere in the same way through indirect observation using the EHT has captured images of Sagittarius A..... Invisible things does not mean they do not exist,only our eyes have not seen

Just some thoughts ❤️

Exactly!  Metaphors and figures of speech are OBVIOUS to anyone who is serious and objective.  It's when, just because there are a few things that are obvious metaphors, they go overboard and claim everything in the sentence, paragraph and context is the same.  

Thanks for another dose of your great wisdom!

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Don't Be Deceived

Where else would Christ's kingdom be held?  The Bible prophecies that Jesus is the King of the Jews.  And that He will rule the nations with a rod of iron.  Where would that be, if not on earth?  Do you have another place in mind?  If not, then just accept what the Bible says.

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?

2.) Physical Earthly Throne?

3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

This is silly.  So you demand the specific word "physical" to justify what the Bible prophesies?  Nice try.  We KNOW Jesus comes back to earth at the Second Advent.  We know He comes back as KING.  We KNOW He brings with Him all the saints who have already died and are in heaven with Him.  (Rev 19).

We KNOW there will be survivors of the tribulation, in mortal bodies, because ALL the saved people will have received their resurrection bodies "when He comes".  1 Cor 15:23.  So of course the survivors will be mortal humans.  What else could they be?

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

And can you prove any of these assumptions?  No.  The chapter reads quite literal.  The resurrection of martyrs shows this is the singular resurrection that 1 Cor 15:23 speaks of, and is at the second advent.  And the text states specifically that resurrection is the FIRST RESURRECTION, which leaves one more; the resurrection of the unsaved.  Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15 all say there will be a resurrection of the saved and a resurrection of the unsaved, and Rev 20:5 specifically says the resurrection of the saved is the first one.  Then the Millennial Reign of Christ, where He "rules the nations with a rod of iron".  Rev 2:27 - and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to shivers; as I also have received of my Father:

Anyone who reads this verse and denies a literal kingdom over literal people has a big problem.

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

The spiritual realm cannot be seen by mortals, yet the Bible says King Jesus will rule over the nations with a rod of iron.  Why mention a rod of iron if His kingdom is only spiritual and involves only saved people?  Do they need to be ruled by this "rod of iron"?  That sure sounds like the King will be ruling over unruly people, who need that rod of iron.

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Revelation 20:1-6KJV

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This verse notes the FIRST RESURRECTION, which will be all believers, per 1 Cor 15:23.

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This verse specifically says the resurrection of the saved is the FIRST one, so obviously there will be another one, the resurrection of the unsaved, noted in Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15.

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is obviously for believers only (blessed and holy).  And they shall reign with Christ for 1,000 years.

Paul wrote this:

2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him.  If we deny him, he will also deny us;

What does this mean, if not literal?

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Many claim there will be a 1,000 year reign of King Jesus because Rev 20 is quite clear that there will be.  I can't imagine what figure of speech or metaphor is being placed on that time frame which is mentioned only 6 times in that chapter.

v.24 is the key.  The "end comes" WHEN He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God WHEN He shall have plut down all rule and all authority and power".

It's real clear.  The "end" doesn't come when He returns to earth.  Only AFTER Jesus delivers up the kingdom WHEN He had plut downh all rule and all authority and power" does the "end" come.

I Disagree With Your Claims

You have every right to your disagreement.  But can you prove I'm wrong?

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

As was shown, when Jesus returns the end comes, you aren't going to change the scripture presented, when the resurrection takes place mortal becomes immortal death is swallowed up in victory 1 Corinthians Chapter 15

Actually, I showed (proved) what all the Bible said about when the "end" comes.  It is AFTER full victory by the King.  

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

As was presented there will be one future resurrection of all and this takes place on the last day at the Lord's second coming 

That future resurrection is the FIRST of 2.  The first resurrection will be all believers, per 1 Cor 15:23 and the resurrection of the unsaved will be 1,000 years later.

[kwikphilly]

17 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Exactly!  Metaphors and figures of speech are OBVIOUS to anyone who is serious and objective.  It's when, just because there are a few things that are obvious metaphors, they go overboard and claim everything in the sentence, paragraph and context is the same.  

Thanks for another dose of your great wisdom!

God's Wisdom,His Truth but thank you & Praise Jesus Brother..... 

God INSPIRED Written Word ,Knowledge is Given us just as it was with the Eyes of Understanding through the ordinary men who penned each verse- lest we remember they saw also with a human mind and saw with human eyes.....it is for that we reason TOGETHER,with One HEAD! 

But Scripture Confirms Scripture and Proven Infallible and without contradiction when you study ' in context' .... Isn't that right? 

With love in Christ,Kwik